Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: k-hat on February 04, 2018, 10:02:01 pm
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So I got quite a bit of deer leg sinew (and some back sinew) from George Stoneberg (thanks George!!!) a while back, and finally worked up the guts to use it. I've been eyeing this sweet little osage fencepost bow I made a couple years ago, and I think she's a perfect candidate. I was hoping to get a hunting bow out of her, but there just wasn't enough good wood left after taking away all the rot from the fencepost. She's 52" ntn, about 35-40# at my 26" draw. I want to lay a couple courses of sinew and see how she responds. I got her shooting, then applied shellac as a temporary sealant until I could decide what I wanted to do with her. She had a few issues: a good deal of natural deflex out of the grip area, a gouge in the grip running length-wise or about 6" that I filled with osage dust and glue, and a windcheck splitting the last 8 inches of one limb. I made an ugly side nock to keep that check together all the way to the tip instead of running out before the nock, I was a little nervous about that.
Per the title, this was a fencepost that was verified to have gone in the ground over 100 years ago, and was a quarter from a very large tree, so the wood is in the 150 to 200 year old range. Pretty cool.
I know string angle is going to be an issue at this length, so I went ahead and recurved the tips today. Had good success with a new method I'm trying for steaming, whereas usually these old fence post bows get all kinds of splits and break apart when I boil, heat gun, or steam otherwise. Here is her current status:
Side profile before recurving:
(https://i.imgur.com/rZ5NwwG.jpg)
Front profile before recurving:
(https://i.imgur.com/TCaZ0Vi.jpg)
Side profile after recurving:
(https://i.imgur.com/rIDGJxe.jpg?2)
Front profile after recurving:
(https://i.imgur.com/xvlzKmG.jpg?1)
The wind check with ugly nock:
(https://i.imgur.com/Y7TMUow.jpg?1)
I think I'll treat it normally now and just wrap the beginning of the split with sinew.
I also have a couple of snake skins I may apply as well ( I think a rattler that George also bestowed upon me, and another my aunt killed that I don't remember what type it was, but it had a beautiful skin).
I've had thoughts of backsetting the grip and making her a 5 curve bow as well. What your y'alls thoughts?
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That is some absolutely gorgeous osage. I think the profile is sweet as is, but I have never really been a fan of the five curve shape, so take that for what it's worth!
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Boah, I would like to get my hands on something old sage like this
Bow looks good btw.
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My vote would be to keep the profile as-is. Looking good so far.
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simson if you didn't live across the doggone water I might entertain sending you a piece just for the sheer joy of seeing what you turned out off it :BB
the 5 curve is a temptation PD and Tim, but I am also learning to leave "well-enough" alone!
So if I do 2 courses of sinew using knox gelatin, what kind of shrinkage/reflex should I expect as it dries? Should I be concerned about splintering the belly? She's carrying about an inch of set as-is.
BTW don't expect this to be a short project, my son is working with me on this one and it's at best every other weekend (finally got him interested in a bowmaking project! we'll see how long it lasts).
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I might steam in just a bit more reflex in the mids, but like the others are saying the profile looks fine as is. With sinew it should hold whatever profile you decide on pretty well.
The story behind the wood is too cool. 8)
Keep us "posted" no pun intended.
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upstate I agree a little more mid reflex would look good. After a lot of thought, however, I'm going to stick with how I began this bow... simple, straightforward, and as "natural/primitive" as possible. I actually haven't touched this bow with heat until I did the recurves. All the other curves are pure and natural, and when i started this one a while back that was my intention to do it as "native' as I can.
A little tiller tweaking and then sinew and maybe skins. I'll post when I make some more progress ;D :BB
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Very cool 8). I like that a lot. Glad you decided to keep the natural lines of the stave. Depending on the amount of sinew you lay down, you should expect around 2-3" pulled in reflex when that sinew dries completely, although some of that will be lost as you tiller.
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Aaron- when you refer to the sinew drying and pulling the bow into reflex, do you mean with hide glue or any glue? Though i have seen other peoples builds do this with hide glue, i have personally used TB3 exclusively and have never had one pull into reflex. So im wondering if its a hide glue thing, or am i just not using enough sinew?
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240 from what I've been reading, I don't think it happens with pva glues, just hide glues due to their shrinkage as they dry, as I understand it.
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Aaron- when you refer to the sinew drying and pulling the bow into reflex, do you mean with hide glue or any glue? Though i have seen other peoples builds do this with hide glue, i have personally used TB3 exclusively and have never had one pull into reflex. So im wondering if its a hide glue thing, or am i just not using enough sinew?
You have to use hide glue or fish glue to get that effect. and brace the bow bachwards while glue is drying. PVA settles down quickly and does not allow the reflexing, or only little.
Hide glue is cheap and easy to handle!
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Simon got it right, it must be a collagen glue. I use hide glue (or knox) and reverse brace about an inch right after laying down the sinew (normally one single heavy course). As the sinew and collagen glue dries it will shrink and gain you more reflex.
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What kind of ratio do yall ue for knox? the little package says 1 cup water per packet, but that's for jiggly food-like substances. I don't want jiggly food-like substances :P
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Thin syrup consistency @ around 140°, if it's too hot for your fingers, it's too hot for the sinew
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I’ve always wanted to work an old fence post. Have fun!
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My wife's aunt posted on fb last year that she had this snake at her back door. I said "I want it!", so she killed it and stuck it in the freezer for me haha. So I'm thinking of using the skin on this bow. Here's the pic she posted just postmortem. Oklahoma snake. Don't know the species...
(http://i.imgur.com/URk29vi.jpg)
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Common Garter Snake, they make a colorful bow back. If I can find pics I'll post hear. John
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Thin syrup consistency @ around 140°, if it's too hot for your fingers, it's too hot for the sinew
Gelatin glue actually doesn't have to be anywhere near that hot to be liquid. The safest way to use it is a much cooler temp. Not sure where the 140 standard became entrenched in sinewing technique. Probably just to gain a bit of time before it cools and gels presumably.
I only keep it at about the actual melting temp, which is close to body temperature.
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K-hat how is the bow coming along, have you added the sinew yet? I just did 2 last night with TB3. I sure hate the mess and tediousness, but i sure love the outcome. :OK
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Very cool old wood and I agree, the profile is great as is.
have been using 1/2 cup water to each little pack of knox and it seems about right to me.
Bryce, may have a challenge for ya man )P( :BB
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240 I sure haven't, told y'all it'd be slow ;-) My son is only with me on 1st, 3rd, and 5th weekends, and as I have had a time getting him into projects with me, I'm reserving as much as possible for us to work together. We'll be on it next weekend, but will probably just finish prepping all the sinew. So maybe we'll be done by the end of March ;D
I did find out after posting that it was a common garter snake as you mention Stoner. I had no idea they got as big as this one (36" plus). I still need to prep that skin as well. Kinda cool that one of the few NA bow artifacts that has snakeskin on it was... you guessed it, a garter snake skin. So we're keeping it authentic I guess!
Thanks for the info Aaron, Pat, DuBois. Good to have a starting place. I have a cast iron pot I plan to use to keep it warm. Now I just need a heat source. On the lookout for hotplates on the cheap! I suppose if all else fails I can heat the bottom of the pot with my heatgun
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Head to the local thrift shop and pick up a cheap crock pot. I got mine for $5. I put water in the crock pot and float a stainless steel bowl in it with the hide glue in it. If the crock pot doesn't have a control on it(mine doesn't) I just add a bit of cold water occasionally to keep the temp down. If the sinew shrivels, it's too hot.
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Garters are great. They tend to be a bit see-through like most snake skins. I like to put something that manages the color behind the skin. Silk is my favorite. But dying the back of the bow works wonders. I think someone said something about an example? I believe this one has a black dye behind these nw coast garters.
(http://i.imgur.com/KxjPam0.jpg) (http://imgur.com/KxjPam0)
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Pat B, great idea with the crockpot, I'll keep an eye out for one.
Bryce that's a beauty! The skin I have will be about 8" short of reaching the tips if I center it, so I'll likely do something like what you have there, unless it's wide enough to split in 1/2 lengthwise and cover both limbs completely without looking too asymmetrical. I do have a rattler skin that I may use instead if it is long enough to cover ntn and put the garter on the sister to this bow (the sister is 60#@26", unbacked so no sinew to cover up). I've yet to skin a bow, so that's a first as well.
Appreciate all the tips!