Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: Zuma on November 25, 2017, 05:50:19 pm
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I just wanted to throw this brain fart or brainstorm your way.
I know you-all must be tired of my hide threads (hope not)
So here is the Plan lol
I fleshed the road killed coon this afternoon. Thought I'd put it right into an egg bath.
Thought twice and decided to put it into my rock tumbler with some detergent first.
It's going now. Next I will rinse, then add egg oil solution. Tumble overnight.
In am stretch and pull hide for a bit. Return to tumbler with some smooth tumbled rocks
for a while. Wring and stretch for a bit and return to dry tumbler and rocks. Repeat
I wish I had my old 117 volt dryer. I would remove element and tumble hides.
Zuma
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It's good that you cleaned the coon hide well with a detergent to lessen grease etc. but I think your egg solution should of just been massaged into the flesh side is all.What's your solution to getting the egg solution out of the hair now?If an egg solution which I've never used is supposed to simulate the same texture as brains which is the only thing I've used,that type of tan is softened by stretching the hide every which direction as it drys.A tumbler will not accomplish that task.Using a chemical type tan using a tumbler it might accomplish it some but it still will need to be hand stretched some.Not as much as a brain tan hide but still some anyway.
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Zuma I've never used the egg solution but I'd tend to agree with Ed. Whenever I've tanned something I always massage the solution into leather trying to avoid getting it on fur. Usually I turn it fur side out and let it penetrate the hide overnight. I usually roll it up a leave it in a plastic bag. Then I turn leather back out and put on a stretcher. Let it dry slow and I try to stretch it more as it dries. Stretching and rubbing leather over a rope or some type of edge. You might be able to clean the fur up with some fine sawdust mixed with mineral spirits.
Good Luck and I actually enjoy your questions about tanning.
Bjrogg
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Thanks for not getting bored with my recent mania. I did a mink in eggs last year.
The fur rinsed clean. In my post I said I would stretch and pull the hide every now and again.
I'll keep it moving one way or another. Keep you posted.
Lazy Zuma
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Well the rocks I put in earlier than I planed to. Bad idea.
They exacerbated the holes caused by me or the road kill.
Perhaps a full regiment of (shagged golf balls) would be better.
Anywho I stretched and wrung the hide and added another cup of piping hot water.
It is late so I may just turn off the tumbled and let er soak.
Lazy Zuma
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Don, I have never tried tanning with fur on but I have trapped and put up fur for market. I do know that fur and water don't mix and hot water just makes things worse. Warm water and fur is a recipe for hair slippage, it is the same thing you did to make deer hair slip except the ashes swelled the grain, I think your hair going to slip on your coon :( :o I have seen fur buyers use a tumbler with ground corn cobs to help clean ,dry an degrease furs. Bob
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Zuma....Outback is correct in his statement.Back in the early 80's when I wanted to start tanning my own hides I had aspirations on using a tumbler like the big factories to soften hides.Found out through trial and error that it did'nt come out too good.I realize large tanneries have tumblers to soften but that's after the hides are almost dry and using chemicals to tan the hides it breaks the connecting fibers down to be tumbled with hard items to soften them.Brain tanning needs a lot of air circulation and stretching/roping/prodding or whatever way to keep the fibers stretched as they dry.Brain tanning does not break the fibers down as chemicals do.The oils in the brains actually surround the fibers to allow them to be stretched and not cling into themselves as they dry.That's one reason why brain tan is such extremely tough but soft leather.No loss of initial integrity of the leather.It's unique!!!
I do have a tumbler though with cob grit in it that turns around 13 to 14 times a minute.That's the proper speed.It's a 2' by 5' cylinder of galvanized sheet metal mounted on an "A" frame with piilow block bearings. A 2' diameter 3/4" plywood butt ends glued and nailed on each end.A door to get access to the inside on the butt end.I'll get you a pic sometime.I used an electric motor/ accounted for the speed per minute it had/and reduced it mathematically with reduced sized pulleys from motor[2"] to [10"] on the speed reducer then to the shaft on the tumbler.It has length wise 1" by 4"'s along the inside of it that serve as paddles to lift and carry the hide to the top.Then the hide tumbles down into itself along with the cob grit to get degreased properly and dry as a bone.I use it to degrease put up coon/coyote hides after they are dried prior to sending them to Canada to sell.Usually it only takes 5 minutes to degrease hides nice.I got sick of using towels to degrease the hides.The tumbler with the cob grit actually shines the fur up very nicely then too.Top dollar for the furs then.
Some pics...Not very good pics but you'll get the idea.These items have been stored for a while without use.Still work fine though.The tumbler/fiberglass fleshing beam/gear reduction machanism.In background a few of the frames I used to dry hides on.All fur and hide working equipment.Used to always put up my own fur for many years.These tools are fairly well retired nowadays [sorry for the mess]but paid for themselves many times over.To buy these items is pretty expensive so I made most of my own.
(https://i.imgur.com/VVvWFgE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cctcE9d.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FByOB9J.jpg)
Not trying to be too grandious but I knew from the awards sent to me from North Ameraican Fur Auctions I was doing things proper when they would send me notices of rewards on paper.Just a couple here and have lost the others.See there are hundreds of thousands of hides at those fur auctions with buyers there from around the world and to get your own into the top lot is an accomplishment.Pic.
(https://i.imgur.com/DbBHnkv.jpg)
$21.00 may not seem like much but in those years it was top dollar.The early eighties coon went for 3 times that.All fur was up then actually.Prices on fur have been on a steady decline since the early 2000's.That's why just tanning a few for yourself like you want to do is encouraged by me.
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Ed, fur shed looks about like mine :o, I got a couple top lot muskrats $16.50, today same rats maybe $3.00. I told the farmer that wanted some rats cleaned out I would not kill them for a 2 dollar avg, and the populations not there. I used to catch over 100 rats in a month in the 70's. Today same ground you'd maybe catch 15. Don, I know the tumbler sounds like great idea but in all honesty you need to forget about going to the gym and grab hold of your hides and workout until complety dry, or do like NA did and start packin ya a few squaws to do all the hard labor. Either way have fun ;D ;D :o Bob (=) ED, not sure if you or I will be around to see it but Beav will shine again. Bob
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Great posts. I gotta get back to my pullin,stretchin and chewin.
Keep ya posted. Things ae going ok so far excepr the da rn rocks,
Zuma
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I agree Zuma, I always us cold water to wash my fur. Even if it doesn't slip the fur hot water takes the natural oils out of the fur and leaves it looking "dead". The natural oils give it that lustrous look. I know some guys use a conditioner.
Yup always know your doing stuff right when you get those toplot awards. I have them for mink, muskrat and fox. Many years ago I sent into NAFA and they sent me a fur handling catalog. It had instructions for handling each type of fur barer and the stretcher sizes they preferred. When I tanned my hides last year I used fine sawdust and mineral spirits to give the fur a little more "life."
Bjrogg
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My awards should be here next week )-w( )-w( >:D
So far so good. Gettin dry hair still there. I stretch and chew for a while,
spit out the egg shells then do a few chores while hide is in tumbler.
Bob----------" There are more beaver in that valley than stars in the sky"
Iron Belly
So good I went and got some more. :)
Zuma
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Are those all out of 1 tree?.....lol.Nice colored coon!!!I see 1 good dog there....lol.
I pretty much learned to handle fur on my own and working and observing in fur sheds.
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I agree Zuma, I always use cold water to wash my fur. Even if it doesn't slip the fur hot water takes the natural oils out of the fur and leaves it looking "dead". The natural oils give it that lustrous look. I know some guys use a conditioner.
Yup always know your doing stuff right when you get those toplot awards. I have them for mink, muskrat and fox. Many years ago I sent into NAFA and they sent me a fur handling catalog. It had instructions for handling each type of fur barer and the stretcher sizes they preferred. When I tanned my hides last year I used fine sawdust and mineral spirits to give the fur a little more "life."
Bjrogg
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Sorry don't know how I posted that last one I was just trying to fix one of my typing errors. Looks like you got some work ahead of you Zuma,
Bjrogg
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Ed, it ain't that Holstein. ;D ;D Bob
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Are those all out of 1 tree?.....lol.Nice colored coon!!!I see 1 good dog there....lol.
I pretty much learned to handle fur on my own and working and observing in fur sheds.
I would never shoot coons if more than two. Ususlly if there are a pile most are kits.
That is, one night though. I think my best.That photo was from the mid -late seventies.
The walker dog turned silent after 8 mo. The Black and Tan could track across a frozen lake
and was an amazing check dog. The Walker was stolen and Hush died in my arms.
That was a $270 haul. Most nights were 2-4 coons. Paid for Vet bills and dog chow.
This photo is of my first hound and old Mike (redbone 13yrs old). So, so many great memories.
I should stay on topic and start a coon hunt thread.
Zuma
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Nice pictures Zuma. I had a Black -n- Tan someone gave me for free once. It's actually the last dog I ever owned. At free I still paid to much if you know what I mean. He must have gotten beaten or something. He was scared of everyone and wouldn't do anything but get in trouble. I worked hard with him to gain his trust. I'd take him to the farm everyday and carry him up a ladder and let him go up in the barn mow. He would finally come to me when I called him. I put him on a rope lease and every time he didn't go where I wanted him to I'd say this way Jake, turn around give him a good yank then he'd run a head ahead and I'd turn around and do it again. After 15 minutes of this when I said this way he'd look to see where I was going. I thought him this way, here, and stop. Eventually I let go of his longer rope and he didn't even know. I could get him to do a lot with those 3 commands. He never did get to be a good Hunting partner though. He got to where he stayed home good so I let him roam around my house and barn. I went out to pull beans one night about 11:00 pm and he was laying on the road dead. I was really surprised because he never went on the road he was afraid of vehicles. Oh well probably save me a lot of problems anyway.
Not that I'm a big reader but my two favorite books are " Centennial" and "Where The Red Firn Grows"
Bjrogg
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Zuma....Ahhhhh the good old days.Nice pic.You've stepped into my parlor!!!!A man and his dogs.Hard for people to understand but it gets in your blood.There's your rewards.The coon I gather.There are good dogs in most every coonhound breed.All 6 of them.Many dogs can turn silent if they start catching coon on the ground.Most times it's in their genetics to get that way.Does'nt really make them less a coon dog.They are just using their brains.Just a little more unpleasant to hunt if they get out of pocket on ya.Brains is one of the hardest things to breed for in a coon dog.Hunting two dogs like that with those traits for killing coon is a deadly combo.For killing coon 2 dogs is about your best number for success.
I was fortunate enough to own 7 top notch hounds in my life and many good enough hounds too.All black and tans and I tried every breed out there more than once.Each one could tree every kind of coon out there in july or in january in northern Iowa or any other state I dropped them in,and I did that.It was a life style more then a sport to me I hunted year round at least 250 nights a year for at least 25 years weather permitting.Treed 10's of thousands of coon along with cats and bear.The big money coon hunting to me was not killing the coon for fur but stud fees and puppy sales.
I got into competition hunting and won a few national titles with them too hunting against the best in the country of every breed out there including Black and Tan Days in Flora,Illinois in 1994 against 1100 other dogs that weekend.To this day I still enjoy hearing my neighbors coyote hounds run coyotes even though they don't tree any.
Enough blowing my own horn and want to congratulate you being into a sport that is one of the most enjoyable out there.A hound man always a hound man!!!!!Don't worry there is a thread for coon hunters but coon are'nt treed on the internet they are treed in the woods and this is the camp fire thread so I guess it's ok.
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Very good The love of a good hound wins the day. Besides a good time for old dog TAILs.
Something for the cold winter nights
BJ the experience you shared with the gifted hound is somewhat bitter sweet. Although in the bitter end
I know that the pooch had an edge up on you in the feelings department. Please don't let it deter you from
another attempt. Or at least find a coon hunter that don't mind a little company on a cold winter night,
just to hear the music.
If I am not misstaken Mitchner wrote Centennial but i really have lost it's content in my mind as far as dogs.
I think I have read to many of his novels. I own most in hard cover.
Ed you are bad because you have opened up a vault of bygone memories and I want to hear more from you
about the EXPERIENCE. John in the photo above opened a Sport Shop and became a fur buyer.
I just kept hunting till stupid people started throwing paint.
I am up for taking the last few off topic post and see if we can get a mod to put them into
" Coon Dog hunters and their Tails" thread. Just so folks that don't flesh may get on board. ???
What do ya all think??
Zuma
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ED, I remember talking coon dogs with ya one yr at the classic, we camped just down the hill from ya, can't remember if we had the wall tent or the pyramid. My son bought a redbone when he was about 19 yrs old and got into the night hunts. Sage was a natural and helped my son fiqure out the night hunts. Sage ended up being a Gr Nite CH and at one time was the Living Leading Producers of the Redbones for his first 100 pups. My son is 46 this yr and still hunts his Redbones 3 to 4 nights a week all yr round unless snow is to deep, and cold.We often wonder how far Ole Sage would have gone if my boy had him today and with his knowledge now, Maybe a World champ maybe not, either way that ole dog was best thing for my son, never in trouble and never got married till he was 35, run dogs all nite work all day and go again. Somehow he was smart enough to keep some of Sage breeding line still going. Good times for sure. Bob
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Bob you may have typing your post while I was posting my last,
I would appreciate your input very much too. Cause I just read your post--
Just what I am talkin about.
Zuma
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Zuma....The way I see it all of the hobbies we've gotten into are interrelated with the love of animals and the outdoors being the instigator.The journey of experiences along the way.The people you meet and the places you go with the country you see are all good memories.I still have a pair of hounds on the yard from my old stock.They are the 7th generation with my kennel name in front of them all.Black Land Kennel.A few outcrosses there too but to like kind talented individuals that were shirt tail related.Mostly all gr.nt. or nt. ch. in their background.Does'nt totally mean everything about the titles though.I've had open dogs not campaigned that were better than many gr.nt.'s and produced outstanding individuals.
When money enters into the picture from them sometimes the fun can leave though but remembering exactly what the basic thing was that got you started will keep the enthusiasm alive.Keeping a healthy perspective.
Bob....I seem to remember our encounter at the classic.That was back in 2012.I've gotta get back there sometime.I managed to stay out of trouble coon hunting.It's a great hobby!!!!Congrats on your red dog's accomplishments.There are a few fellas in Alabama/Missouri/and Tennessee that are hunting my stock to this day with the same results.I've sent dogs from Canada to New Mexico and from Washington to North Carolina and from Wisconsin to Florida of these dogs to coon and big game hunters.Hunted in most every state.Not all of them but a coon dog is a coon dog no matter where his feet hit the ground.
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I made this in the eighties after I retired from coonin.
My black and tan tracked a coon all night. He was slow but
sure. Everything was totally froze over. I walked to the tree
with Hush. It was daylight and the coon didn't even wake up
with Hush barking up the tree. The coon was sleeping with his
head visable in the den hole.
Zuma
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Wow Don, you truly are a man of many talents, I was totally in surprise that you were in to the coon hunting so much. I really liked your casting of Ole Hush on the tree, What did you make it out of ? Bob
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Now that is a really cool tribute to your coon hound Zuma. Like Bob said you are a man of many talents and interesting hobbies. I think Ed said it how it is. It's all just so intertwined hard to know where one hobby ends and another one starts. I think that's what keeps it so interesting to me and like Ed said not getting to much into the money part. Nothing wrong with a little compensation or bartering, but I try to keep everything just a hobby and not a job.
Bjrogg
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Not much coon hunting anymore Bob. Down here in the mountains you need a mule.
I did train one to ride, one time but never had the confidence she would not be contrary
on the hunt and make me walk her home. Ole Dolly
The dog and coon are hand built. I had some clay left over from a ABO pot. I painted it.
I have a few trophies that Bullet my treeing walker won back in the day. Here is one.
Thanks for being interested and glad you guys get it. Oh I got one of Dolly too.
Zuma
The trophy was from Bullet's last nite hunt back in 79 Sullivan Co. NY.