Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Marc St Louis on December 19, 2017, 08:11:04 pm

Title: Elm Recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on December 19, 2017, 08:11:04 pm
I tried making one of these with Buckthorn a few months ago and it failed in a spectacular way

(https://i.imgur.com/oqZiehZ.jpg)

I liked the looks of the bow, before it exploded on me, and decided I wanted to make one out of something that wouldn't explode, like Elm.  The Elm I used is not top quality but it is decent, it's wood I cut a couple years ago.  I bent the curves with steam, setting them in place with dry-heat after, and reflexed and heat-treated the belly into about 6" of reflex.  The bow is 65" long with limbs 1 5/8" wide tapering to 3/8" wide nocks.  I tillered the bow to 28" where it pulls 55#.  Here's a few pics

(https://i.imgur.com/BBOiAIG.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/cqRRHfx.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/4G72VHr.jpg)

I shot it a few times and it shoots quite well.  Performance is not spectacular but decent.  My shooting range is in the shop as there's too much snow outside so I only have a 30" range

(https://i.imgur.com/liXclwF.jpg)
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: osage outlaw on December 19, 2017, 08:28:37 pm
Nice looking recurve Marc.  Your buckthorn bow looks almost grey in that picture.  Was it dead before it was cut?  I've got a couple of pieces of BT and it has a much brighter color than what you posted.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: bjrogg on December 19, 2017, 08:45:35 pm
That sure is a beautiful bend Marc. To bad about the buckthorn.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on December 19, 2017, 09:18:13 pm
No the Buckthorn was live but seasoned with the bark on
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: lebhuntfish on December 19, 2017, 09:39:27 pm
I really like the shape! And the tiller is sweet!

Patrick
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 19, 2017, 09:39:47 pm
You are the king of the bend Marc. The undisputed king.   )P(
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Pat B on December 19, 2017, 09:42:44 pm
Nice elm recurve, Marc.    :OK
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: ---GUTSHOT---> on December 19, 2017, 11:16:18 pm
That's a pretty bend and nice looking bow.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: joachimM on December 20, 2017, 02:45:22 am
everytime I see you posted a new bow I can't wait to see it, and you never disappoint me.
That's a sweet bow!
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Pappy on December 20, 2017, 04:20:47 am
Very nice bow Marc, I am working on am Elm  now, hope it turns out half as nice.
 Pappy
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on December 20, 2017, 06:15:58 am
Thanks guys.  Been awhile since I made a plain simple recurve like this.  I actually started this bow several months ago but shelved it for awhile because other things came up. 
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: simson on December 20, 2017, 09:14:32 am
I like the simplicity and elegance in that bow - she is a beauty!

On the buckthorn I had the same idea like Clint.
Here in Germany that wood is rare, I found some but had lot of failures because of the low quality wood. I had similar tension breaks.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: leonwood on December 20, 2017, 02:56:14 pm
Lovely bow, simple and elegant taken to perfection, just the way I like them!
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: mullet on December 20, 2017, 03:28:01 pm
Something to be said about a nice, plain recurve. Very nic, Marc. Looks like you're slacking on your target shooting. ::) ;)
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on December 20, 2017, 03:45:26 pm
All the Buckthorn I have cut, all were live trees, developed that discoloration on the back even with the bark partially removed.

I haven't shot a bow in several months Eddie
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: selfbow joe on December 20, 2017, 07:17:59 pm
Nice looking bow
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: barebo on December 21, 2017, 04:45:31 am
Once again, you've set the bench mark for an all wood recurve. I'd like to watch you tiller a bow to hopefully learn how to achieve that final draw that seems like mirror images on all of your recurves. Some say nice, plain recurve, but to my eyes those bows are the pinnacle of the bowyers art.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Aaron H on December 21, 2017, 06:05:33 am
Very nice work Marc
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on December 21, 2017, 06:25:52 am
Thanks guys. 

I wish I could find some top quality Elm again.  This wood is really good but there's a level of Elm above this that is outstanding when heat-treated
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Badger on December 21, 2017, 06:35:15 am
Thanks guys. 

I wish I could find some top quality Elm again.  This wood is really good but there's a level of Elm above this that is outstanding when heat-treated

   Mark, I don't know if Chinese elm grows in your parts or not. It is very common in So Cal but I seldom can get a hold on any that is small enough for me to handle. Excellent bow wood and very consistent. The city offered me about 7 pipe straight trunks about 8 feet long last year but they weighed over 1,000# each and I couldn't process them. Almost impossible to split. I won't fool with anything over about 10". It cares less about grain violations. One time I sawed out a cupid style recurve just for fun with massive violations and I still have that bow shooting.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Parnell on December 21, 2017, 06:55:02 am
Very pretty bend Marc.  I swear one of these days I'm going to give your style of arrow shelf/pass a go.  Next bow...
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: BowEd on December 21, 2017, 08:23:44 am
Thanks guys. 

I wish I could find some top quality Elm again.  This wood is really good but there's a level of Elm above this that is outstanding when heat-treated
Very nice elm recurve Marc.To me that elm does have a sweet drawing type feel.Good for my aggravated rotater cuff tendon....lol.I personally think as known by many who like elm that there is just so many kinds.Others on here really like the stuff too.The best I have worked on with regularity was winged elm out of south carolina but I suspect florida would have as good of quality.Got some now out of southern arkansas that is pretty decent but not like previous states stated.The red elm locally here is farther down the scale yet though.Hav'nt tried the local chinese or american type yet which most times does'nt have the light brown heartwood that red elm does.In fact I'd rather make bows out of hackberry than red elm.
Main difference in quality is it's density to me.Just an observation.It all seems to take heat treating really well with the denser holding heated profiles better than the lighter density and can be made with narrower limbs.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Badger on December 21, 2017, 09:13:37 am
  I agree with you Ed, I don't consider red elm to be a true bow wood. Chinese elm I use the same dimensions that I use with osage. It seems to be the most consistently dense of all the elms I have worked with.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Hawkdancer on December 21, 2017, 11:23:57 am
Real nice looking bow, Marc!  Your indoor range seems a bit (30")short, though >:D!   Bow shoots good, in any case.
Hawkdancer
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: k-hat on December 22, 2017, 07:19:36 am
That's a classic "Marc" elm bow, love seeing your bows every time.  Elm is certainly my favorite, and I need to find myself some more high quality stuff as well.

Also, thanks for sharing that you still break bows now an again,  makes me feel like less of a loser  ;D
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Marc St Louis on December 22, 2017, 02:48:18 pm
Real nice looking bow, Marc!  Your indoor range seems a bit (30")short, though >:D!   Bow shoots good, in any case.
Hawkdancer

Can't miss at that distance  ;D

Not likely Chinese Elm grows up here Steve, too far north

Density has no value if the wood chrysals and I have seen dense Elm chrysal.  I value elasticity over everything else
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: BowEd on December 22, 2017, 10:27:50 pm
  I agree with you Ed, I don't consider red elm to be a true bow wood. Chinese elm I use the same dimensions that I use with osage. It seems to be the most consistently dense of all the elms I have worked with.
I'll have to try that chinese or possibly american elm here then for self bows.I know there's fellas here who use the red elm as cores on FG bows without any failures.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: PatM on December 22, 2017, 10:51:52 pm
I like this back to basics style.

 Chinese Elm would probably grow fine up there. It would need to be planted first though.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Badger on December 22, 2017, 11:37:33 pm
  I agree with you Ed, I don't consider red elm to be a true bow wood. Chinese elm I use the same dimensions that I use with osage. It seems to be the most consistently dense of all the elms I have worked with.
I'll have to try that chinese or possibly american elm here then for self bows.I know there's fellas here who use the red elm as cores on FG bows without any failures.

  Ed, it is a great core wood because it is light, you can use any wood for a core because it doesn't do anything. Just a spacer.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: Philipp A on December 23, 2017, 06:19:15 am
Hi Marc,

I like that bow a lot, what a beautiful tiller you have on it as well!

To Badger in regards to the splitting of Elm, why don't you use a chainsaw instead? I never split my HHB either because it doesn't seem to work for me. I use a chainsaw and then when I quartered it use the band saw.

Christmas Greetings,

Phil
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: BowEd on December 23, 2017, 08:14:27 am
  I agree with you Ed, I don't consider red elm to be a true bow wood. Chinese elm I use the same dimensions that I use with osage. It seems to be the most consistently dense of all the elms I have worked with.
I'll have to try that chinese or possibly american elm here then for self bows.I know there's fellas here who use the red elm as cores on FG bows without any failures.

  Ed, it is a great core wood because it is light, you can use any wood for a core because it doesn't do anything. Just a spacer.

Yes I've understood the working surface depth concept for quite some time.I usually gotta laugh though.The FG bows want to look like wood but not really yet.I've scored elm also with a chain saw for splitting to get staves later.
The chinese or american elm here usually has a shorter trunk then the  elm.That can be determined by growing locations some but in general that's the way it is here.
Elm is a very prolific propogater here if given a chance.It was used in the past here as wind breaks for farm yards.A fairly fast grower to develope that.Disease[what they call the chinese elm diseease] has gotten many but it still is around.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: ntvbowyer1969 on December 29, 2017, 10:49:44 pm
Great looking bow. Love the tiller on this one. Great to see you on here. always look forward in seeing your work.
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: bjrogg on December 30, 2017, 05:36:52 am
Real nice looking bow, Marc!  Your indoor range seems a bit (30")short, though >:D!   Bow shoots good, in any case.
Hawkdancer

Can't miss at that distance

Must have that arrow tuned pretty good to straighten out in 30"s Marc.
Thanks again for sharing I do just love your bends.
Bjrogg
Title: Re: Elm Recurve
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 30, 2017, 02:04:11 pm
It's a beauty, Marc! Congratulations! Jawge