Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: upstatenybowyer on January 22, 2017, 01:03:51 pm
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So I've got this stave of erc with plenty of heartwood to make an all-heartwood bow, but there's a lot of sapwood above it that will have to be removed to do so. I know there's some debate about whether the heartwood or sapwood is superior, but either way, I've made a mostly-sapwood bow and I'd really like to make one that's mostly heartwood, mostly because of its beauty.
Anyway, assuming I'd back the bow with sinew or rawhide, is it best to attempt to chase a ring, not worrying too much about violating because it will be backed, or should I proceed as if decrowning and go for parallel lines running all the way down the back?
Thanks :)
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I had a flawless ERC stave I bought online. I had the same thinking as you, I successfully belly split off the heartwood so clean, it left a mostly unviolated heartwood stave. I backed it with rawhide, and make a nice shooting lightweight longbow. I shared a few pics in a recent thread.
I haven't done anything with the sapwood stave yet.
I've seen a lot of ERC selfbows utilizing the sapwood and heartwood much like a yew bow.
I believe the heartwood has a little better compression strength, but it's just a hunch.
For sinew backed yew or juniper I always plow through the back shaping it how I want not worrying about growth rings. I'll be more careful with rawhide though
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I had a flawless ERC stave I bought online. I had the same thinking as you, I successfully belly split off the heartwood so clean, it left a mostly unviolated heartwood stave. I backed it with rawhide, and make a nice shooting lightweight longbow. I shared a few pics in a recent thread.
I haven't done anything with the sapwood stave yet.
I've seen a lot of ERC selfbows utilizing the sapwood and heartwood much like a yew bow.
I believe the heartwood has a little better compression strength, but it's just a hunch.
For sinew backed yew or juniper I always plow through the back shaping it how I want not worrying about growth rings. I'll be more careful with rawhide though
Thanks goat. Haven't heard the term "belly split" before. What is that exactly?
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A few years ago I saw and shot an all sapwood ERC, ELB style bow. No heartwood at all. I was amazed how well it shot and how little set there was in this little 45# bow.
If you have a bandsaw you can saw the sapwood off then clean up the heartwood.
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I know gundocs holey erc self bow is all heartwood
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A few years ago I saw and shot an all sapwood ERC, ELB style bow. No heartwood at all. I was amazed how well it shot and how little set there was in this little 45# bow.
If you have a bandsaw you can saw the sapwood off then clean up the heartwood.
Pat, is that the bow I shot at your first Camporama? If so, I was getting ready to say the same. It was smooth, and very fast, with very little heartwood.
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I think you're thinking of Simon's cable backed holie ERC Bub. Mine was 90% sapwood. Josh
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Thanks goat. Haven't heard the term "belly split" before. What is that exactly?
A belly split is when the stave is thick enough to split it with a growth ring and get 2 or more staves from it.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/SDC14298.jpg)
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Thanks goat. Haven't heard the term "belly split" before. What is that exactly?
A belly split is when the stave is thick enough to split it with a growth ring and get 2 or more staves from it.
(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r55/clintanders/SDC14298.jpg)
Okay, that's amazing. How in god's name did you do that? :o If anyone can tell me how to accomplish that I'll be forever in their debt.
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It's magic. You have to be in this bow making stuff for a while before you're allowed to know. ::) ;)
Yeah, Eddie. That's the one.
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It's magic. You have to be in this bow making stuff for a while before you're allowed to know. ::) ;)
Yeah, Eddie. That's the one.
Pat, man, your killin' me! Okay, I can accept that. How 'bout this... I'll keep paying very close attention to all the suggestions, make generous contributions in trade, keep posting bows that reflect what I've learned, and when you guys feel I am ready, someone can PM me that secret knowledge. Okay? O:) O:) O:)
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I think you're thinking of Simon's cable backed holie ERC Bub. Mine was 90% sapwood. Josh
Actually Josh i was thinking of that bl walnut and had a brain fart
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It's magic. You have to be in this bow making stuff for a while before you're allowed to know. ::) ;)
Yeah, Eddie. That's the one.
Pat, man, your killin' me! Okay, I can accept that. How 'bout this... I'll keep paying very close attention to all the suggestions, make generous contributions in trade, keep posting bows that reflect what I've learned, and when you guys feel I am ready, someone can PM me that secret knowledge. Okay? O:) O:) O:)
Do you have any young children? >:D 8) ;)
Take a machete half way down the thickness of the stave and beat it from one end to the other till the belly stave pops off. :)
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It's magic. You have to be in this bow making stuff for a while before you're allowed to know. ::) ;)
Yeah, Eddie. That's the one.
Pat, man, your killin' me! Okay, I can accept that. How 'bout this... I'll keep paying very close attention to all the suggestions, make generous contributions in trade, keep posting bows that reflect what I've learned, and when you guys feel I am ready, someone can PM me that secret knowledge. Okay? O:) O:) O:)
Do you have any young children? >:D 8) ;)
Take a machete half way down the thickness of the stave and beat it from one end to the other till the belly stave pops off. :)
Okay Mullet, I've got two. You can have the boy ;D ;D ;D
Seriously though, I'm in your debt forever. :)
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Just be aware that some woods will split nicer when doing that. I've actually used a curved drawknife to get a split started in ring porous wood so that the split followed the early growth almost perfectly.
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First you start out with a 24" osage log. Then proceed from there. On curved pieces I'll use two ax heads to start a curved split along the growth ring. Some times they split perfectly. Other times they run out half way down the stave. Start out on the small end of the stave. I'll mark on the end where I want to split it to get the most staves out of a piece of wood.
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My only advice is this: if you're making a selfbow, do nothing to the sapwood. If you're sinew backing, do whatever you want to the sapwood because it won't matter at all.
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Wow, thanks everyone! 8)
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With ERC my advice would be to saw the heartwood off. ERC can be a pain just splitting staves some times. It likes to just wander off in any old direction. I'm utterly amazed that goat managed to do a belly split. I've had em blow right out the side just trying to split a log! Josh
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With ERC my advice would be to saw the heartwood off. ERC can be a pain just splitting staves some times. It likes to just wander off in any old direction. I'm utterly amazed that goat managed to do a belly split. I've had em blow right out the side just trying to split a log! Josh
Thanks Josh. A friend of mine has a bandsaw. He said he'd help me rip the sapwood. I told him I was considering backing with bamboo and he mentioned that he has a joiner. He couldn't talk long enough to explain what it does. Does anyone know?
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The jointer will give you a flat back if you plan on hard backing it. My only advice with ERC heart wood only self bow ,is wear a helmet. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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The jointer will give you a flat back if you plan on hard backing it. My only advice with ERC heart wood only self bow ,is wear a helmet. ;) :) :)
Pappy
Thanks Pappy. I've never hard backed a bow before so I think I might give it a try. I hear you about the helmet. Had one blow up in my face a few weeks ago :o
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Yep I tried it a lot years ago and still blame my short draw problem on trying to make bows out of ERC. ;) :) :) They blow so violently when they go. It is something you don't forget soon. Yipes !!!
Pappy
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Here here.+1.Just lucky enough that it did it on the tillering tree.Very violent kapow!!!!Most so of any bow I've seen break.
I've got a 5 to 6 inch thick branch here too.Only 60 to 61 inches long though if I recall.I'd make a bendy handle bow out of it myself.Possibly like Marcs' Alone bow posting.Good thread here talking about taking the crown off these kind of bows.I've been watching the Alone show but don't see it being used.One guy has a FG bow.He should get a pig with it too hopefully.
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Marc's bow isn't in this series.
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What I'd really like to do is make an r/d with a bamboo backing. What I thought about doing is having my friend cut two 1/4" laminates out of the heartwood, glue and wrap them with bicycle intertubes and bend them into a caul, wait for them to dry, then add the bamboo with glue and intertubes and bend into the caul again. Does this make sense?
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DC...Oh I see.
Yes upstate I hear ya.I've got the materials here for that too.Edge grain cut heartwood red cedar.But now bamboo might be too much for red cedar.I'd lean towards rock maple myself and into just a mild R/D design.
Innertubes will work good I'd say.Personally I'd use smooth on for glue and with smooth ons' longer working time I'd think you could glue the whole thing together at once.Red cedar lams and bamboo too and clamp it to your caul.
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Bamboo works great with ERC, but only if you do it right!! >:D Thin the boo, trap the boo, keep the length and keep the width, baby!
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DC...Oh I see.
Yes upstate I hear ya.I've got the materials here for that too.Edge grain cut heartwood red cedar.But now bamboo might be too much for red cedar.I'd lean towards rock maple myself and into just a mild R/D design.
Innertubes will work good I'd say.Personally I'd use smooth on for glue and with smooth ons' longer working time I'd think you could glue the whole thing together at once.Red cedar lams and bamboo too and clamp it to your caul.
If I go with the boo, I'd probably purchase it from 3 rivers. I've got plenty of ash and rock maple I could cut and make backing out of. Do 1/8" backing lams make sense?
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Yep.That should be enough on the backing.Would'nt need get gleaned by 3 Rivers then either.
When glueing together to avoid any glue onto to your inner tubes I wrap it first with saran wrap.Then the inner tubes.Then clamped onto your caul.Other ways too to accomplish same result but it's just the way I've been shown and am used to.It's your build.
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Yep.That should be enough on the backing.Would'nt need get gleaned by 3 Rivers then either.
When glueing together to avoid any glue onto to your inner tubes I wrap it first with saran wrap.Then the inner tubes.Then clamped onto your caul.Other ways too to accomplish same result but it's just the way I've been shown and am used to.It's your build.
I like that saran wrap idea. Think I'll probably need to make a new caul though. The bends on the one I have now are probably a bit too extreme. I made it by tracing the contour of an FG recurve I have. Anyone know of a good r/d caul design/build-along with mild curves?
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lebhuntfish was kind enough to show his model of an R/D caul build on page 2 on the build-a-long thread.
You can put a little more bend on the tips if you want with a different caul but doubt you'll need it.