Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Swampman on April 20, 2018, 09:26:58 am
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I have an ERC stave that is 71 inches long and there are no knots on the back. That is right, NO knots. There is one knot that was dead center of this stave and you can see that in my pictures below. I have the stave roughed out and ready to floor tiller. It is roughed out to 1 1\2 inches wide except for the last 7 inches. The stave does have a bit of propeller but I plan to leave that.
I planned all along to back this with whitetail rawhide as I know ERC has a reputation as a heart breaker. However, as I look at this stave I just have this feeling that I should attempt to see what I can do unbacked. I p!an to get 60 pounds at 28 inches from this stave
My question for you experience with ERC is, What would you do? I am still leaning towards backing but just want opinions.
Thanks.
(http://i.imgur.com/GkVSaRl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/DGTEZ8p.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/JwCa3gk.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nTxan6Q.jpg)
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What is ERC?
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Eastern Red Cedar. Otherwise known as Juniper.
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Thanks
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I'm an admirer of ERC bows and that type of wood in general.Congrats on your good score.That wood is a temptress that's for sure.I would go with your gut feeling on this one.
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Even if I broke a bow of nice ERC I'd save what I could of the broken pieces for handles and buttons on knife handles. I have one small piece of ERC. A 5/8x3x8" with two saw kerfs and a chunk cut out.
It's beautiful stuff. It's not real common in my area.
Bjrogg
PS the only place I've used it was on a bow is the handle.
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If you have some cut off you could make a unbacked mini bow for testing,aka bend test.
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One of the nicest ERC bows I ever saw and shot was all sapwood. It was an ELB style bow.
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Pat's right the sapwood is great stuff.
With a clean back like that I'm not sure rawhide will make a whole lot of difference. If it's gonna blow, it's gonna blow. A thin coarse of sinew however will take some stress off the back and make that much less likely.
I'd suggest starting with a lot more thickness than you would with other woods.
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Plus one on upenstatenbowyer's comment. I always lean toward wood or bamboo backs on longer bows, but with sapwood that clear and nice I'd sure be tempted to NOT flatten and back it. It's a pretty piece.
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I'd keep it a selfbow and not back it. I don't think it needs backing.
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Thanks for everyone's input. It is helpful.
I would have kept it wider but 1 1\2 inches is all this stave had.
I think I will move forward without backing it. I have two other staves almost like this one so if it blows, I will back the next one. It sure makes my shop smell good when I work on it.
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The first bow I ever made was from ERC; basically knotless, 70lbs at 29 inches, unbacked, 2/3rds heartwood to 1/3rd sap wood ratio, two inches wide at the handle, six feet long, ELB. I knew nothing about preserving the back of a bow, so this one had cuts, dings, and just about every type of violation across the back you could think of. Yes, it broke. At about six inches down from the upper nock and whacked me on the head, but that was after probably 400 or 500 shots. Soon after, I switched to hickory and have had fewer headaches, but, I think, with a bit of luck, you can get away with it unbacked. Just my humble opinion. Good luck. And you might want to invest in a hard hat, just in case. :)
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Just make sure you post lots of pictures. I want to see how it turns out
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Juniper does love sinew it seems. I think Tim Baker would have some insight as to why the go together better than most combos.
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I have been looking at this stave long enough. I finally started tillering it. Below is a picture on the long string. I did not back it. Things should start to get exciting from here.
(http://i.imgur.com/iDhf369.jpg)
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The left limb looks pretty good. The outer 2/3(almost) of the right limb is stiff. Get that right limb bending more evenly. The inner area near the fade is heading for a hinge.
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I can't wait. The suspense is killing me. Please post after making Pat's adjustments.
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If it were mine I would back that beauty with sinew and keep her forever, no question...ERC is a real performer with sinew! I think it benefits more than any other bow wood with sinew... That also depends on design, JMHO....
Don
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(-P
I have some clean ERC also, and I'm having the same debate as you did last year....
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They say that ERC and Sinew are made for one another.
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I'm jealous. I've got lots of sinew. Don't have a ERC stave though. Hope she treats you right.
Bjrogg
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Im hoping to cut some ERC and i can only dream of getting a stave like that!
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Erc is great in compression but not in tension. So backing it keeps the wood fibers from ripping apart on the back of the bow. From what I've read the sap wood is a little better in tension than the heart wood. Sinew is some AMAZING stuff though.
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Only one thing you can do with a stave like that-send it out west for safe keeping. 8). I did a bow out of its out of Utah juniper, which is somewhat different, albeit with some milar qualities. I was still a novice at the time, but even though the tiller isn't perfect, and my sinew job reflected my inexperience, it will take a radical amount of bend, and still hold up. I would have it.
I also have some nice prepared sinew if you want to work a trade.
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After some slow tillering I have this bow tillered to 27 inches. It is pulling 40 pounds at that draw. I have been dealing with a shoulder problem that has slowed me down. I did manage to shoot 2 arrows from this and I am happy with how it shoots. It seems like way more than 40 pounds when the arrow leaves the bow.
(http://i.imgur.com/qm3NJlA.jpg)
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Really nice bend you have there...
Don
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right limb is bending more.. If you want any more poundage back with sinew ... goes with ERC like peas and carrots... less chance of explosion.. when cedar blows it blows violently..gut
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throw away that tillering stick also.. go to cable set up... bow will take much less set and not be stressed so much..gut
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Is it asymmetrical? It's a nice bend but something looks funny. Is the left limb longer?
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it looks great... if the right limb is the top...near perfect for that design. I have some ERC that I cut here on my farm years ago...I also have the best luck with sapwood bows...which stinks since the heartwood is the pretty part. Yours looks like it will be a snappy shooter... congrats! :OK
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Impressive don’t see too many unbacked ERC bows. I know I’m not that good. Well done.
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This bow is not asymmetrical. However it does have fairly significant propeller twist and that causes things to look a little off. It has been messing with me the whole time I have been working on it. According to my gizmo, the bend is even throughout with both tips being a little stiff.
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Bob, the right limb is the top limb.
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Gut, I have another clean ERC stave set aside that I plan on backing with sinew. I wanted to see if I could keep this one together. That remains to be seen as I need to shoot it in. It has been drawn to 27 inches over 100 times in my tillering tree though. Fyi, I use the tillering stick for photos and to run my gizmo along it but I do all the exercising on my tillering tree.
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Bob, the right limb is the top limb.
:OK