Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Hawkdancer on February 28, 2018, 10:20:06 pm
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I need some advise on this! Hickory, 65" ntn, 2+ inches reflex, top limb is on the left. My guess is the middle third of the left limb is too stiff. Still a lot of scraping to do, it is still way over target #s. Pulls about 85# on the tree.
https://i.imgur.com/QV8VMEz_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium
Hawkdancer
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have a look at the picture. you can see where it is bending more in some spots than others pretty clearly. Don't remove wood from those spots. the entire left limb is very stiff. the right limb has a spot in it that should be avoided right at the neck of your gourd in the background. You should also really fade out your fadeouts. I like a tight long string but that is a personal preference.
You have a lot of wood to remove. Go slow. Be careful. DO NOT draw it to any more than you want your final weight to be. DO NOT draw it past seeing an issue with the tiller. Ask the guys on here as many questions as you have.
Msturm
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Take that string off and get the floor tillering done first. Right now you are just creating set. Until those limb tips are moving at least 8-10" on the floor you are not ready for any length string.
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Fades! They should scoop like a half pipe. You've got Ayers Rock happening instead. That curve should blend down into the working limb.
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Time to work the fades, and mark the right limb, and work the floor tiller. The whole fade/handle area is pretty ugly right now! :BB. Thanks,
Hawkdancer
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Unless you want an 85# bow, you shouldn't know its 85# right now. If you want a 50# bow you have drawn it 35# beyond your target, that can make for a mushy feeling 50 pounder in the end.
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I am thinking the same thing as Pearly, don't pull it past target weight. Just the last couple of years I started using the tree more. I like to put it on the tree when it is probably about 30# too heavy. Usually when I go the tree it is pulling 50# at about 16" or so roughly.
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This is a bit off topic, but not too far I hope. I am building a hackberry static right now. I started with a board flat stave and wanted to see how well I can tiller it and keep shape without heat treating. I have never been so careful and cautious with any bow. I used a long string until the bow pulled 45# at 20", a form of the gizmo and watched my draw weight like a hawk. I'm back to 24" now I have only taken about a 1/2" of set. I know for a fact I will lose at least another inch as I near 28". But I'm excited to see what happens in the end. It should make a snappy rig regardless of my limb shape in the end.
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Let us know how it comes out Pearlie.
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There are some buildalongs on my site. Jawge
http://traditionalarchery101.com
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"My guess is the middle third of the left limb is too stiff."
This is almost certainly correct, but a lot more is going on you need to address. It does need more "floor-tillering".
Definitely get on those fades. They are called "fadeouts"for a reason. Next, DON'T pull it to 85 lbs again.
If you aren't confident with floor tillering, you know from the picture where it is too stiff, right? Grab a crayon and mark all those areas. Color em up good! DO NOT mark where it is bending already. Then get your rasp and rasp off all the marks. Finally, scrape off all the rasp marks.
Do this maybe TWICE on the whole stiff limb, then check the bow on the tree again and DO NOT pull it past what you intend it to pull. If you want 50 lbs, pull it with 50 lbs ONLY. After the first time, do only one pass before checking.
Good luck. Hit Jawge's site, you won't be sorry.
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Hopefully, I phrase this correctly. In floor tillering, I have 2" reflex to overcome before bow is straight, then trying to get about 10" limb movement and about 30# over target by "wag"? Is there a difference in floor tiller by pushing on the handle or pulling it? I am pushing because this allows me to get some bend, and I have old, bad shoulders. Trying to follow TBB1 and Paul Comstock's guidelines in design and tiller, I did misinterpret the process and the overweight estimate. I do seem to be gaining more flex in the stiff (upper) limb (-not lip!). Got the fades looking a bit more like fades, but they are still overbuilt on purpose. It is easier to take wood off, than put it back!
Hawkdancer
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Do you have access to a glass longbow (or a finished selfbow) of approximately your target weight? If so, you can practice flexing it to see what floor tiller should look/feel like. Of course, the bow you are tillering will be stiffer since you have weight left to remove, but it might help give you an idea of what you are aiming for.
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I'm getting old too. I couldn't see the bow properly when floor tillering. I bought a 4'x1' mirror and leaned it against the wall. Now I can floor tiller in any position that's comfortable and see the bend clearly in the mirror ;)
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Been using the Osage bow I got from Badger at 46# to compare tiller wt. The old fg flatbow 45# has brush nocks that seem to allow it to twist on a floor tiller. Still got a long way to go, but seem to be gaining bendon the upper limb. Would have to bring the bow into house to use the larger mirror, but that is no real problem, except that the Honey do list may get in the way >:D! Set the long string aside for now(but where I can find it), finger gauged both limbs and will scrape a bit tomorrow while the elk roast is smoking (=)!
Hawkdancer
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I bought a mirror for the shop. Cost $10 Can.
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Off to flea market row! I'm sort of looking for some splitting wedges and an anvil, too
Hawkdancer
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Not sure I'm making progress, but it looks like the tiller is more even. Seems like a lot more scraping to get to the next tiller. Pulling about 45# at this step, the floor tiller seems to getting closer. Any advice is appreciated! There is a big bump on the right limb (lower?) and still need some work on the handle and fades. I have left the back alone. Leveling is done across the handle with a line level.
https://i.imgur.com/w5gOzVl.jpg
Hawksancer
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Hawkdancer, looking a bit better, but........what is your intended draw weight?
Do you understand what PearlDrums and Badger were trying to say? Floor tillering is its own skill, and I didn't get it at first, but ESPECIALLY when drawn on a tree, NEVER pull the bow past the intended draw weight. If you want a 50 lb bow, DON"T PULL IT TO 85 LBS! Attach your longstring and ONLY exert 55Lbs of pressure on that string.
If that bends the limbs ONE INCH, fine! Make whatever adjustments you can see, and/or lighten the limb, but don't pull it farther or harder. If that's not enough bend to help you see anything, keep lightening the limbs SLOWLY until you CAN see. If you don't do this, your bow will suck. It'll take lots of set.
Lots of guys use a spring scale for this. I have an old set of barbell weights I can stack on a bar, the bar has a hook for the string, and my pulley is installed ABOVE my tree so I can stand back and watch the weights pull the string.
Next, I recommend getting a rasp to go with your scraper. One methodical way to remove enough, but not too much, wood is to take the whole belly and mark it up with crayon or pencil. Then RASP off all the pencil. Then SCRAPE off all the rasp marks. Then check for any high or uneven spots. Then check the bow on the tree. Each time you do this sequence will remove a couple pounds of weight. It sounds like just scraping is slow going for you.
Once your limbs are moving 3-4" at the 50 lb pull, you will be able to see better what needs correction. Mark what is stiff, and what is bending. Like before, color in the stiff spots, rasp the pencil away, scrape the rasp marks smooth, feel for high spots or uneven spots, and check it on the tree.
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I am trying to get the floor tiller down pt, comparing to my 46# Osage, and my 45# fg, still not there yet, but I did get the message on the overdraw, and I am trying to watch that closely. My target wt. is 45-50# preferably closer to 45#. Been using pencil mark as a guide, but don't really trust the rasp quite yet at this stage! Thanks.
Hawkdancer
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I'm gaining on it, maybe! Trying to get the weight down to go to the next peg hole, still trying to get a more even bend, but the measurements at the 1/3 marks are very close
https://i.imgur.com/JHVaeUp_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium