Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: FlintWalker on March 10, 2008, 10:36:35 pm
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I finally got around to reflexing the limbs and straightening that skinny little sliver of osage I was gonna burn. I messed up and took it down another ring because the back wasn't perfect resulting in some pretty thin limbs. I should have left them, because I was gonna sinew it anyway.
Now they are a little under 1/2" thick with tillering left to do.
It's 1" wide at the handle, tapering gradually to the tips and 57" long. I want to make a bendy handle and sinew it but don't know how thick to make the handle. I mean I don't have a clue as to where to begin ???
I know I won't get much weight from it, but I want to try it anyway. Who knows, it might make a good kids bow at least. Saw Filer
BTW, when should I sinew it and would Tite Bond II be OK, or would you use hide glue?
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I bet this will make a Nice Bow....and 1/2" of Hedge is a good chunk...don't underestimate it...not yet!! I would Sinew Back it as soon as you have it Floor Tillered...and being that it is so thin....I would put three layers on it....at least that is what I do with it....others may disagree with this...but I always do....then let it sit for a Month to make sure that the Sinew is good and dry...and the extra Moisture in the Bow is gone from the Sinew Job you just did....
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1/2" is darn thick for osage. Ill bet you can still get 60# out of it easily. If you sinew it you will have no problem getting 60#. If you want a bendy handle it shout be maybe 1/16" thicker than the rest of the limbs then you can tiller it. I would tiller it a little then sinew it also. Justin
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I'd start with a few growth rings above the plain of the limbs and adjust that thickness as you tiller. You only want the handle area to flex a bit at full draw anyway.
Thats gonna make a sweet lil bow. Pat
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How far would you tiller it? Just get it to brace, then sinew it or not even brace it? What about the glue? Sorry for all the questions, this is new territory for me. Shannon
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I have only made a few sinewed bows. One was fully tillered and shot in when I sinewed it and others were half tillered. You will want to draw the bow in a bit of reflex while adding the sinew and by per-tillering you get a nice even bend through out the limbs.
TiteBond III will work with sinew. I have seen and shot a few bows like this and they preform well. . If you have hide glue, the bow and you will benefit from the experience. ;) Pat
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Don't mess with the Titebond 3...unless you want to soak your Sinew in warm Water to soften it up first....use Hide Glue...and if you cant get any....which it isn't hard to get...look on the Internet for any Violin Restorer...or ever 3 Rivers and such.... I get mine from the Violin Restorers ....it seems to be a lot stronger Glue....and it sets slower too...so you can get smoother work....and if you cant wait for the Hide Glue....there is always Knox.....Or even Titebond Hide Glue...but to me this is too thin....I prefer the real deal myself........Do the Sinew...take your time ...and you will learn a great deal....I guarantee you.......
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OK. So here's the plan... I'll tiller it to brace or just a little past, just to make sure the limbs are bending even. I'll get some hide glue somewhere and use it. I've read somewhere that hide glue lets the sinew draw the bow into reflex more than tite bond anyway. I don't think i'll need to add any more reflex than what it has since it already has probably too much anyway. I'll just leave it with what it has after tillering it a bit.
Sinew it. Wait, wait and wait some more and get back to the questions after waiting some more. ;D
If anybody has any better ideas, i'd really like to hear them.
Saw Filer
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I like the knox unflavored gelatin very well, it is pure clean hide glue. I used to use fish glue from Lee Valley for several years, I like it alot but it tends to stay tacky, a nice coat of tb 3 after it cures with a smake skin takes care of that/ As far as thickness goes I think form this point on I would rely on tiller shape and adjusting and tillering rather than measuring the thickness. Are you familiar with the term floor tillering? Pushing the bow to the floor while you hold the handle and the upper limb to check the bend. You are proably going to be pretty close so while you are waiting for the sinew to dry you might start studying up on tillering or even practice on a few red oak boards from lowes. Steve
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If you tiller it quite a bit it makes it easier to pull it back into reflex while you add the sinew. Sinew is amazing in tension and pulling it a little into reflex will increase your performance a lot. Justin
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Here's some pictures of the tiller so far.
The first one is braced @ 6"
The second is pulled to 20" from the back of the bow. At that point it's only drawing about 29# I'm afraid I won't be able to get 50# out of it at my 27" draw.
The third picture is immediately after unstringing it. It has 2-1/2" of reflex
I don't know what to expect from about 3 layers of sinew as far as how much weight it might pick up. I suppose I could temper the belly and gain a few pounds.
What to do, what to do? ??? ??? ???
Saw Filer
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Looking good sawfiler. You should be able to expect about 3-4 lbs. per inch of draw. And I would anticipate that the sinew will add possibly 5-10 lbs as well. So you might just make it after all. Keenan
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Dang...it looks good....but I sure would not have thought that it would only be 29 pounds....a half an inch of Sage is quite a Bit normally....you can expect to gain...maybe 15 pounds with the three layers o Sinew.....and heat treating the Belly...I mean 1 inch at the Handle is a little thinner than I would have went....but I do have one that is 1 inch from the center to 6 inches from the Tips.....and then narrows.....to 1/2" tips....and it is right at 58 pounds ....with no backing....but you might be surprised how much you will gain in the last 7 inches of Draw on it....it might fool you.......
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Right now you are really close to 50# at 27" so with sinew and some good tillering, you should be in good shape. You could remove a little wood in the handle area if you are looking for a bendy handle bow. You could also remove a little from the outer limbs. Justin
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It's bending a visible amount right up to the 4" handle area and I still have a little narrowing to do on the tips. I'm not really sure how far to take it before adding the sinew.
I've decided that no matter what weight I end up with, i'm gonna do it anyway!
Here's a picture of the thickness at the handle and at mid limb, not much over 3/8".
Micheal, I would have started with a lot more wood, but that was all I had. This was just a scrap I cut from another stave. It was headed to the stove, but I thought I might get something out of it.
Thanks for the input guys, I'll keep you posted. Saw Filer
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Shannon its looking really good, does your wife shoot? Could surprise her with a new bow
if ya don't make your weight :) Next time ya think about burning them scraps just send em my way ;)
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Shannon,
I'm with you...notorius about salvaging osage from the cook fire. Pappy often says..."gotta have fire", I just try and make sure the coals I'm lookin' at and enjoying the warmth couldn't have made a decent bow. I'm working on one right now that has a worm hole through the limb and the handle area had splits in it. I'll have to build up the handle some with leather to get it to feel okay, although it has strength.
I agree that you could heat treat the belly some and pick up weight. Might could recurve the tips a little more and add some also, though it could make the sinew a little more tricky. Probably would need to use short lengths of sinew on the recurved portion of the limb if you go that route. Looking good though! :)
Buildin' any knifes lately? ;)
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Well I tillered it out a littled farther. I went out to 26" and at this point have 40#. I'll never make 50, but who cares. I have a little 45#'er that shoots faster than most of my other 50-55# bows and I just have a feeling with a little sinew, this one might just do the same.
The tiller has been kinda hard to read on this one for me, lots of little dips and humps, but I think I have it pretty close.
The first picture is after I narrowed the tips, got a little snake to it. ;D The second is it at 26" and the third is right after unstringing it. The little booger is still holding 1-5/8" reflex. Not bad for 1" wide and 55" ntn
I have all my sinew sorted out and ready. All i'm waiting on is the hide glue to get here.
I don't have one of them fancy glue heaters, anybody have any good tips on how to heat the glue and what to degrease the back with?
Thanks ahead of time, Saw Filer
Oh and Greg! I haven't made any knives lately, got bows on my mind again. But don't worry, I won't show up at Pappy's without you one ;D
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I always degrease with Acetone...but have heard of people using Lye....Oven Cleaner....and all sorts of other Caustic stuff....If you don't have a Sinew Pot....I would say look for a small double Boiler....or an egg poacher....they both work well....or like what I started out with ....a Corell Bowl ...floating in a Sauce Pan of hot water....not too hot....just hot enough where you cant keep your fingers in it too long...you don't want to scorch the Glue.....I bought a small Crock Pot from Wal Mart I think ....for like 14 bucks ....and it works great for this purpose
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Looking good shannon.
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Shannon, thats amassingly similar to one Ive been working on. ;D
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I guess great minds think alike Ryan ;) ;) ;D
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If you mix your hide glue in a glass bottle you can use your wife's candle warmer to keep it warm. If she doesn't have one you can buy one for $10-$15 at most craft stores. You cant over heat the glue with the candle warmer and I think you would have to try real hard to start a fire with it. It is about the safest way to keep it warm that I have found.
BTWThe one I have going has a thicker handle, but the profile is extremely similar. I have 2 courses of sinew on mine now. ;D Justin