Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: osage outlaw on February 11, 2017, 09:29:05 pm

Title: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: osage outlaw on February 11, 2017, 09:29:05 pm
I'm trying to find a lower cost option for sealing staves.  I have always used polyurethane and I'm tired of paying $35 for a gallon it.  Tonight I picked up a gallon of TBII wood glue for half the cost of the polyurethane.  I remember someone saying they watered down glue to seal staves.  Does anyone do this or know the ratio of glue to water?  I would like to get it thin enough to paint on with a brush. 
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: burchett.donald on February 11, 2017, 10:08:28 pm
 Been using hairspray for a long time...Comes off with water, never looked back ;)
                                                                                                                          Don
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: penderbender on February 11, 2017, 10:18:42 pm
Been using hairspray for a long time...Comes off with water, never looked back ;)doesn't that defeat the purpose? I have used tight bond 3 to seal the ends of staves I don't usually debark so don't know about that. But it dries clear and gives a good seal. You can water it down too. Don't know exact ratio, I just make it a decent concistany. Cheers- Brendan
                                                                                                                          Don
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Pat B on February 11, 2017, 10:29:35 pm
Clint, I've gotten staves before that were sealed with wood glue like TB but I don't know how it was mixed. With the paper mache like my wife does she thins the glue pretty thin. I think she just pours water in until it is the consistency she likes. That's how I did it with the figures I did with paper mache.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: BowEd on February 11, 2017, 10:34:07 pm
Sounds like a good idea watering down the glue to use as a sealer.Should do the job.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Trapper Rob on February 11, 2017, 11:01:01 pm
Clint somebody told me they mix it half & half.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: justsomedude on February 12, 2017, 12:03:52 am
Titebond is probably overkill and it isn't as easy to clean up as Elmer's glue.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: mikekeswick on February 12, 2017, 03:55:40 am
Buy PVA glue that they use in construction as a general purpose sealer/adhesive.
It is cheap as chips and you just mix with water until its the consistency you want. Obviously the thinner you go the less of a good job it does at sealing though. I just use it as is. Very effective stuff.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: chamookman on February 12, 2017, 03:59:39 am
Clint - Always used watered down plain Elmers Glue. 50/50 is about right - You can really mop it on with a brush. Bob
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: stuckinthemud on February 12, 2017, 04:56:25 am
I use PVA without water - I rub it all over the end and the first four inches of the stave with my hand cos I'm too cheap to buy a brush >:D
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Stick Bender on February 12, 2017, 05:51:42 am
I have never done it but Elmer's sells a spray adhesive I use for a lot of stuff it sells for cheap around the beginning of the school year pretty easy to clean up
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Dances with squirrels on February 12, 2017, 06:13:31 am
I like brush-on shellac because it survives the steam tube intact, but it isn't cheap nowadays.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: osage outlaw on February 12, 2017, 07:36:50 am
I've never heard of sealing staves with hairspray.  How good of a job does it do on keeping them from checking on the ends and back?

I'll look into the PVA glue.  What brand name are you guys using?

I go through 3-4 gallons of polyurethane a year so I don't think I want to mess with any small spray bottles of glue. 
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: stuckinthemud on February 12, 2017, 08:18:14 am
Not any particular brand, just the biggest cheapest bottle of builders general use pva
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: LittleBen on February 12, 2017, 08:45:08 am
Maybe just try titebond I. It's a lot cheaper than TBIII and for sealing the end of a stave or log should be just fine, never tried it though.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: osage outlaw on February 12, 2017, 08:58:30 am
I'm using it to seal the backs of staves also.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 12, 2017, 09:06:00 am
Are just cutting osage or black locust?  Jawge
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Pat B on February 12, 2017, 09:16:04 am
Aren't TB glues PVA glue?
Osage, Jawge.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: osage outlaw on February 12, 2017, 09:22:54 am
90% osage.   With a little black locust, Hackberry, hickory, etc. mixed in.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Stick Bender on February 12, 2017, 09:28:06 am
Probably could get 30 plus staves for $1.99 on sale Wally world !
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: justsomedude on February 12, 2017, 09:43:13 am
I only get Titebond original and Titebond III. Original is half the price of III. We don't need it to be waterproof do we? I don't want to waste my Shellac if I don't need to
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: JonW on February 12, 2017, 10:09:24 am
Knox gelatine is really cheap and multipupose. I use it to seal the backs so it doesn't interfere with the sinew process.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: wizardgoat on February 12, 2017, 12:59:50 pm
Clint, I buy the cheapest wood glue I can find.
I have it in a bucket, and add water until it's a good consistency.
Not sure the ratio. I dip my staves, quicker than painting
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Mo_coon-catcher on February 12, 2017, 01:03:04 pm
I tried parafin wax for a while. It was messy and a pain in the but for any quantity of staves. The last couple years I've been using the same gallon jug of the cheapest elmers glue I could get. It seems to work well and is easy enough to clean up. Pour some in a cup and brush it on. It's cheap and washes away with water, so just slather it on and don't worry about the mess.

Kyle
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: tattoo dave on February 12, 2017, 01:58:48 pm
I've used TB3 many times. I water it down just enough to be able to brush it on. Works great. After it dries. Sand it with a 320 or even 400 grit sand paper to smooth it out. TB3 is waterproof after it dries. TB2 is not.

Tattoo Dave
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Dances with squirrels on February 12, 2017, 08:04:31 pm
We don't need it to be waterproof? Really?

Took another HHB stave out of the steamer today, and another off the form. Shellac looked perfect.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: dirthas on February 12, 2017, 08:32:08 pm
Not glue, but a while back I melted some beeswax into some mineral oil with a 50/50 approx. volume ratio, making a grainy paste. I rub it on the bow, leave it overnight, then take off the excess and rub in the rest the next day. Works great and makes osage look awesome. Definitely not high gloss, more of a dull, natural shine. If you're looking for cheap, for about $10 this would last me 7 - 8 bows.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: osage outlaw on February 12, 2017, 09:01:05 pm
I'm not looking for a bow finish.  Just something to seal fresh cut staves
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: upstatenybowyer on February 12, 2017, 09:02:50 pm
I've always used regular school glue (Elmer's or the like). But I never thought about knox. That's really cheap and I use it for sinew. Thanks Jon!
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Selfbowman on February 12, 2017, 09:12:27 pm
Clint the staves I got from you did not check. If I need to pay $1-2 more I Know it works. Lots of good subjection here though. Arvin
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: TSA on February 12, 2017, 09:28:00 pm
not to interfere, but we seal every block of wood that goes through our place- and that is a lot- i have tried quite a few different things. glue- it seems to flake off after a while, those proper log sealing emulsions- like "anchorseal" they get porous after a year or so.  what i have found to work the best is plain old wax- we buy it in slabs by the 100# but you can buy smaller blocks from the craft stores for making candles, heat it up outside and dip the ends in. it lasts the best- is the ultimate seal.- just what we have found!
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Buckeye Guy on February 12, 2017, 09:34:57 pm
Clint try a smaller batch to see how you like it glue is great for ends but I prefer shellac for backs
but if you find that you like the glue let me know as I have excess to some for you ! pm me my friend
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Pat B on February 12, 2017, 10:57:44 pm
I prefer shellac too. I don't seal lots of wood so it is economical enough. I buy it in a spray can because it has unlimited shelf life. Ant time I expose a new back, new wood or old, I seal it. Most staves I get have the ends sealed but if I cut the end(s) off I will spray it with shellac.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: osage outlaw on February 12, 2017, 11:04:10 pm
I don't think wax will work for what I need.  I seal the backs of the staves when I remove the sapwood or if the stave is a belly split.  I move them around a lot after they are sealed so the wax will probably get damaged and knocked off.  I'm not worried about being able to easily remove the sealer on the backs of the staves.  They will need to have a ring chased later down the road. 

Thanks for all the ideas guys.  It has generated some informative discussion.  I am going to experiment with watered down glue later this week.  I'll post the results and the mixture ratio.

Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: osage outlaw on February 12, 2017, 11:12:57 pm
How many coats do you guys typically use to seal a fresh cut stave that you removed the sapwood?  I seal the ends twice when I cut the tree.  Then when I split it into staves I'll seal the backs at least twice and coat the ends again with each coat.  I have had very good results doing it that way.  In fact, I have more problems with staves checking on the backs when I leave the bark on them instead of removing it and sealing them. 
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Pappy on February 13, 2017, 08:06:02 am
I just water cheap wood glue down, about 25% water and keep it in a bucket with a big paint brush, always has worked for me and is easy to remove. ;)
 Pappy
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: Josh B on February 13, 2017, 08:15:13 am
I buy cheap elmers glue in the gallon jug.  Don't even water it down.  I just pour a stream down the back and spread it around with a brush.  Works for me.  I do dip the ends into a gallon can of poly and let it set up for a half hour or so first though.  Josh
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: High-Desert on February 13, 2017, 12:04:23 pm
I just switched from using glue to using spray shellac since it dries quick and convenient to hike with. I can put it on as soon as I cut, and get the staves hiked out. I used straight glue before, but it gets cover in dirt on the hike and in the back of the truck. I never cut it with water tho. It probably not critical, whatever is the most convientient for you.

Eric
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: bradsmith2010 on February 13, 2017, 01:31:03 pm
paint will work,, :)
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: osage outlaw on February 13, 2017, 02:18:10 pm
paint will work,, :)

That makes it hard to see the rings on the ends.
Title: Re: Sealing staves with glue
Post by: osage outlaw on February 19, 2017, 09:16:22 pm
I mixed the TB II with about an equal amount of water and tested it out on the ends of some logs today.  The mixture was thin enough to paint on easily.  It seemed to work fine.  I'll put a couple more coats on just to make sure.