Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DC on January 31, 2017, 12:32:33 pm
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When you are making a bow with no shelf do you still shape the area? Like dip it in a bit for more center shot. Or do you have both sides symmetrical? I dip mine in a bit and shape it so the arrow rests on the forward edge of the bow. Just curious how others do it.
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I usually go in a little more on the arrow pass side.
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It works out all kinds of ways. Usually, I just go narrow at the upper end of the grip and glue on a leather side plate or a tiny slim rest with the handle wrap. But, I've been known to "fudge" it to one side when establishing width flares, or tilting the handle like 3 degrees toward diagonal, if I feel like it and have plenty of wood.
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I dish mine out on the arrow pass side and build up a shelf with leather or use a floppy rest. Here lately I've been carving in a shelf and I really like how it looks and shoots.
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Usually I have one side of the stave a bit curved the way the grain runs and I use that side of the handle for the arrow to pass if that makes sense to you the way I explained it. Even if I have a touch of string misalignment at the handle towards the arrow pass side, I don't mind as long as it centres properly on the rest of the stave.
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Arrow pass clearance and cutouts, a little to a lot, ONLY change which arrows shoot best out of your bow. They do NOT improve consistency unless you are shooting mixed spined arrows.
I never make the arrow pass narrower than the handle. It has never created an issue. I find out which arrows shoot well out of the bow and that's what I shoot.
With this takedown, the arrow passes on the metal above the leather, so I guess the pass is narrower by the thickness of the leather, but it's 1-1/8" wide there.
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I would only suggest you stay fairly consistent from bow to bow in regards to how far off center you are i.e. grip width, that way you can shoot various bows where you are looking. I make mine all the same, I simply glue a rest on or I shoot off knuckle. The handle width remains either way.
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I try to make the pass 1/2" from center on all my bows. Since most of them are within #5 of each other I can use the same arrows.
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I cut my shelf in to string and leave what everyone else adds. Arvin
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Make your bow and get it shooting. Then have a look where the mark is that the passage of the arrows has left. Remove material until that mark is in the center (front to back) of the handle. I rarely see this talked about.
As Asharrow says centershot or not doesn't make any difference to consistency/accuracy other than which arrows you have to use.
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I dish it is some on the arrows pass side, and as Pearl said I try to do all my bows about the same, so my cant can stay consistent from bow to bow when I am shooting them. :)
Pappy
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Make your bow and get it shooting. Then have a look where the mark is that the passage of the arrows has left. Remove material until that mark is in the center (front to back) of the handle. I rarely see this talked about.
As Asharrow says centershot or not doesn't make any difference to consistency/accuracy other than which arrows you have to use.
I read in TBB4, I think, that the contact point should be as far forward as you can. Minimising the arrow angle I think. Why do you say middle as opposed to forward. It's probably a niggley point anyway :D
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Make your bow and get it shooting. Then have a look where the mark is that the passage of the arrows has left. Remove material until that mark is in the center (front to back) of the handle. I rarely see this talked about.
As Asharrow says centershot or not doesn't make any difference to consistency/accuracy other than which arrows you have to use.
+1.Good subject.It's the way I make my arrow passes too.I want the least amount of obstruction or resistance for my arrow I can get.Usually only 1/16" area or less that the arrow rides on.Laying an arrow at brace on there to check it.Fronts of the fletching tapered smooth too.1 reason why I shoot off the knuckle too.
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I was surprised when I stopped using a shelf. I expected to get wacked in the hand but I feel nothing. I found that if I lower the nock point until I can feel the arrow go by and then raise it a touch everything seems to work.
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Another option besides a shelf is offset limbs. I've been intentionally offsetting my limbs on my last two bows, and working on the 3rd now. Essentially, I steam the handle and bend it towards the side that will be the arrow pass which brings the string alignment much closer to center shot. I don't go all the way to center shot, but it can't be much more than 1/4'' off. Like Asharrow said, it only significantly improves your consistency with mixed spine arrows. I've been able to get good flight out of everything from 60-75# spine with my favorite 74# bow. It's not a noticeable improvement over a bow that has a centered string alignment and properly matched arrows.. but I don't like to spend a bunch of time closely matching my arrows because I lose and break too many. It's a sensible adjustment for me. With the offset limbs I've just been focusing on matching sets of arrows to within 10 grains weight or so, and not focusing too much on spine.
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I'm really interested in your results with this. I'm of the opinion that if this is done the bow will just twist in your hand the few degrees necessary to balance things out. The only way to get closer to center shot is to make the pass abrupt, like right at the arrow pass. The string will find a straight path from the tips through the center of the handle. I'm defining "center" as the place where the pressure of your hand bears on the handle. As an example if you offset the limbs a bunch you will feel the bow twist in your hand as you draw it. Even with a tiny bit of offset it will twist until the tips, the "center" of the handle and your drawing hand are all on the same plane. If you fight this you will torque the bow and your shot will be off.
Remember, this is an opinion :D :D
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Interesting theory DC. I can see why the bow would seem to torque in the hand, theoretically, but I can't say I've really noticed it. I should be all settled into the new shop in the next two weeks or so and ready for some extensive testing. I'm really looking forward to some more hands on testing because the author that wrote about it in one of the early 1990's issues of PA Magazine was very pleased with his results. I will definitely take the time to dig out the issue and write a proper post. I know which box it's in it's just buried at the moment.
I guess the only thing I have at this point that helps understand why I'm not feeling torque in the hand is that you mention " if you offset the limbs a bunch you will feel the bow twist in your hand"; but it actually takes a very slight adjustment at the handle to bring the string alignment significantly towards the arrow pass side. I would say that both tips are being moved maybe 1/2" after steaming.
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The only problem I have if the string is not down the center of the handle is String slap gets worse, so I always want my close to center and just deal with the arrow flight by spine or dished in at the arrow pass. :)
Pappy
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Interesting theory DC. I can see why the bow would seem to torque in the hand, theoretically, but I can't say I've really noticed it. I should be all settled into the new shop in the next two weeks or so and ready for some extensive testing. I'm really looking forward to some more hands on testing because the author that wrote about it in one of the early 1990's issues of PA Magazine was very pleased with his results. I will definitely take the time to dig out the issue and write a proper post. I know which box it's in it's just buried at the moment.
I guess the only thing I have at this point that helps understand why I'm not feeling torque in the hand is that you mention " if you offset the limbs a bunch you will feel the bow twist in your hand"; but it actually takes a very slight adjustment at the handle to bring the string alignment significantly towards the arrow pass side. I would say that both tips are being moved maybe 1/2" after steaming.
I've been thinkin'. Tung oil is drying and there's nothing else to do :D I still think what I said is true, at least while you're drawing the bow, but when you release it the string heads for it's braced position. I forgot that part. In your case this is offset a bit so maybe it is a good thing. There would still be some twisting going on but a loose grip would probably cover that. In any case a slight change in spine would equalise it.
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I do what makes the bow shoot well,, usually dont have to do much if the arrow is close to spine,, but I am not afraid to dish it there if needed,, as your release and hold on the bow becomes better,, the bow will be more fogiving,, and if the pass is reasonable,, you can tune the bow to shoot very well,, doing very little,, :) I guess my point is,, the way you are holding and shooting the bow,, is having more effect on your arrow flight,, than a small amount of wood at the pass,,
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With no shelf I sometimes narrow the handle equally on both sides and sometimes a bit more on the arrow pass side. I tend to shape the arrow pass so the arrow touches the back of the handle although the reverse if it's a flightbow. I have shaped the handle to have the arrow pass closer to center, by request, like this
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Yep those are trade mark handles I recognize the handiwork of.I'm wondering though if in a highly reflexed design though whether that compromizes it's integrity any.Maybe longer fades help?
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The only reason I bring the arrow rest area higher is for a better site picture. Those gappers like that. Arvin
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As stated, I like to shape so the arrow is contacting as little as possible. Then I take a thin piece of leather and shave the edges with a razor so it's fatter in the middle than the edge and glue on.