Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: piotref1 on June 24, 2018, 01:05:56 pm
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Hello!
I've managed to find time to try my hand at childhood dream and to make a proper bow.
My questions are:
1. Are any of those usable? Even if it would be difficult task for first timer.
2. I'm a bit confused.. what type, shape etc of bow should I choose for first project. Open to suggestions!
3. I know that spalted wood is partially rotten/infested with fungi but.. I love the looks of it. Can it be used as a whole or decorative pieces?
4. Did I manage to ID the tree? 90% sure about black locust..
I know that I've to make tiller tree and get it placed somewhere but most important part is to know if they are even usable. If not.. They gonna make some nice canes. Especially spalted one.
Wood information
Black Locust:
-Width: 4cm (1,57 inches)
-Length: 124cm (48,81 inches)
American Cherry:
-Width: 4cm (1,57 inches)
-Length: 210cm(82,67 inches) overall, 140cm(55,11 inches) to the brown spot with knot
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The first isn't black locust or cherry I don't think.
Look up George Tsoukalas'(Jawge) website. Lots of good info for a beginner.
Spalted wood is no good for a bow but you might be able to make a riser or tip overlays with it. Depends on how far gone it is.
Where do you live. Might help us with the wood ID.
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I meant to write where I live.. Seems I've forgotten.
I live in Poland and to be more exact around the center of it.
I used Pl@ntNet app to ID trees and black locust came when comparing bark, fruits and leafs..
And will specify a bit. First tree leaves I've sent is what was ID as "American Cherry" by app, on second pic it's the right piece, left is what was ID as Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia).
Will check the website for sure! And thanks for reply ^ ^
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As one newbie to another, remember the k.i.s.s. Principle! Hickory ash, or oak, don't use no green or rotted wood! Opps!, wrong song! (lol). As you will see reasearching the various threads and sites, try a flat bow 66"-68", leaves room to correct screw ups! And don't get in a rush, post lots of pictures of your progress, and the only dumb question is the one you don't ask! These folks have many years experience to draw on, and they will all share it. Make it to one of the gatherings if you can and try to find a bowyer in your region to link up with. Several of the guys on the site are in Europe. Hickory is a great starter wood - save all The cut offs, shavings and chips, and if you really screw up your first try, you can grill a "mean" steak! (lol). Btw, we all seem to have a strange sense of humor! Don't be afraid to use your humor as well! Most of us can't even say "Hello" in Polish! Welcome to PA!
Hawkdancer
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spaliting is very pretty but it can't be used for bending as the black marks are where the wood used to be before the fungus ate it. keep it for the walking canes where it will be both beautiful and useful.
Cherry is a bad choice of wood as it likes to snap with little warning. I would suggest you find some hazel. Find a piece growing very straight. You may have to split a few stems as hazel likes to twist and you can't see the twist in the bark but it makes a great bow, can be forced to dry out quickly and I think it should be easy to find in your region?
As has been said, a flat bow is always the best starting point but 4cm is as bit too narrow, I would suggest 6cm at the centre of the stave as a minimum for a flat bow. 4cm is great for a long bow but they can be more difficult to tiller
Good luck and keep posting!
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It’s been a long minute since I’ve cut any black locust. The bark pic definitely isn’t that and I don’t believe the pic of the leaves and seed pods is either. May be wrong about that, but if memory serves me, black locust has single winged seeds in a cluster, but like I said I may be confusing that with something else. Black locust bark is pretty distinctive though. I think the one with the pods might be honey locust.
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Black locust has a furrowed bark similar to osage and not a smooth bark. The compound leaves look like black locust but the fruit doesn't. Locust is a legume and does have similar fruit but the seeds are more flat and smaller. Google black locust.
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Thanks, Pat.
Here is my site, Piotref1
http://traditionalarchery101.com
Jawge
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I thought that putting different leaves in pic and bark at once.. Will be good idea. For the bark of what I atm call black locust, the spalted one. And sanded the end to get look of rings.
And thanks for information and will try to get more info about the flatbow and such. Will also try to find thicker branch and hope for some good wood. And usable in fairly sensible time.
Thanks for posting link to the site Mr, George! It's gonna be great read and help!
And about savinig shavings... Can always save them up as said for grilling or for other things like starting a forge and such! I'm a person that likes to learn new things.. so yeah blacksmithing too.. one day.
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I thought that putting different leaves in pic and bark at once.. Will be good idea. For the bark of what I atm call black locust, the spalted one. And sanded the end to get look of rings.
And thanks for information and will try to get more info about the flatbow and such. Will also try to find thicker branch and hope for some good wood. And usable in fairly sensible time.
Thanks for posting link to the site Mr, George! It's gonna be great read and help!
And about savinig shavings... Can always save them up as said for grilling or for other things like starting a forge and such! I'm a person that likes to learn new things.. so yeah blacksmithing too.. one day.
Keep calling that one black locust. Ought to be a bow in there.
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Black locust has thorns
even on the log in small saplings and always on newer branches when big
the sapling in the last picture could be BL.
i'd start to seal the ends with glue and let it dry
if you remove the bark now it's easy and lessen the chance of bugs but may speed up too much the drying process causing checks
You may want to put a thin layer of glue on all the log
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Yeap. It had some thorns on the bark. The BL spalted one was a branch that was probably dead for some time. Was hanging from tree and seems like spalting only goes to the darker wood. And as it was dead branch and lately there wasn't even ounce of rain It should be fine.
But will remember for future branches that I get! And would a thick layer of paste wax work instead of glue?
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And would a thick layer of paste wax work instead of glue?
It probably will. I often use paraffin. It's only use is to reduce moisture exit from ends and promote a more uniform drying
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I'm gonna say ash for the top one.....
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I took a long, long walk.. From what I saw and could identify:
-Norway Maple,
-Red Oak,
-White Oak,
-Rowan,
-Black Locust,
-Poplar,
-Birch,
-Black locust.
But the only problem would be that it's all nice and green trees. Getting into bow making probably will need to wait till it's seasoned. Will give a shot with what was ID as ash and tomorrow get more pictures of those trees for comparison.
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It can be an anxious time waiting for wood to dry enough for making a bow[been there at one time myself] and I can tell you like to make the best of things and don't like to waste things either.Good sound attitude.
If the anxious time is too much you can try reducing and taking it into a dryer 50% humidity enviornment.While accumulating more wood for future bows.Bows can conservatively be made time wise of less than 2 months quicker drying as this.It's what I did for the first year myself.
Sounds like you've done your homework on identification etc.I'd just make a bow and see what happens.
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The ash one was from tree that died so will try this one. If it breaks later cuz it was green... Oh well I've got experience from it at the very least ^ ^
During the time it will take wood to dry I will probably learn some woodworking or something else. Or can always make a good shave horse or tillering tree during that long time.
And about that part
I can tell you like to make the best of things and don't like to waste things either.
That's true. With wood you can at least make fire if you mess up, put sausage on stick and have soemthing to eat.
And during walk I found something worthy of being warbow.. It even bent to shape of one and it's oak! Why make mere small bow when you can go bigger?
Let's end with some more serious thing than a silly joke :P I doubt the bark will give enough information about tree.. But maybe. It's dead tree and broke high enough that would be usable for something. But as you shouldn't take everything you can from forests I want to try to ID it.
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Once a person gets addicted to this bow making it can take you to places you did'nt imagine in the beginning.Many times the same bow wood will make excellent split timber arrow shafts also.The poplar,oak,& birch just to name a few.
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That one arcing in the pic might give several reflexed staves an a lot of arrows, if handled properly.
Take what you need and use what you take! Good philosophy! Btw, what is the appropriate greeting in Polish? Formal and informal?
Hawkdancer
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So.. I've got probably nice find. White oak, thick and long tree that fallen. Few branches that could be i think usable. Easiest for me to post it through imgur than to make few posts and resize them down.
http://imgur.com/a/4He1FO5 (http://imgur.com/a/4He1FO5)
For the ease.. My question is, how long should I cut it? 2meters; 78.74 inches?or smaller or bigger? For reference I'm around 190cm tall: 74. 8 inches or in more proper measurements 6 feet and 2 inches.
And when should one split log? Before drying, after? And I think last question will be at what width to do so.
About greetings:
Hello =Witam.
Good morning = Dzień dobry.
Good evening = Dobry wieczór.
For informal it would be "Hej" or "Cześć".
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If it is a whitewood such as oak that is fallen on its own dead in the woods, it will most likely not be good for bows. If the tree just blew over and is still alive it should be ok. White woods succumb to decay quickly even if the damage isn’t visible.
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This one.. Was standing and didn't give easily. Though bark has few holes . Should I debark it and then paste wax the whole thing? After cutting it with hand saw i'm.. too tired to find calipers and check width. It's way more than the ones in first post though..
The fallen one is oak but it was windy lately and for this one it gave at the roots. Even if it won't make good bow, experience of shaping and what not will be the same with good wood right?
And thanks for all replies ^ ^
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Start cutting live wood. There are very few woods that can be used if it's dead. Osage and Yew are the only two that I know of. Use all that dead wood to heat your shop :) It will just bite you if you try to make a bow from it.
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I will cut some live ones buy first things first those ones :p
As I never used draw knife before they gonna make great practice material.
And for live ones. Before they dry this gonna take up time.
Also.. Don't all failed projects heat up houses or workshops? ;D
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The thing I'm afraid of is that you will learn some bad habits from working with dead wood. You don't know how long this wood has been dead so you don't know how much decay is there. You won't learn as fast with inconsistent wood.
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True.. So far what I've got from green wood is Cherry that i've got also today. It even had cherries on it! But they were sour even with nice red color... >>
Oak I will say not so long. It's heavy, not dry and some of the branches weren't snapping cleanly from the main trunk. And at the bottom of it there were new tiny oaks coming from main stem.
I will just try for now to gather more and use what I've gathered from deadwood to make sure I can sharpen draw knife and use it in a way that it won't dig into wood when I don't want it to.
I tried using it on some knotty larch... Results weren't great. Larch I've got is of the type that is used to make alcoves in garden. Thicker beam type.
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I've managed to get my hands on one of black locust tree. Got four logs but.. Should I split them? And if yes now or after they dry? Asking because saw different informations when googled.
I didn't have time to seal ends after cutting them and lost my wax somehow.. Os they started cracking..
Pics are from one end of each log. One is 51 inches long. Other 3 are around 79 inches long.
http://imgur.com/a/ie0qiAn
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As I could get on PC just now I've added pics to post. Should I be looking for anything when splitting? I doubt that it can make more than 2 staves each log.
Asking because on the 3rd log there are cavities so probbaly not gonna split very nicely...
Black Locust. Cut on 3rd of this month.
Log #1: 9.5cm x 12cm ; 3.75 inch x 4.75 inch ; 130cm/51" long
Log #2: 16.5cm x 12cm ; 6.5 inch x 4.75 inch ; 200cm/78" long
Log #3: 10cm x 10.5cm ; 4 inch x 4 inch ; 200cm/78" long
Log #4: 9.5cm x 12cm ; 3.75 inch x 4.75 inch ; 200cm/78" long
I guess it's gonna be one of the last questions in this topic as on tuesday gonna start making shaving horse from the plans posted in here.
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Red and white oak are good bow woods but they must be cut when the tree is living. Take fo the bark and make a bow.
piotref1.
Black locust can be used if the tree is dead. For this wood you should remove the sapwood and make the back heartwood.
A good way to start is to cut a 2-3" sapling of white oak and follow the directions on my site for a sapling bow.
While you are waiting make a board bow. I assume you have red oak boards handy but I don't know.
There are buildalongs on my site.
Jawge
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I'm reading through Your site Mr George in free time. Good read ^ ^
All of the boards I found are pine or other variation. I will wait for this locust to dry and in meantime use some hazel.
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A big stick of white oak is probably the easiest one for beginners like you and me.