Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Zuma on November 28, 2017, 05:26:39 pm
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Holy Moly, :o
This is sort of a continuation of two threads.
I am lazy and always lookin for short cuts and potential
improvements. But I am cheap too. Retired on SS with no
income from my X wives. Yeah, I know! ;D
Anyway, in one of the other threads I said I would try pressure
washing the hair side of a deer hide that didn't have the benefit
of an ash bath. It took more time than it did with the ash bath
but it was because I had to remove the epidermis as well to get
the hair. I was doing ok until I met the neck area. ???
A total brick wall. Nothing would budge. More resistant at the spine
and a wee bit better towards the edges until the pressure just couldn't
cut it anymore. Photo shows end of the road even with my crude scraper.
Zuma
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Don, throw your hide back in some warm water for 3 days if warm 6 days if cold, The hair will eventually slip but you still got to remove the grain with your scraper, necks are notoriously just plain tuff. Buck-up Buttercup ;D ;D ;D :o Bob
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. Buck-up Buttercup ;D ;D ;D :o Bob
Thanks Brother, :) Yep I'll add some ash too. I found out to rush ain't cool.
Also I will find the soft spot in your heel one day >:D >:D.
Zuma
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :'(
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Don, here is something else that my help on the thick necks, Remember when I was explaining fleshing knives that have a dull side and a sharp side, the convex side of my fleshing knife is razor sharp and is used for shaving gristle off beaver and the tuff stuff on the neck area of coons and I try and shave down the grain side of those extra thick Buck necks, be careful its easy to cut holes with the sharp side, I have a mid range price wise fleshing knife, Today probably run about $65 and the sky is the limit on the better ones, Mine is a Necker 600, and I happened to have this from my days of trapping,,kinda pricey for entry level braintanning. Good luck with your buck hide, I have a bunch of braintan with stiff hard necks so you are not alone. Bob
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Zuma...All those charateristics you've seen epidermis have sticking onto the leather are the same that are the toughest for brain penetration too.That's why it's important to concentrate extra efforts of stretching on those areas.The neck area and the spine lines mainly.For some reason the hip joint areas even though thick aren't as stubborn.Thinning areas like this are a lot of work.Only 2 ways and that's either skiving it with a sharp blade while tender and that's tough doing a nice job or sanding after dried.At least 60 grit needed and then it will still take quite a while.
Ash soak will remove hair easily but not epidermis.For just rawhide to use just removing the hair is good enough with the epidermis a part of the rawhide.More then likely that epidermis that did come off power washing was a result of just getting tender enough from a long enough water soak.
Being a tanner is'nt a very glamorous hobby but the products produced and used from it are I think.
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Bob as always so helpful. Thanks for takin the time to pen your experiences
not just for me but also the casual reader that may want to get their hide tanned.
The same goes for you too Ed. Great education here. :) :)
It always helps to know what you are in for when doing projects like these.
I guess I'll have to set my wood planner down mighty thin. ??? ??? >:D .
All in all the power washer is a little better for me, Having the pvc pipe in my gut
is somewhat painful ( colon-ectomy).It's also better for my back and legs.
I know I still have a lot to learn and reading one of Pappy's post in another thread
helped me in the (Rush) department. He told how he would work a hide till he
wanted to stop. Then just put in the freezer till later. Pretty sure I'll be doing this
if I continue. Other wise I'll have to just salt future hides until I have enough to make
the trip to BJ's worth while. I could sit there with a toddy and let him have at it. )P(
I agree with you all that it is less messy if you get set up properly and just do it.
Rubber gloves and an apron are good ideas. ;)
Zuma
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Don, another tip on the sore stomach against your PVC or fleshing beam. Just wad up an old bath towel or a pc of burlap and put between you and beam, a little padding and also helps slippery hides from moving around. I also always start graining on the neck first. I am at my strongest both physically and maybe more so mentally, It is easy to just say ah heck good enough if I do the necks last when I am wore out. I watched a guy this summer grain a small doe with a split deer leg bone. He made it look easy with his crude scraper. Tuff SOB naa just young. How did the coon ever turn out, curious ? Bob
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Bob I use an old sheet . It was handy. But still a little sore.
The coon survived ok.Nothing great but the hair is all there
and flies haven't taken aa liking to it, It wasn't really a good prime fur.
I skinned out another tonight. A much better hide.
Zuma
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Zuma make a little how to for that coon hide please
just a few picts :OK
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Your doing great Zuma. So far you got further than I did. I'm having trouble finding the time and getting the space in the shop to work on those hides. I might have to work outside yet. My projects are starting to take up to much shop space so I'm told. Guess I probably can't argue with that. Your welcome to bring a toddy and visit anytime. Just make sure she's easy on the eyes.lol.
Bjrogg
PS maybe I'm thinking of totty's, I just know if you look up tractor totty or maybe toddy some pretty nice tractors come up.
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Glis I'll do it just for you. But it could be next year. A few things on the coon I just did.
The fleshed side came out pretty dingy looking. Could be the jersey brown gloves or the
black rubber from the tumbler?? The mink I dressed in eggs stayed pretty light colored.
I broke both hides a lot but they are more crinkly than commercial ones I have purchased.
I guess I am just a sis when it comes to brains but they may serve better than eggs.
I got to order some of that soy oil granules and try that. BTW did you read the "Here is is the plan" thread?
BJ you are so, well so----Can't think of the exact word. ??? Maybe it hasn't been invented yet. :-\
I hope you write us all a book one day soon.You are a born author. ;) O:)
No I would not bring a trailer totty. >:D Oh or a tractor one either. ??? I meant I would
drink a Hot Toddy. ;D
Hot drink with spice, honey and any type of whiskey. Served warm ;D
After the first, I could substitute the spice with whisky. ;D
On the third replace the honey with whisky. ;D By that time you would have all the
coons fleshed out. >:D >:D But please don't put the coon fat in the stove :'(
Zuma
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BTW did you read the "Here is is the plan" thread?
Sure i did. I'm following all the dressing/tanning/butchering posts.
Never tried in real life but I'm getting all the information I can for future use
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That's a good idea. Don't pay much attention to me as I am just getting my feet wet.
Actually soaked with that pressure washer ??? BJ, Bob, Ed and a few others really know their stuff. )P( :) :)
I am glad you have been lurking. I am headed out to finish fleshing the deer skin right now
while the wheather is still soft.
Zuma
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Don, ya got me all fired up with your hide work, Took 2 hides out of storage( salted and stored in 5 gal. buckets) rinsed and put them in my Bucking solution(1/2 cup of KOH (lye) in ten gallons of warm water) I am going to try and get all my stored hides to a different stage Grain, rinse, acidify, membrane and dry. When warm weather gets here going to try and finsish them all out. I have never done many in the nice weather always tried braining in the winter and using wood heat and fans to help get things to the finish. I was supposed to do some this summer but you know Summer got in the way. That's the plan. :o Later Bob
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Don, ya got me all fired up with your hide work, Took 2 hides out of storage( salted and stored in 5 gal. buckets) rinsed and put them in my Bucking solution(1/2 cup of KOH (lye) in ten gallons of warm water) I am going to try and get all my stored hides to a different stage Grain, rinse, acidify, membrane and dry. When warm weather gets here going to try and finsish them all out. I have never done many in the nice weather always tried braining in the winter and using wood heat and fans to help get things to the finish. I was supposed to do some this summer but you know Summer got in the way. That's the plan. :o Later Bob
Ahh that's great now when you start achin a little I have found your soft spot >:D >:D
All kiddin aside I now see how this mania can grow on ya. So far, even if I didn't go any further
I will have at least 27-28 sq ft of raw hide, if my freeser don't puke while I am away from home.
To bad we aren't closer, working and spinnin in the same area would make it more enjoyable. :)
Might have to start an annual TAN IN ;D ;D Keep us posted on your progress. Be rootin for ya
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Well, I am now fleshed out myself. I won't speculate just post photos.
and describe. I fleshed both sides best I could with the trailer strap.
The hair side neck area is a killer, so I drained and sqweeged the hide.
rolled it up and froze till later.
Zuma
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Drain and roll. LOL now I know how t hey make those dog chewies.
Zuma
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That's looking really good to me Zuma. Maybe I'll bring the hides and totties.😎 Oops spelled that wrong I ment toddies.
Bjrogg
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I love it, you cracked me up the first time and it worked again :D ;D )P(
Zuma
Watch this )-w( )-w(
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Don, took one of my hides out and thought I would grain it today, also thought I would keep track of time spent on each faze. This hide is a nice mature buck with only a small entry and exit hole. Started on the neck and go right down the spine about 6 to8 "wide, then I turn hide around and get last couple inches of neck going against the way the hair grows, next I consentrate on the rest of neck sides and go the same way as hair is laying, this took about 30 minutes of really pushing hard. Next I turn hide side ways and work from center of spine to belly and do this until one half is finshed then start down the other side. Totally time was 1 hr. and 15 min. My buck solution KOH made the hair slip with just the back of the hand . I don't really like the hair to fall out so easily. With no hair it is easy to to lose perspective of where you at with your grain removal. Sometimes I just throw my hides in water and then grain them in a couple of days no swelling and hair is not falling off so easily , a little harder to see grain but works just the same. Shoulders are a little sore but not to bad for a old man, I got 2 more fresh hides today so need to get busy maybe flesh them 2 tonite. Bob Oh yea the neck was a typical buck neck tuff but not as tuff as some others. ;D
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Good on ya Bob, sounds like things are going well for you. :)
Without being confusing let me attempt to get on same page. :o
First KOH solution? To be clear you start hair on-- just sprayed or rubbed with the solution?
Just a plain skinned hide that you thawed out (no water or ash?) You apply solution and
then grain from neck to butt. Then you get neck area to close to scrape by turning 180 degrees.
Next turn hide 90 degrees and scrape side. Reverse hide and do other side? Please correct me
where I am wrong. )-w( )-w(
Also question--- It seems like direction of grain is important or is not?? Can you grain from butt to neck?
To clarify--- the hide you did had no prep work on the flesh side?
In other words with a fresh skinned hide you could have it ready for tanning in less than two hours?
Not doubting just want to make sure I understand correctly. Thanks Bob
Zuma
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Don, let me start again , these hides have been fleshed and salted for at least a year and stored in 5 gal. buckets with tite lids.
1. KOH is Potassium Hydroxide, it is lye and the same as wood ash just a lot cleaner, 4 oz of powder 10 gals of water and 2 hides soaked same as the ash treatment.
2. I try an scrape the way the hair lays grows. I try and be very methodical so as to not miss any grain. First I go from neck to spine about 6" wide then do the sides spine to belly. I believe you could grain any direction you want but seems a little easier to follow hair direction and stay orientated, Important part is to not miss any grain.
3.If you have a fresh hide and enough butt Yes you could first flesh it clean then turn it over and grain. Soaking in lye does 2 things, Helps remove protective mucus and swells the grain so you can see what you are removing. Water alone will slip hair.
I have a friend that does braintanning as a full time job, He will throw 4 hides in a barrel of water and the next day he flesh's and grains 2 and adds 2 more to the barrel, He told me he does about 300 hides a yr. Very systematic and makes it look easy. I have watched him soften 2 hides at a time with fans and woodstove for help drying and run out in between to keep and eye on 2 he is smoking. Hope this answers all your questions. Bob
Just got a fresh hide in today so I fleshed it an also ran a time check on this step 35 min. I believe if I would have done the skinning I would cut this time in half. They left lots of meat on this one but beggar's can, 't be to critical, Todays total 1 fleshed and 1 grained enough fun for one day. Bob
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Loud and clear brother Bob. Yep those ashes are pretty funky. I guess I could strain them out better.
Now that I have wrun g you out like like a wet fleshed hide. I want to say thanks very much for taking
the exceptional amount of time to help me out :) :) )P(
Zuma
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I also would like to thank everyone for all the tips and information. I know I learned a lot and I'm sure others did to. I've done a lot of small animals fur on but still no brain tanning of large animals. This is all helpful information and much appreciated.
Bjrogg