Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Russ on February 27, 2019, 05:22:50 pm
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This is my first bow and I could use some tips on where to remove. Also what's the benefits of a bendy handle. Also do I have one? Thanks for any tips you have! :BB
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right limb looks like it need more taken off to get it bending like the left
and if you could hang a white background on the stair rail, it would be easier to see from a pic.
how much weight is on your longstring to make it bend like that, and what are you shooting for as a finish draw weight and length?
a bendly handled bow would not have a block glued on, but one benefit to having a bendy handle would be ease of learning for a first timer.
can you also post a pic of the width profile?
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My finished draw weight i want to be 30-50# but it's my first bow so im not picky. I dont know the weight im putting on it but I don't think it's a lot but it's already taking set :'( so im being careful. Here's the pics.
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This Is the left
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Here's the right
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the thickness are hard to evaluate from a photo, that's where you have to get a feel for how much the stave is bending compared to the weight you are putting on it and how much the wood will ultimately take.
you could hang something on the string to get the deflection, and weight it on a scale?
the width profile would be a photo as seen from ahead or behind showing your width tapers, sorry for being confusing.
where is it taking the set, a few inches out on the left limb? sometimes it helps to trace the stave or board before starting in order to have a reference to lay the bow alongside to be able to see just where easily
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the set starts about 3 inches from the limb tip and raises up about half an inch
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You can get a luggage scale from the big box stores for under 10 dollars. Lots of us use them. It really helps to hit a target weight and to avoid over drawing.
Also, make a tillering gizmo. It will help you learn to see stiff spots.
Also also get the transition on the fades more gradual so that it isn't so blocky. It will look better and be less likely to break or pop off.
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Without a scale and a rule it's all guess work and feel... which is fine.
But you don't develop the feel until you've made a few, so a scale is a good idea.
Del
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Ok I understand the weight and the handle. Im starting and where should i remove?
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My opinion, the bend isn't too bad. Your immediate issue is the transition from handle to fade. It needs to be a seamless sweep from one to the other. No sharp angles. It appears as though you glued the handle on? If so it will more than likely pop off as the handle will bend some. Glued on or not, the principal is the same. Carry the transition into the working limb as a gentle sweep. This is an area that flusters a lot of folks, but it needs to be right or else the gremlins will latch on to that angle and wreak havoc. Better to glue on a handle piece that is 9 or 10 inches long and feather it out gradually to 0 thickness. I would fix that first. When the handle pops, it could spell disaster otherwise.
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Ok I will work on the Handle today
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I think that will be time well spent. Again this is an area that gives people fits. Even some more experienced guys struggle with that transition. Look at a bunch of pics from other guys bows and pay particular attention to that area. Get that handle right and then work on the tiller. Your taking set already so you may have an issue somewhere. Take a pick of the of the front profile. What are the dimensions of this bow. Width at the fade, width of the working limb at various intervals? You are likely just very narrow for this piece, but measurements will identify that.
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I think your questions were answered except for the bend in the handle question.
You added a glued handle so I would not get the handle bending o it may pop off.
One of the benefits, however, is that it is easier for the beginner to tiller.
Anyway, check my site.
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Jawge
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You dont have any fade transition coming out from the handle.
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I woulds be tempted to cut off the riser and start again with one about 12" long. You can always remove wood.
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I am going to take the handle off this afternoon and start over with a 12" piece as you suggested. what wood should I use? should I work it with a rasp or cut the fade and then rasp or sand it?
Slimebob, I will try to answer your questions this afternoon as I am away from home. Thanks!
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As long as both mating surfaces are perfectly flat and smooth, you can use about any wood. You may want to consider several laminations, with the first couple being quite thin and bendable (1/8 -1/16 inch). alternating colors of wood can look really nice, and if each lamination can bend a little, there is less chance they will pop off. Here is an example of what I am talking about:
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=21080.0 (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=21080.0)
Just make sure all your gluing surfaces mate perfectly, then glue up with a high quality wood glue, or high quality epoxy, or even a high quality SuperGlue (CA glue)
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Your really new to this I see. First, welcome to the nut house. You have the desire and that is the first requirement. Secondly you need as much knowledge as you can glean from the works of others. TBB I is a great place to start in my opinion. Some of the data is dated but all in all, lots of wisdom. Ditto this forum. You have the luxury of interactive learning from some of the best bowyers around. Thirdly, you need the empirical part of the equation....the actual hands on practical doing it part. The reading and learning from others part is invaluable, but the hands on experience, learning by experimenting is where it's at. You've taken the plunge so let's see if we can teach you to swim as you struggle to tread water. Let's look at those measurements and see if your design is adequate for what you are trying to accomplish. Cangrats on the doing part. Your building a bow while others are just dreaming about it!
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this is the design that I used and its the same on both sides. I kept the parts that don't taper in the same length but I trimmed the bow down to 6 ft. Also the TBB ... where can I get it. I am short on money and my library doesn't have it. do you know anywhere I can get all 4 volumes for a cheap price? Thanks!
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Is it Redoak?
1.5 inches wide at the fades?
72 inches tip to tip? (the plan calls for 67.5 inches??? You trimmed it to 6 feet? Not sure I follow)
I will loan you my copy if you will return it once your done. If your good with that pm me your mailing address.
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what is your narrowest width at the handle and how wide is it at the widest?
if you have shown us in the pic, it's hard to tell which pic may be thickness and which pic may be width
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Here's me new handle. It's white pine. Sorry about the bad pic.
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Can’t see much, but sounds like your headed in the right direction.
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I got the rough shape of the handle. Im planning to glue wedges inbetween the space in the Handle fades and then sand it perfectly (or as close as I can get it) in line wth the bow.
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I'm not too excited about those wedges. How far is it between the red lines?
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It's 8 3/4"
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Got to get a good glue line. I don’t know about any kind of shim working. Sand and get a good joint. Might be able to clamp it enough??? I would try it anyway. Anything short of a good glue line will pop loose I suspect. I’m a stave guy so I don’t glue on a lot of handles, so maybe someone will come up with another solution. But I don’t believe that will hold.
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Thanks!
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I would do this(second red line) blending the handle in. I know it was me that told you to remove the old riser and I apologise for that :-[ :-[but I didn't know that the belly wasn't flat and that you would end up with those gaps. Sorry about that. If you make your handle 3 1/2" it might gain you a bit.
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Thanks DC! And your fine. I never liked that handle anyway. ;D
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Be really careful blending the handle in and don't remove any wood from the bow in the spots marked red.
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Ok thanks DC
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Im here now
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That looks good. It's just the fades and where they blend into the bow that's important.
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All done with some minor tweaks to do later on!
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Scoop the ends so that it blends in seamlessly.
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Kinda like this
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All done with the handle. I can't feel any bump on the line where the line meets the red oak
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Yep like what DC says, you need more transition in the fades; that is a nice gradual long even slope. I have built a few bows like that not sure what I was thinking but totally ruined an otherwise good bow. ::) I have cheated and glued on a thin lam on the back longer than the handle and its worked fine.
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So that wont work?
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no telling until you start to bend it some
what is the furthest you have bent the bow previous?
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only as much as you see on the first picture. I dont know the exact measurements and if you need them I will try to get them but my long string snaped as I dont have the right string materials yet.
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It looks pretty good. The key to not having the handle pop off is the thickness of the wood you made the bow out of. If the board you started with is too thin it will bend and can pop the handle off. Yours looks pretty good so as long as you have a good glue joint you should be OK. So back to tillering. Stay away from the 6" next to the handle until you get it bending some just to see how the fade area is working.
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Ok thanks guys for being patient and helping me! You guys have really helped me with this bow!
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It appears to me that you will be thin in the fades. Hard to tell from the pics. I agree, that that looks better for sure, but if your thickness isn’t adequate in the fades it will bend there. Bending there is a problem. But, if you keep it lite weight you might be ok.
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thanks for all your help guys but the bow snapped at a hinge by the tips. :'( :'( well you live and you learn ;D ;D ;D! I'm actually surprised it didn't snap sooner and I'm actually not upset because now I know I can make a better bow! thanks again!
(--) (--) (--)
Russ
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Well that sucks. But, it was just a stick and there are lot's of them. Advice....find the best piece of wood you can get your hands on. I prefer staves, but boards are easier to come by. Either way, the better material you start with the better your chances of success. With a pipe straight stave of good quality you have some latitude for making a few mistakes and still come out with a shooter. I will offer it one more time...if your interested in borrowing my TBB I, I will send it to you. Let me know. I borrowed my first copy. I devoured it as I was working on my first one. It.s yours to read if you want it. Good luck with that next stave!
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Too bad but it happens. I was looking at the plans you used. it shows the limbs as being 5/16" thick at the tips and 5/8"(I think) at the fades. How close to that did you go when you were roughing out? If you tried to go too close you won't have any wiggle room. If you use that drawing again rough out to at least 1/8" bigger and then reduce it as you see it bend. The bend is the key, not the dimensions. They are a rough guide.
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dc, good point. I am a bit confused by those plans. it looks like a pyramid limb with a short parallel section coming out of the fades. once the limb goes pyramid, the thickness should not change much...or looking at it another way, if the limb tapers from 5/8 to 5/16, I would expect to see a more parallel width limb.
are you sure that is a proven design DH?
would anyone with experience tillering a similar bow care to comment? I don't have a bow with a width profile like that on hand to compare
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PM sent SLIMBOB
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Got the PM ....and the flu. I will get to the post office manana.
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sorry to hear that SLIMBOB. Hope you get well soon! Also thanks again for letting me borrow the TBB!
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Glad to do it. Lot's of really good basic principals covered in TBB I. I would bet I have read it a half dozen times, maybe more. Understanding those basics let you put them into practice as you go.