Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Springbuck on February 14, 2018, 10:01:47 pm
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I made these two bows from different species of elm, one "good, one "bad", and hope you find this informative. They grew near each other along a ditch, but one was hard, white, clean, works cleanly, and had no heartwood. The other was softer, mostly heartwood, scruffy, stringy, and clogs rasps. The saplings were the same size almost exactly,, thick ends just over 4" dia., so the bows are both 67" NTN, heat tempered into reflex on the same 2" form, same crown, nearly the same width.
The GOOD elm has the leather handle. It is 1/8" narrower overall, has a longer handle/fade section by an inch, side tapers earlier, and still retained 1-1/4" of reflex. It draws 53# and physically weighs just a couple ounces more. Unstrung after shooting it shows very little extra follow. It split hard, but worked easily with rasps and the spokeshave. It shoots an arrow visibly slightly faster.
The BAD elm has the hemp handle wrap. It is 1/8" wider and a hair thicker, and side tapers later on the limb. It refused to hold any reflex during tiller, and in fact gave back about 1-1/4" right off the form. It took most of its set shortly after hitting brace height during tillering. It insisted on bending more about 2/3-3/4 of the way out the limb. After use it shows nearly an inch of string follow, and creeps back to ALMOST straight. It pulls 51#..
So, there ya go. The bad elm probably should have been tillered with a 45 lb bow in mind or whatever. It's not a disaster, rather a shootable bow, but is clearly different wood than the better elm. I don't have full draw pics because I am just getting around to finishing them. As I do sometimes, I left them sitting around too long after shooting in, and now there is a tiny bug hole on the crown of the "good" elm, I have to patch.
Remind me if I forget.
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Profiles.
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That was informative. I’d be happy to shoot either though ;). I need to try some elm.
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Is there much difference in cast?
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They both look like GOOD elm to me :laugh: Nice job on both! Any clue on what different species of elm they are?
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Nice bows and good up front example of the differences in elm for bow wood.
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How did you go about heating in the reflex, was there any difference between the two?
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Is there much difference in cast?
I haven't chronographed or shot for distance, but I mentioned above that the "good" elm bow is visibly faster, as you would expect. Not a ton, but it definitely is.
You'd expect that, though, right? It's a couple oiunds heavier, it has longer skinny tips and more reflex ,AND it tolerates the reflex well.
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They both look like GOOD elm to me :laugh: Nice job on both! Any clue on what different species of elm they are?
It's been years since I cut them, and in Utah the "good" elms are all introduced. I cut them in early winter wheneaves were off, too. It's PROBABLY a Siberian elm and an American elm, but all I really know is one is definitely it a "red" elm, and the other white.
Part of why I posted this is to demonstrate that while GOOD elm is much better, and can be really good even compared.to other woods, that "trash" elm is worth trying if that's all you got, and you can find a good stave.
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Seems likely. Siberian Elm will actually naturally hybridise with Native Red Elm. Elm hybrids do not otherwise occur as a rule due to different times of year for seeds to develop.
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How did you go about heating in the reflex, was there any difference between the two?
I rough out almost any bow as soon as I can from green wood, then restraint it to dry. Sapling bows like to twist and warp sideways or curl into too much reflex to use. Once dry, I clean them up and thickness them t about where you'd start floor tillering, about 5/8- 3/4 thick, more depending on length. Then I have a couple of forms cut from either 2x4's or laminated up slats held with screws. I just crank them down gently on those with C-clamps, shimming, using blocks, or even thinning wood slightly as I go so I don't crack bellies in tension. I temper and straighten at the same time. I have a big electric griddle I use, and I shuffle the clamps around as I go. A lot of the times I have to come back and touch spots up with the heat gun and caul later during tillering, say to get the tips to really line up or untwist.
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Thanks for sharing your results. In the last 2 weeks I have cut both red and white elm to try. Going to try and get one white elm stave to floor tiller soon so it can dry faster and leave the rest for future use. Regardless will keep this in mind when I try a red elm stave.
They both look GOOD to me :)
Mike
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Seems likely. Siberian Elm will actually naturally hybridise with Native Red Elm. Elm hybrids do not otherwise occur as a rule due to different times of year for seeds to develop.
Good to know, PatM.I can spot an elm from half a mile at a glance, but it gets a lot fuzzier from there They were clearly different species, by neighbors, wood, and bark, but growing at each end of a couple hundred yard thicket.
When the Mormon pioneers came to Utah they brought a lot of species out with them for shade and ornamental trees, as well as fruit trees, etc. Black and yellow locust, maples, sycamores, and very rarely osage and hickories. This thicket had the rotting remains of three huge old "mother" tree stumps along the edge of a field, and even the stumps look like different varieties with the thickets of small to medium volunteer all along the ditch and fence. They LOOK like two of the good kind and one of the other.
But, it seems like little volunteer Siberian elms pop up everywhere you let them, even sidewalk cracks. I see them on the sides of the roads from Frida to Texas, to Oregon when I travel, and a lot of people would have access to it if you can find a ditch line or vacant lot. Again, if you have nothing else.
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And thanks for the compliments. I'm going to try to actually finish and post more of my bows rather than just endlessly fiddling with them.