Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: JackCrafty on March 12, 2008, 05:46:11 pm
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Maybe it's coincidence but my short bow with almost zero hand shock shoots like crap and the one that rattles my brain shoots pretty darn good. The bow design (48" gull wing) and arrow speeds are identical but the draw lengths and draw weights are different. The accurate shooter is juniper - 40# @22" draw and the other is hophornbeam - 45# @20".
The hophornbeam bow fires arrows like a rocket launcher......and the draw and release are smooth. But the arrows jump off the string and then "fizzle" soon after. The arrows fired off the juniper bow, on the other hand, fly straight and level (as far as I can tell.....if I'm not distracted by my chattering teeth). When shooting the two side-by-side, the effective range on the hophornbeam is half that of the juniper.
Maybe it's "arrow vibration" causing the problem? Maybe it's the draw length? Maybe it's the wood species? Maybe it's me? (prolly :-\)
Anyway, here's the question: What have you done to ensure that your short bow doesn't act like a spoiled brat? I know mine are spoiled rotten. ;D
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Great question!!!!
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No idea, I'm not good enough to tell. ;D
Sean
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My first question would be how wide are the tips? Heavier wood requires skinnier tips. Knowing a species is lighter might make you think it's ok to leave the tips wide; I always narrow mine. Option two is to use a heavier string on the juniper bow. It slows cast somewhat but if it already shoots twice as well as the hornbeam, a "slightly" heavier string shouldn't slow the arrow too badly. Option three is a heavier arrow. Bottom line is, the more energy needed to throw the arrow, the less there is is shock the hand. By the way, I love short bows too. 68'' is just too long out here. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
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What Ben said would be my first things to try. :)
Pappy
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Patrick, I spent about 2 hours last night shooting and tring to figure out what works. My best shooting only came once I made sure I was pulling the string and noticablely pushing the bow during the release. Also, my heavier bow (50+ @ 22") was faster but much more critical to form than a lighter weight bow. The stronger bow is center shot and shoots a wide range of arrow spines where as the lighter bow is not center shoot and is much less tolarent of different arrow spines.
I shot 24, 29 and 36" arrows, the 29" arrows shot more consistant.
The 2 bows i used last night were: 50" ~54 @ 22" sinewed osage (plains style) and a 53" ~40 @ 22" sinewed osage (Ishi stlye).
I think if I reduce the weight of the stronger bow, combined with it being center shot it should be a great shooter.
As far as hand shock, I feel very little if any in my short bows. I haven't finished any of the juniper bows yet so not sure how the shoot. I find arrow weight changes hand shock more than most other things.
I'll reduce the weight of the stronger bow this weekend and report back.
Donnie
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Thanks for the responses guys!
OK...here are some more specifics on my situation:
The juniper bow's tips are a little less that 1/2" wide with wrapped "shoulders" for the nocks...so the tips are pretty light. The hand shock is mostly vibration shock. If I grip the bow loosely, the shock goes away but I loose some accuracy. The widest part of the limbs is 1 1/8" and the last 8" are tapered toward the tips. The sting is sinew, so a heavier string will probably work better. I will try using a heavier linen string. This should also reduce the "stretch effect" at the end of the release (vibration). I will also start using arrows that are 10 grains in weight for every # of draw.
The HHB bow is a mystery: I'm still trying to figure out why it has no hand shock. The limbs are narrow (1") and taper from the grip to the tips. It has a natural gull wing shape and it was easy to tiller. It has a sinew string. It weighs about an ounce more than the juniper (9.5 oz) and is braced @ 5" (1" less than the juniper). It shoots a 300 grain arrow @ 105 fps (the juniper shoots same arrow @ 109 fps). Since it stores about the same amount of energy...I would think that the hand shock would be about the same as the juniper. I also think that the arrows should fly with the same trajectory from both bows? (Nope-Nope) :-\
I'm aslo trying to figure out why the arrows seem to loose energy in flight when fired from the HHB bow....although I think they might be "fishtailing" slightly as they leave the bow?.....it's hard to tell. I'm going to try arrows with different lengths and types of tapering to see which type works best. Right now, I'm using 26" barrelled shafts with the center of mass (balancing point) in the middle. This arrow style works well on all my other bows but maybe the HHB is a bit quirky. Maybe I'll shave it down so that it pulls 45# @ 22" instead of 20"....and see if that changes anything.
I'll keep you posted.
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i have no intelegent answer but your talk of the brain rattlin hand shock made me choke on a pice of popcorn. thanx for the murder atempt bud.
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patrick, could you post some pictures of the two bows? if it's the design, it would be much easier to tell by looking at them (at least for the experts on here, which by the way doesn't include me ;D )
question for everybody (and i don't mean to diminish your bows by any means. it's just to show how little i know): 105/109 fps at an arrowweight of 7.5/6.7 gr/lbs seems slow (at least to me). is that normal for shorties?
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105/109 fps at an arrowweight of 7.5/6.7 gr/lbs seems slow (at least to me). is that normal for shorties?
No, it's not. My 48" selfbows shoot 10gr. /lbs. arrows around 135 fps, while 7-8gr. /lbs arrows (more appropriate for the low-energy draws) reach 150-160fps. Flight shafts (250gr. total mass) leave them at around 190.
Tuukka
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Recurve Shooter....put tobasco on that popcorn next time! >:D ;D >:D
Dusty.....ain't got a camera right now.....and I'm too busy spending my money on "materials". But I can tell you that the bows I mentioned here have limbs that are too heavy (after reading about the "mass principle"). And yes, 105-109 fps is below average even for a shorty drawing @ 22". I'm in the process of re-tillering the juniper bow right now. On a side note.....I thought that flax (linen) strings would be heavier than sinew but they are not!....unless the flax is heavily waxed.
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Sumpitan, if you don't mind my asking, how heavy are your 48'' bows and what is the draw on those?
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jackcrafty, Had to look who started this thread cause it could have been me!!! :D
I made a short bow ( that is very pleasant to shoot ... no handshock) that I wanted to use for turkey but doesn't hit the target like I had hoped!!!! >:D
My most recent is a longer bow with a ton of handshock but puts the arrows right where I'm looking!!! ;)
Will be reading with interest!!!
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My 48's draw anywhere from 35 to 55lbs @20-21 inches.
Tuukka
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I have made only a few shorty bows(48" to 60") and all seem to be quicker than my longer bows(62" to 66"+). I believe with less limb mass, do to shorter limbs, you get higher speed. One thing I did notice when shooting my first shorty, I had a hard time hitting what I was shooting at. I had to really concentrate on my form, how I held the bow and how smoothly I released. After many shooting sessions and many arrows I began to get "in the groove".
Shorty bows are a different animal than a standard length or an overbuilt(length and width) bow. Once you get the hang of shooting these small bows your shooting with longer bows will have become even better. Pat
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"Once you get the hang of shooting these small bows your shooting with longer bows will have become even better. "
Yup, that's my plan!! ;D ;)
OK, maybe not but if it happens then I'll be happy. I just like the short bows in the crowded woods and I don't like treestands.
I'd check limb tips, arrow weight and release. But then again, it's been said by better people than me. :-\
possum
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Well I lowered the weight of the stronger bow to around 47#'s. It made the bow/me shoot tons better. I'm hitting pine cones consistantly at 35 yards with 26" 500 grain cane arrows. I wrapped a little sinew at 22.5" to keep my draw lenght consistant. I feel like I can shoot better now than I ever did with a 27" draw.
Also, found that tiller changes hand shock somewhat. When I reduced the weight I also retillered the bow and it made a great difference in the feel and shootablity.
take care,
Donnie