Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Marc St Louis on September 22, 2017, 10:39:57 am
-
I had someone come over a couple weeks ago with a bow from a local museum. The bow was made by a man called Victor Groulx who was of Algonquin decent, Victor died last month.
A bit of history of what I know about Victor: I met Victor many years ago and he was a bit of an odd person, he was at this time somewhat agoraphobic. Victor was raised in the bush and was for many years a trapper/hunter. About 30 years ago he developed an interest in his native heritage and started making bows and arrows, so far as I know Victor never used a bow for hunting. He did a lot of research and made many reproductions, most of which he donated to his local Museum. I remember going to visit Victor and he would tell me about how the Museum had mislabeled some of his work, which he tried to correct but gave up after awhile. He was an interesting man to talk with but a bit long winded for me (W.
Anyway, this woman, also an Algonquin, had come over with one of his bows. The top limb had been broken. I suspect what happened is that the bow had been "borrowed" for a play the woman was making with some local school children and one of the kids had yanked back on the string a bit too far. The bow was a nice looking, well decorated bow made of HHB backed with thin rawhide. It was short, haven't measured it but probably around 48", with slight recurves. The back is painted, there is quill work on the bow, strips of Weasel fur and what looks like tree bark wrap around the handle and tips. The only thing that detracts from the bow is the dacron string. My testing show that it was tillered to bend a bit too much in the outer limbs and that is why it failed there. Anyway, the rawhide had ripped and the back had suffered a serious tension failure. I told her I could fix it to look OK but there was no way it could ever be braced again.
It is a pity the Museum lent it out to someone that didn't know much about bows. Here are a few pictures that I took of the bow
-
That's really unfortunate. Looking forward to see it all fixed up. Have any other photos of his work? It would be great to see.
-
Yes that's unfortunate and did'nt need to happen I suspect.Good luck fixing it.Algonquin is a well known tribe.
These curators of these museums gotta get qualified people in there it seems.
You up for the job????Just joking.
-
very interesting, thanks for posting,, and good luck on the repair,, )P(
-
Hate to that happen to any museum piece, or even a vintage piece. It does look very good with the decorations. Good luck with the repair!
Hawkdancer
-
Yup pretty sure that didn't happen sitting on a shelf in a glass case Marc. :o
Bjrogg
-
Thanks, Marc. That is too bad. Jawge
-
Museums eh?
I was going round a country house ages ago, it had a wonderful bronze of Diana the huntress... yes, her recurve style bow was fitted round the wrong way. The bow was separate but they wouldn't be told it was wrong ::) ... wince-making to us folk.
Del
-
Some places are open to correction - I was at a National Trust place in Devon and they had a tall ship model in a glass case with several labels on the wrong bits. I (politely) gave my credentials - a few years working on tall ships - and pointed out where they should be. The guide called over the supervisor who asked me to write down where they should be, then said it was due to be taken out for cleaning in the next few weeks and the labels would be moved accordingly then. So he was either fobbing me off or graciously accepting correction ::)
-
That's to bad it's a beautiful bow !
-
The bow was braced and sitting in a glass last time I saw it :). There was a lot of splintering so the repair won't look great
I took several pictures of Victor's work at the museum many years ago. Here is the bow at the bottom
-
What a shame..In our State museum,,there is an old Native bow..It is sinew backed and re curved...It is also Strung backwards.. After at least 3 attempts to educate them otherwise...I finally gave up...
Seems leaving those bows leaning against the wall and braced,,isnt very good for em either..
-
Marc,, I bet its gonna look great,, just not shoot so good,, :)
-
Interesting story for sure. It's nice they were able to bring it to you to make it showable again. :)
-
Closer examination showed a perfectly smooth back to this bow which you wouldn't see on HHB so I think he took out all the ripples then backed it with rawhide, this would have violated a lot of growth rings.
Interesting story for sure. It's nice they were able to bring it to you to make it showable again. :)
My wife is part of that Algonquin community and I'm the only one they know that has the skill to save it.
-
Many examples of different tools,weapons,and accoutrements in that display of Victors.Chokers,breast plates,and shields.Looks like very nice work.Would'nt you say bows should be displayed on 2 pegs 2 to 3 foot apart horizontally against the wall for display?In fact most of those shaft type items should be.
I'm donating a self bow to the local museum here sometime but will tell them exactly the way it should be displayed.We had fox and osage tribes in this area.
-
What a nice display! would like to see that in person.
Sorry for that break and good luck for repair.
-
Victor was quite prolific. I took about a dozen pics of his work years ago and posted them on the old PA forum. Here is another photo of his stuff
-
Very cool. What's that thing with the claw, I believe it's number 17?
-
Very cool. What's that thing with the claw, I believe it's number 17?
Back scratcher?
-
No not a back scratcher although you should make one like it, try it and let us know how it works ;D
The aboriginals, up here anyway, knew that at a gathering there were those that would try to dominate so they had a system that you could only speak when you were allowed, in this case holding the talking stick. Here is a menu of the items
-
By the way, the description for item 15 is one of those that Victor tried to get the museum to change. It was not a flyswatter but I don't remember what he told me it is supposed to be.
-
thanks for sharing this Marc, very interesting. 48" is a tough bow to make from HHB without significant set, so he did a great job until someone wrecked it. I like the quills on the bow as well.
All the other artifacts look great as well.
Cheers,
Phil
-
Marc...Interesting post Marc.Back when I was buck skin rendezvousing I made many of the same things Victor shows of his work.The holder of the talking stick makes sense from what I know and have read about those type items.I'm sure Victors' significance of his staff was for something else but I used mine as a marker outside a lodge's door at large camps to let people know where I was.Since teepees did'nt have windows....lol.Although Victors' people probably did'nt live in teepees though.The staff I made is of ash with a Hudsons' Bay emblem laced into it and almost 7' tall.My fly swatter was a buffalo tail looking type quirt to the right.I still got a 12' teepee myself and have shown a little of what I made occasionally on the primitive skills section.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1801_zpsl11uc9bz.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1801_zpsl11uc9bz.jpg.html)
-
Re:#15, I vaguely remember reading that the Alqonquin nation made ornate " coup sticks", also made rather fancy lacrosse sticks. Could be either, possibly another talking stick, or lodge marker. It is a nice piece! And a beautiful collection! Too long for a fly swatter! Time to restudy anthropology and ethnology of Native American people!
Hawkdancer
-
Yes it could be a lodge marker
I finished the repair using hide glue, didn't want to use a modern glue on the bow. It looks OK but you can easily see the break on close examination, if you know what to look for. I did a bit of scraping on the belly to see if the ridges of the splinters could be removed, just a couple passes to see what it would look like. I used an Obsidian scraper but stopped right away as the contrast between the patina and the wood was too visible. It will have to stay that way to try and preserve it's original look
-
It looks pretty good, Marc. Hopefully, it stays in the display case after this! Any attempt to hide the break would change the authenticity?
Hawkdancer
-
Yes...That's really too bad that happened to that bow.It's a real wall hanger now.Very nice closer up pictures of the quill wrap work though with I'm sure natural pigments used that look pretty bright colored yet over the time period.I have quill wrapped leather fringe before with tolerable results but embroidery type quill work takes more practice then what I've given it.
Victor was a very prolific fella and I'm sure a lot of knowledge has disappeared now from his death.