Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: bjrogg on February 16, 2018, 07:31:49 am
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I've got this stave I got from Clint at Marshall. It was a belly split and when I chased ring it ended up having two knots one a inie and one a outie almost right next to each other decided to go for it and split the stave between the two cause I wasn't going to get one without a knot. This is the outie split. My real question is.
1 would you remove center of this knot? I'm tempted to "chase a ring" on the center of this knot. Remove the knot with a clean ring for the edge of the hole. Is this do able or am I crazy even to think it.
2 leave alone just take any lose stuff out.
3 is this to close to edge? Is it possible to get a good bow from this?
I'm tempted by number 1. It seems like anything that isn't a full ring inside knot is just extra weight and undependable bow wood. Possibly a mix of 1 and 2. I have everything bending a bit. I don't know the answer to 3 but I'm going to find out.
Bjrogg
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Get it gone, it will give you fits later.
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Anything else risks leaving discontinuities in the grain.
Del
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That exactly what I'm think Pearl. I'm thinking about try some chisels my Dad has some for woodcarving might work nice.
Del it seems like if I just take lose stuff I already have discontinued grain. What knot I would try to remove grain would be going into belly. I'm really just thinking if I could remove the "limb" and leave the support from the trunk that grew around it. Maybe a pipe dream but I'm tempted to try it.
Bjrogg
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Looks like you have a side check there below the knot on the "belly side" pic. It appears to run up into the knot. Some super-duper glue might help.
I've also drilled out knots and plugged them with a hardwood dowel I've either made or bought. Being so close to the edge, is risky with our without nevertheless. You may just have to go with your gut.
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Too bad you didn't lay it out with a little more width there. I think I'd get rid of the knot and continue on.
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Thanks Matt
Pat I really wish it was further away from the edge but that split was the original and I couldn't change where it was. The limb is wider at knot it follows the grain.
Well nothing ventured nothing lost or gained. I went for #1 and think it maybe worked out ok . Still have no idea about numbers 3 but I will give it my best try. Here's what it looks like now.
Bjrogg
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cleaning out the hole did nothing at all toward improving the chance of success. I'd glue in an Osage plug using a gap filling glue. That would help the belly handle compression.
I think the back would be OK.
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Where is the knot on the bow?
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Jim I agree. I'm sure I did nothing to improve chances for success. I think really all I did was get rid of wood that really was undependable and extra weight. I might have a hole in my head as big as the one in this knot but I think the wood that is left is mostly all wood that grew on the trunk around the limb. I have it really close to brace right now. I think I'm going to cut some notches in it and put a string on it when I get a chance. I post results whatever they are.
Bjrogg
Dbar that's the really scary part. It's about 5" out of the fades. Pretty high stress area I'd think. Been toying with the idea of making it a bendy handle and having it about 9" from tip. I'd like it better there.
Bjrogg
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I've done a few .... have had success with most but paid for every shot! Good luck with the build no matter which way it goes. Arvin
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I am concerned, too, as I don't think you left enough wood around the knot. I don't think it matters which option you choose. Jawge
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I like Jim's idea of plugging it up. You could wrap the area with sinew after that, may help hold the area together...
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I understand everyone's concern and I don't really have high expectations for this one. I guess it's like the bad guy in the Dirty Harry movie says I just gotta know. Of course things didn't work so well for him either. I do wish I had more wood around the side of knot but that's what I had to work with. I won't get to it anymore today but I'll let you all know how it goes. Might even try to video this one on the tree. It's bound to be entertaining whatever happens.
Bjrogg
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Not suppose to have sights on a selfbow.
Jus' kiddin', made many bows with holes. John
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I kinda agree with Jawge.... Doesn't look like enough left on the outside.....
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Well I got it to brace and made a string for it. This is right off the vice floor tillering to first time putting a string on. I took a video just in case but actually for first Time on the tree it was pretty uneventful. The knot does want to rotate handle but the bend doesn't look all that bad. Keep in mind this is right from floor tiller and I know left limb is stiff but she didn't blow the first pull.
Right now 35@ 25"
Bjrogg
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Too much bend right at the right fade. don't remove any wood there. Looks like no bend at the knot. May be good to leave that area stiff.
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I agree Jim doesn't need any more out of fade. The knot is actually bending a little but like you said I kept it just a little stiff. She's probably not going to have the prettiest curves around but I was expecting worst. I'm working on a bear hide right now but I'll get back to her. Thanks for replies
Bjrogg
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BJ,
Are you going for more draw length? Or weight? My guess is that it would hold pretty close to where it is, but I don't have any experience with that sort of challenge. Knot the bottom limb? :BB
Hawkdancer
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Hawkdancer I'm not expecting a hunting bow here and I don't think I'll get one. I will probably gain a few inches draw from left limb yet. It's still pretty stiff. I'm pretty close on right. I might get knot bending just a little more and try to relieve a little stress out of the fade but I'm not to unhappy with it for now. It will be fussing around to get tiller as good as I can now. Hopefully gain a few inches and not lose to much weight. Still have handle wide and still toying with idea of shortening and making a 56" bendy handle with knot 9" inches from tip. I think I'd get a nicer bow that way. I'm still working on fleshing a bear hide so it won't be today. I'll have a little more time to think about where I'm going with it.
Bjrogg
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If you can pull this off without it giving you the big blooey, then you deserve to enjoy that sunrise and a good cup of coffee!
I am cheering for you!
Over here.
At a safe distance.
With safety glasses on.
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Ha ha Thanks JW I did shoot a arrow with it at least. I'm still really thinking about making it a bendy. I'm thinking not to many people are going to want to shoot this one.lol.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
Bjrogg
PS Hawkdancer I'd probably put the knot top limb.
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lol JW. :laugh:
I think the bend looks pretty darn good. That's quite a knot! I didn't realize it came that far off the back. Pretty cool if you ask me. ;)
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Yes Jeff it is pretty proud on the back side.
Bjrogg
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You said the knot effects the handle twisting - maybe the forces there are not evenly spread over the limb, I would try to balance that out. Don't touch the right fade. I would allow both limbs to bend more from midlimb to tips.
At least at this stadium I dislike the tiller tree, much better to tiller with a mirror!
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Thanks Simson. I agree that the forces are not even by the knot. I need to study it out some more when I get time. I also agree not to remove any more wood out of right fade and more from mid limb to to tip on left limb. Right has a little reflex and I think it moving plenty towards the tips but could lose a little yet mid limb and possibly by the knot. I noticed it twisting the handle slightly on tree but actually when Hold it in hand I didn't seem to feel it. There is nothing to hold handle from moving on tree. I haven't had time to really play around with it yet but I did get my bear fleshed yesterday so maybe possibly today. Gotta help grandson with his pine box derby car today so we'll see.
Thanks for reply
Bjrogg
PS I like to final tiller in hand with good video I can slow motion and freeze frame. I was kinda thinking like JW on this one.
I felt safer over here
Out of danger.
We're I could safely watch the whole show.
Bjrogg
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Goodfor you, Bj. I am glad you got it that far. Jawge
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Thanks George this is really all just a experiment so far. Anyone have a opinion on shortening right limb and making it a bendy?
Bjrogg
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Well finished up working on the pinewood derby car with my grandson and picked up the holy roller bow again. It was very rewarding working with my grandson. He said he wants to learn how to make bows to. I put pencil marks where I wanted him to file wood block that would evolve into his car. I told him that I used these same tools to make my bows and that I put pencil marks on and filed them off to. Well she still didn't blow. I took her all the way to 37lbs @ 29" and held it there and took picture. I did this several times. Now I'm starting to think I might pike it and make it for my wife. It still pretty long 71" n-t-n
Maybe flip the tips
Here she is she might not have the prettiest curves at the dance but she's using what she's got
Bjrogg
JW
If your over here somewhere.
I think I'm going have a barley pop now.
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Not sure if you can see it way over here in the bean patch across the road and down the creek a ways, but I am beaming with pride for you!
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Im glad it worked out for you BJ. I personally would have probably gotten rid of the knot all together. It would be narrow there but you could make that up in thickness when you tiller it. That being said, it would be a tough call without having the stave in hand to make the decision.
If you pike it try not to take much off. A character stave does deserve some curves though!
Patrick
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I think I can see you JW
Patrick I really thought hard and long about doing that. The limb in the knot didn't come out square. It kinda came out a little sideways. It's like you said one of those staves you just gotta see and have in your hands. I'm thinking I might try a small pike. It would fit my wife better with same weight but shorter draw. Still thinking. Had a friend call that had a HHB in his way. Just got back from getting it.
Bjrogg
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I think the tiller looks awesome. If I were you I would pike 3/4" on each tip, pretty 'er up and call 'er done. ;) (-S
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Thanks Jeff, I'm thinking that's probably what I'll do. I want to at least pike it that much and see how it feels. I actually feel pretty good about the knot now but who knows. It seems to be bending pretty good.
Bjrogg
PS I case anyone is wondering the profile pictures are at bottom of page 2.
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BJ....Nice challenge whooped looks like to me.Nice bend on that stick.You've made bows from every scrap of that stave now ehh???I quess the question is what is your wifes' comfortable draw length and weight?
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Thanks Ed. Yea that's really the question now. I made a kinda poorly tillered bend through the handle Elm bow that she likes to shoot. Her draw is anywhere for 24 to 18 depending on how she's doing. Not the greatest form yet and she hasn't shoot since last fall but she is working on it. Probably her biggest problem is she tends to let her bow arm come back as she's releasing her arrow. She was getting better though and seemed to be enjoying herself. She asked me to help her when I got home at night so that's all good. I think I might just pike it a bit and try for something around 30 @ 24". I'll probably just take it home and let her draw it first. I can always shorten it
. Bjrogg
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You done good on that one BJ. One mans firewood is another’s bow I reckon. I sure wouldn’t have tried that. Well done.
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Thanks Morgan, in this case it might be one ladies bow. Hopefully it's not going to be firewood yet. My wife might clunck me over the head with it if it broke while she was shooting it.
Bjrogg
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Very nice. Looks good. I am glad it has worked out for you, BJ. Jawge
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Shoot it plenty, BJ. That type of failure doesn't always happen the first 100 shots, if its going to at all.
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Shoot it plenty, BJ. That type of failure doesn't always happen the first 100 shots, if its going to at all.
Pearl that's what I'm thinking to. I cut 1 1/2" off each tip. I think it should be close to right for my wife now but I'm going to shoot it a bunch before I let her. I did shape the handle now to so no going to a bendy anymore. I haven't put it on scales since I piked it. It actually shoots nice and the knot that was along side it that's split out makes a nice arrow pass for my lefty wife.
Bjrogg
Thanks George. It's worked so far but I still need to shot the snott out of it. It's hanging with the rest of my shooters now. It really seems to be holding up great but who really ever knows with something like this.
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I shot it about 25x then put it back on tree. I pulled it to 39lbs@26" and it looked like it would go further but I really don't plan on it normally going that far. I shot it another 25 and unstrung it. It doesn't look like it took any set. So far I'm impressed. I do believe the wood that is left is solid wood and it is bending. Time will tell. If it survives I already have a name pick out.
For my wife I think it about right.
First picture is 31lbs @23" I doubt my wife will pull more than that.
Second picture is 36lbs @25"
Bjrogg
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:OK
Great save..
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That's a textbook bend on a less-than-textbook stave!
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Looking good BJ :OK