Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Selfbowman on January 05, 2018, 05:33:43 pm

Title: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 05, 2018, 05:33:43 pm
How's the pyramid look?
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 05, 2018, 05:40:28 pm
68"ntn. 50@28.  2-3/8at the fades. 1/4 at the tip .
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: BowEd on January 05, 2018, 06:14:19 pm
Looks like a healthy one.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Jim Davis on January 05, 2018, 06:19:19 pm
Got a full draw photo?

Looks super, though I don't like a recurve handle on a long bow...Or a cut out either...JMHO...
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: jeffhalfrack on January 05, 2018, 06:24:25 pm
Seeeet! I would love to know how fast that bow is? I bet it's quick! Jeffw
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 05, 2018, 06:44:29 pm
That's what I thought Jeff. But not so fast. 500 gr. 190 yds. 163-165 ish. Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: upstatenybowyer on January 05, 2018, 06:50:43 pm
The pyramid looks great to me, but seeing a full draw would be helpful as a pyramid design has a specific tiller shape...  :D

Oh yeah, and what kind of wood you got there?
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 05, 2018, 06:58:12 pm
Osage upstate. Maybe full draw tomorrow. Depends on my wife. Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 05, 2018, 07:20:17 pm
Yes Ed it came in at 27 oz. I think most of the extra weight is in the big handle and midlimb to fades. Mid-limbs are 1-1/4 wide . That's my normal midlimb on Osage 9-1/2 " handle. Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: upstatenybowyer on January 05, 2018, 09:34:27 pm
Cool Arvin  8) bet it's a sweet lookin bend  (SH)

I've been going with a longer handle myself lately.  :)
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Badger on January 05, 2018, 09:42:22 pm
  hard to believe that bow is not fast, waiting for the full draw shot.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 05, 2018, 11:02:31 pm
Steve I shot into a wind but I still don't think it's a screamer.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: sieddy on January 06, 2018, 10:12:23 am
Those are some killer looking recurves!  :)
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Pat B on January 06, 2018, 10:20:39 am
Sweet looking bow. I love that pyramid shape.   :OK
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: simson on January 06, 2018, 10:58:01 am
Let's see the fd!
That side profile looks nice.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: redhillwoods on January 06, 2018, 01:50:03 pm
The unstrung profile is gorgeous. Looking forward to seeing it drawn
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Philipp A on January 06, 2018, 03:36:41 pm
That's a good looking pyramid bow! I am looking forward to see pics with it drawn.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: ohma2 on January 06, 2018, 08:45:55 pm
That IS a good lookin bow,like it all.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 07, 2018, 04:13:14 pm
Full draw
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 07, 2018, 04:18:22 pm
Full draw maybe?
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 07, 2018, 04:19:52 pm
Now you know why I don't do pics! Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 07, 2018, 04:59:01 pm
One more try!
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: M2A on January 07, 2018, 05:45:35 pm
Very nice bow!   
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: burchett.donald on January 07, 2018, 06:23:48 pm
Here ya go...
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2018, 06:40:33 pm
     I think you are bluffing on the speed to keep me from powering down more on a flight bow. I am going to assume you are sandbagging me and get my fanny to work. If it is in fact performing as you say it I the only cause I can think of is too much working limb. The bow stores a lot of energy and on the return stroke might distort the inner limbs costing you some power. Only way to control that is less working limb.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 07, 2018, 07:29:53 pm
Steve you know the wood I am working with. Show me state. This is the only design so far that has not taken excessive set. I built one today well in the last couple days that was 2" wide at fades 1-1/2 at mid limb 1/4 " at tips69" ntn . . Had 2-1/2 " back set  off the caul. After 15 shots  1" from back of handle to the wall. The bow took the set fades to midlimb. Same caul as the bow above pretty much. Steve tomorrow with some light I will get the crono out and check the speed. Flight conditions have not been ideal at all. I can only shoot from NW to SE. Today was overcast and wet.  However if me telling you I am sand bagging will get you to the flats I am.  ;D  Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 07, 2018, 07:34:14 pm
Oh and thanks Donald that's what it really looked like. Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2018, 07:35:09 pm
  Arvin, honestly I have had the same issues with Kansas and Missouri wood, I am sure they have some good wood but my result was similar to yours.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 07, 2018, 07:42:07 pm
You know Steve the mass in the inter limbs may some how be absorbing the outer limbs energy. That should open a can of worms!!  ;D Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2018, 08:25:58 pm
  Arvin, the biggest single source of energy loss on a bow is limb vibration. The more working limb you have the more opportunity for vibration. If you go too short you take set and pick up hysteresis, the trick is finding the balance point between the two. I suspect long working pyramid bows might slightly exaggerate this effect because of equal or approx. equal thickness limbs. Not really sure on that one. It would be nice to get some slow mo action of the limbs on that bow. I know it stores a lot of energy, and it didn't really take on any set so it has to be loosing it somewhere.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 07, 2018, 08:53:08 pm
This bow has no shock !! So if vibration is happening the mass in the handle and midlimbs must be absorbing the vibration. I spent some hours on the heat bench getting that grain about as straight as one person can. It was very straight to begin with. No knots , flat back, split out of a tree I was told yielded like 50 staves. It's just not dense . That's what I think. Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: upstatenybowyer on January 07, 2018, 09:46:14 pm
Hey now, that's a beauty of a bend for sure!
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Badger on January 07, 2018, 10:25:07 pm
  Arvin, they call it vibration but it is really more like distortion. The limb tips carry some momentum that the arrow is trying to control. The limb will take every opportunity it can to take the easiest route, If the limbs can distort easier than slow down they will distort. This is one of the reasons parallel limbs tend to be a tad faster on r/d designs. they are stiffer in the outer limbs and offer less opportunity to distort. Glass bows have exactly the same challenge here.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Jan de Bogenman on January 08, 2018, 05:00:50 am
Very interesting and a very nice bow!
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Pappy on January 08, 2018, 06:30:52 am
Very nice bow Arvin, don't know much about speed but that looks like a shooter to me. ;)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on January 08, 2018, 10:29:52 am
Well I shot it about ten times this morning. Clear 50degrees , 5-8 tale wind. 5 arrows one at 200,2at 205-207 , one 450gr 218 one I have not found yet. The 218 yd made some Hugh circles off the bow  before straightening out. It also had a broken broadhead. D97 8 strand string. Maybe it is just not broke in yet. Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: JW_Halverson on January 08, 2018, 01:02:21 pm
Even the best design, executed close to flawlessly, but with sub-par wood can lead to a less than amazing cast.  So if you are working with wood that was low density for the species, I can see how maybe this one is underwhelming. 

But I cannot fault you on the tiller and the graceful look of this bow!  She's pertier than a potbellied puppy in sweetclover!
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on February 27, 2018, 03:33:43 am
Morgan I don't do pics well . But here is bow fishing design plenty of handle for reel attachment . Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: bentstick54 on February 27, 2018, 10:30:11 pm
Good looking bow Arvin, like the full draw profile.

Question for Arvin and Steve. You both made comments about your experiences with Ks/Mo Osage, and Arvin thinks this stave came out of a tree that produced about 50 staves.

Do you think an Osage tree that has a diameter of 8” to 12” would be denser than a large diameter tree that would produce more staves?

I am a rookie and have a lot to learn for sure. I’ve only made 11 or 12 Osage flat bows,all out of Ks Osage, 8” to 12” diameter trees, that would yield 3 to 5 staves depending on how they split. These bows have mostly been in the 66”ntn, with 4” handle, 3” to fades, about 1 1/2” wide at flares straight tapered to 1/2” tips, approx 50#@28” back of handle to nock throat.

I have run several through a chrono with 9gpp arrows and they seem to average around 170fps +/- 3 or 4fps. I’m wanting to find some premium staves, but you have me wondering I’m cutting the best wood I could be?
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Morgan on February 28, 2018, 12:12:47 pm
Morgan I don't do pics well . But here is bow fishing design plenty of handle for reel attachment . Arvin
Arvin, That looks real good. Thank you.
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: rps3 on February 28, 2018, 12:37:10 pm
Great looking bow. Do you think, at those specs, your bow might shine even more drawn another inch or 2? Send it to me and I'll do it for ya ;D
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on February 28, 2018, 01:41:25 pm
Bentstick I have had good Osage from Kansas. And I think the Mo. wood is also good you just have to change the recipe on width a bit. 170 fps is real good speed from any wood in my oppinion. I've shot some glass bows that was not that fast. Can we get more out of them yes. But the bowyer has to be on his game that day with a fine stave. The staves are not all created equal. Does not meen flawless of knots and such but dense helps for me. Some of my best Osage came from just east of Austin and the staves came from 12" or less diameter trees. If you got some set on your bow that's where they start to slow down . At least that is what I have found to be true with my ability at this time. As a few on here have said before set happens . The less we have the better the bow. Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: bentstick54 on February 28, 2018, 05:33:49 pm
Thanks Arvin, I bet all my bows have taken 1” to 1 1/2” of set. Have not made any since I keyed in on Badgers mass principle.  That I’ll be my next attempt. I still wonder if smaller diameter trees would tend to lean towards denser wood on average than larger diameter trees, or if it’s just luck of the draw?
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: Selfbowman on February 28, 2018, 08:48:45 pm
Don't know that . Maybe someone can address the densedy ?. There was a time when I thought tighter rings  made for more dense wood. But if the early and late rings are about the same size it's not so dense. Big thick rings don't seem as dense  to me. Small early rings and thicker late rings seem to be the better wood. Course next week we will start a bow from a different stave and it will change our mind. Reading the stave separates the men from the boys. Or the lucky from the not so lucky.
Arvin
Title: Re: Pyramid bow
Post by: loefflerchuck on February 28, 2018, 11:15:05 pm
Beautiful bow with a sweet tiller. Thanks for posting the stats. Those are great numbers for most bows, but I agree with others on here. With the shape and tiller I would bet it was faster than you say.