Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: sleek on September 06, 2017, 05:30:48 pm
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A recent conversation and bow I am working on have made me realsise something. When It comes to a positive tiller ir piking we always say pike the lower limb, or make certain the lower is stiffer. Normally thats true. But why is it normally true? ( for the new guys and to establish a base for my argument )
We usually grip the bow and string below center line so the arrow is center. That makes the lower limb effectively shorter and as a result, it needs to be stiffer for proper balance. But if you put your hand center of the bow and arrow pass above it, you would want the upper limb stiffer, making that limb the ideal one to pike.
Just a realisation I just had and wanted to share. Many probably already know this. But for those who dont.....
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i am not sure I agree,, but,, I will say,
when you have a bow that does not have a marked arrow pass,,
you can lower your hold if you want the bow to shoot more positive tiller,,
or raise your hold ,
depending how the bow likes to shoot,,
your are making one limb shorter when you do that,,and there is a sweet spot,,,
or you can cut or mark the arrow pass,, and tiller the limbs so it shoots nice,,,,up to you,, (-P
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I like my limbs even or the bottom limb slightly stiffer at full draw.
The key question is how does the bow feel at full draw? Are the limbs balanced? Tippy?
As for piking, I am not a fan. It shifts the neutral plane of the bow causing more set.
Also, beginners will do well learning how to make weigh and the learning process will take longer with piking. JMO
Jawge
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Sleek, I think the thing to keep in mind is finding the balance between dynamic balance in the hand and the arrow coming back straight when you release the string. I like to nock the arrow about 1/4" above the rest so this usually leaves me with the bottom limb just a tad stiffer. I pay more attention to the arrow going straight forward on release than I do the dynamic balance in the hand because if it is close I can't feel it anyway. string does not return the same way we draw it, the string returns according to where the arrow is nocked.
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Or watch the set and aim for even strain....;) If one limb is working harder than the other you will get an imbalance that gets worse over time.
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I NEVER say 'make certain the lower limb is stiffer'. You're inquisitive though and not blindly following advice given by bowyers who can't adequately describe why. I like that. Question everyone and everything, do your own tests, better bows will result.
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I like a stiff lower limb but it's been awhile.lol
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"But if you put your hand center of the bow and arrow pass above it, you would want the upper limb stiffer, making that limb the ideal one to pike. "
Sleek, I could be wrong...I'm wrong a lot, but as I understood it by the statement I copied from you above, that really makes the bottom limb longer, making it a longer lever, which in turn makes that limb easier to pull back compared to the shorter top limb. That is why I would want the bottom limb more stiff.
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Given a theoretical even straight bow.
When asymmetrical (like ELB): positive tiller, stronger lower limb
whensymmetrical (like many native indian bows): equal tiller, upper a thad stiffer
just my thinking...
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"But if you put your hand center of the bow and arrow pass above it, you would want the upper limb stiffer, making that limb the ideal one to pike. "
Sleek, I could be wrong...I'm wrong a lot, but as I understood it by the statement I copied from you above, that really makes the bottom limb longer, making it a longer lever, which in turn makes that limb easier to pull back compared to the shorter top limb. That is why I would want the bottom limb more stiff.
No you are right. I had two scenatios in my mind and typed the wrong one. Lol. Nice catch.
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It's my belief that the sorter-lower-stiffer idea came about when bowyers were married to blind tradition . Several thoughts come to mind. An otherwise equal limb WILL be stiffer if it is shorter. But why should anyone want it to be stiffer. It has less distance to travel and will tend to win the sprint anyway.
What we should want is to have the limbs return AT THE SAME TIME.