Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: stuckinthemud on May 25, 2019, 11:19:05 am

Title: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on May 25, 2019, 11:19:05 am
OK, so, I have never covered or backed a bow and I have never worked with bark in any form.  Its Spring and time to harvest some birch bark, first question, is Silver Birch OK? Do I just go for a walk in the woods and pick off bark peeling naturally or do I have to cut out strips - presumably vertical strips so as not to girdle the tree???  Once I have the bark, does it need soaking before use?  Then, I seperate the layers down to a single layer, but, is the bark cut into small rectangles, or long strips, and how exactly do you cover a bow, oh, and hide glue, is it OK for this task?

Sorry to be a helpless newbie about this but all advice is needed and welcome.

Thanks in advance,

Andrew


Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: EdwardS on May 25, 2019, 12:11:10 pm
I'll tell you what I know. 

Yes, hide glue works best.  Some bows are covered with one long strip, some are covered with little squares, some are covered with mosaics.  That's up to the bow's design.  Some cultures soak the birchbark in salt water, some just peel it and put it on.  Birchbark should be peeled from the tree while it's attached.  I don't think that peeling bark is usable, but I'm unsure on that point.  Paper birch is the one I know works, but I'm betting silver birch will work. 

If you get some bark that works, I should be interested.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: PatM on May 25, 2019, 12:51:36 pm
 You only need the freely peeling stuff for a bow. No need to wait for spring since you shouldn't be stripping the bark down to the inner bark anyway.  Trees which are dead and down actually provide the best bark since the bark seems to fuse together better and be more elastic.  The elasticity of the bark varies widely from tree to tree.  Some is very brittle and others may stretch like tape.

 You can put it on in any number of ways.  The easiest is probably in shorter sections slightly overlapped.

 Hide glue is great since you can warm up the bark and glue and re-position and work out air bubbles easier.

 Peeling it apart and leaving it a couple of layers thick is easier to lay it on.  Settle for pieces which are well fused together so it doesn't separate later.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: EdwardS on May 25, 2019, 04:01:41 pm
Thanks for filling in the gaps in my knowledge Pat.  The strokes leave me with holes in my recollection. 
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: Dances with squirrels on May 25, 2019, 04:31:47 pm
It's removed around the circumference of the tree, not vertically. Peeling the outer bark won't hurt the tree as long as some inner bark and all cambium layer is intact.

I stripped bark from a pin cherry log at a sawmill two weeks ago. I had permission. I cut them 2-3" wide and then trimmed them nice and straight and 2" wide when I got home. I then removed much of the inner bark and layed heavy boards on them so they'd stay flat. There's a lot of waste due to how the bark grew in this one. I wish I'd have gotten more.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: PatM on May 25, 2019, 05:30:29 pm
If you were making bark containers or say a quiver you'd want to strip the bark deeper but for just a sinew covering using birch there's no need to take more than what's naturally separating as the tree grows.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 10, 2019, 07:58:54 am
Found a downed stem not too far rotted, peeled this piece; is it what i should be looking for, its thinner than paper?

(https://stuckinthemudsite.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/20190610_1540307280257487678212386.jpg)
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: maitus on June 10, 2019, 09:17:04 am
http://www.atarn.org/chinese/making_chinese_bow/making_bow.htm

Dont use old bark, its not moisture resistant
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: simk on June 10, 2019, 11:00:53 am
the easy way  ;D
https://sagaan.de/birkenrinde/shop/birkenrinde-zum-verarbeiten/birkenrinde-in-platten/ (https://sagaan.de/birkenrinde/shop/birkenrinde-zum-verarbeiten/birkenrinde-in-platten/)
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 10, 2019, 11:19:16 am
Thanks simk but my house is a mile from a large birch wood  and my place of work is surrounded by an even larger birch forest. Maitus, following your advice I tested the sample and ir is waterproof except for the pores but a coat of varnish/acrylic/oil paint would deal with that I should think?
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: PatM on June 10, 2019, 11:44:35 am
You want it more obviously looking like paper strips.   Older  bark is just fine and easily as water resistant unless it is actually almost rotted.  That takes years.  I've salvaged bark from trees down for three years.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 10, 2019, 12:15:03 pm
So is this too thin? I hadn't bothered to trim it to shape as I didnt have scissors with me?  The bark was literally falling to pieces as i peeled it, this is the second layer as the first layer just flaked away,
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: PatM on June 10, 2019, 12:43:07 pm
No, it's just not a good sample.  The good stuff is clear and peels easily into layers.  It should be almost like drywall tape and ideally slightly stretchy when pulled before it breaks in tension.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: Marc St Louis on June 10, 2019, 12:44:24 pm
I wouldn't use bark from a dead tree especially if you have access to live trees.  As Pat says, some trees have elastic bark and others it is brittle.  You should test before putting it on.  The bark can be separated into very thin layers.  I wouldn't use anything thicker than 1/32" thick
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 10, 2019, 01:15:03 pm
Thanks Pat, this sample is transparent, slightly stretchy and about the same thickness as onion skiin or bamboo leaves. I think its Downy Birch (B Pubescens), which is brown barked. Its not pretty to look at but I'm going to paint it. If Pubescens isnt suitable I can keep looking for a fallen silver or paper birch, it wont take long to find something else.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: PatM on June 10, 2019, 04:17:44 pm
The paper varieties of birch produce better stuff.  The thickness you use can often be dependent on how much the bark wants to separate.    Ideally about three to four layers fused together as it often does is likely the best option.

 I have used a single layer though and let it basically function about like a layer of paint with the cosmetic features inherent in birch.

 I am embarrassed to admit I have so much of it kicking around that I'll grab some to start a fire.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 10, 2019, 11:37:08 pm
Thanks Pat, thats all really usefull, I think I'll spend a little while looking for something  bit better. 
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 13, 2019, 09:38:27 am
Couldn't find anything fallen and not rotted so I went with the new option; have cut plenty of 3-layer thick bark pieces, some larger pieces about 8" square, some smaller strips. So, what's next?  Do they need to be dried and if so, do I need to soak them before applying to a bow, also, which way up and which way around are the strips placed and do you sand them smooth or leave the finish natural? Thanks again
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: PatM on June 13, 2019, 03:49:21 pm
You can just shingle them on in strips however you like.    Bows covered in bark use every possible configuration from across the limb through diagonal or perfectly straight.  Using separate shorter pieces allows  you a bit less stress in trying to get the whole piece stuck properly at once.

 No real need to dry it because you add water based glue anyway and the bark itself is pretty water resistant.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 14, 2019, 12:42:40 pm
Thanks Pat, looks like I'm all set, just need my other half to go out for the day so I can crack on!
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 21, 2019, 04:00:22 am
So I got an hour in the workshop and covered the bow, sinew side only, with 2 inch wide strips slightly overlapping and gelatin glue. I tied them down to dry and most are on pretty tight but one has an air pocket,  any advice on what to do, should I warm up the patch and tie it diwn or lift it and re glue it, or push some glue under and strap it down?
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: NorthHeart on June 21, 2019, 06:00:36 am
Ive heard of this, but never understood it. Usually i peel the bark off when making a bow ;D What benefit does adding birchbark over sinew (or over any bows back) provide? Is it done for performance, protection from the elements, or simply aesthetic reasons? Would you ever want to back a self bow with birchbark?
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 21, 2019, 07:24:36 am
Birch bark has a high level of tar, which you can boil out of it under the right conditions, and so is waterproof but as it is stretchy it doesnt tear apart as the bow bends
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: PatM on June 21, 2019, 07:59:55 pm
The best thing to do is make absolutely sure you are chasing out any bubbles as you go.  If you kind of roll on  the pieces you can generally eliminate the air as you proceed.    You can poke a pin hole in any obvious pockets and press the bark down but the glue still needs to be damp and activated to do this.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 22, 2019, 07:11:29 am
I lifted and re-glued a couple of strips I wasn't happy with and used the tip of a hot iron (sh! don't tell!!  >:D) on an air bubble in a strip that was otherwise on really tight, it all seems OK now.(https://stuckinthemudsite.files.wordpress.com/2019/06/20190622_1558113088120452078620735.jpg)

Is it a good idea to bind the ends with thread or sinew? 
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: NorthHeart on June 23, 2019, 08:04:38 am
stuck-what are we seeing here...is this a very short bow with horn tips?

Obviously i can't comment to birchbark, but i am an "over-binder" of bows in general.  This can be seen on my recent sinew backed horn and wood bows.  Too much time and materials to take any chances, especially if there is an iffy spot here or there.

I really look forward to seeing some more pics of your bow when its done.  You have kind of got me interested in trying this. :OK
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: stuckinthemud on June 23, 2019, 09:29:30 am
Its a little angry bow, you could say its quite cross!! >:D.  Horn tips v-scarfed into yew and sinew bow, somewhere in the region of 110#11" draw, 29" ntn, 2" wide at centre, 1" at tips.
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: DC on June 23, 2019, 11:46:34 am
Angry, cross, clever ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: birch bark covering over sinew, how do you do it?
Post by: NorthHeart on June 23, 2019, 03:52:26 pm
OH! I get it, i get it.  Even more cool, cant wait to see her done up. :OK