Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Kegan on March 09, 2008, 07:32:06 pm
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Starting with the board bow I did for a build along, I've been leaving my bows braced for a day before moving on with more tillering. So far, i have't had a bow break, there has been little to no loss in weight, tillering to full draw is usually much easier, and even on stronger bows the first time bracing is much easier. Paul Comstock described this in Vol. 3 of TBB for neolithic bows that are violated in grain.
What does everyone else do?
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Kegan, After the bow reaches full draw and ideal draw weight I will leave a bow braced for an hour or so at first then gradually extend the amount of time it remains braced as I am shooting it in. I want to be sure it can take the strain of long time bracing while hunting or at the 3D range. I have probably left a bow braced for 6 to 8 hours but I don't think I'd leave one braced for 24 hours...at least not on purpose! ;D ::) Why stress it so much more than it would normally get. Pat
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Kegan, if it makes a stronger bow easier to brace the first time it is a bad thing not a good thing, if the bow is braced for a long time at a higher weight than you are going to finish it at and everything gets easier you have pretty much damaged your bow pretty severely allready. I keep my bow braced through the tillering process pretty much but it is usaully not all that long for each tillering session before the bow is pretty close to finished weight. Not being rude at all but I think you gave us a good case for not leaving the bow braced. Steve
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I don't leave mine braced at all. I do leave it tillered a while as I am tillering. After that I just shoot it. Justin
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Using my tree, I pull a newly tillerred bow to full draw about 1000 times over the course of 5 days. If it survives, I call it good and finish it up.
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Once my Paddle Bows are completely Tillered ....I will String them at a low Brace )about 4-5 inches).and leave them like that overnight.I have never had any problems doing this....and they never take set from it either....I just find it helps the Bow get a Memory.I normally get about 1 inch of unbraced follow....that disappears as the Bow relaxes....the only ones that will take set are my Red Oak Paddles...usually less than an inch....is this Harmfull in your thinking?? I was taught that way...so I have always done this....
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Yankee, nothing wrong with 1" or 1 1/2" follow, I think the idea is just not to do anything to increase the follow anymore than it will be anyway. Couple of years ago I accidentaly discovered how much damage happens to a bow when braced too soon. It's not catostraphic or anything but can really beat up an otherwise good performing bow. If you brace a 50# bow when it is still about 90# it can do some damge, if you leave it sit like that all night it will be a little easier. We never will get perfect bows but trying to avoid any unneccessary overstressing is a good thing. Steve
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OK....I never Brace my Bows before the finished weight and draw are reached...except to Tiller them.... I only leave them Strung overnight...once the Bow is Tillered...and shot in(at least a 100 arrows)....then I will let it sit at a low Brace for the Night...and usually after work the Next Day...I will unstring it....and call it a done deal...I have never had one fail from this....but then I would never string a 60 pound Bow when it was still at 90 pounds and not finish Tillered either!!!
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Hmm............I dont see the difference between bracing a bow for 6 hours when it will be braced huntin' fer 6-8 hours at a time. So why different in yer shop ? I agree ya do need a good tiller first before you do this. Iam talkin' about huntin' bows here not recreational bows or flight bows-need ta talk ta Badger here with these types of bows. Another thing I do when on an extended huntin' trip is I only hunt with the bow fer 2 days then I switch to another bow for the next 2 days. Let first rest then back and forth. workee good fer me at least........bob
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I do believe there is a difference between leaving a close too tillered stave braced for 6 hours as opposed to leaving a stave that is really overweight braced for long periods of time where there is the possibility of belly damage and more set. When Comstock wrote about leaving a stave braced for long periods I do believe the stave was close to full draw. I could be wrong. I thought I was wrong once but I was mistaken. :) Jawge
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Once a bow has reached target weight I don't worry about how long it is braced as far as shooting or hunting goes. I think the original post was about bracing the bow while it was still pretty heavy unless I misunderstould it. Once a bow is finished tillered even a flight bow they wont change much. I had a flight bow last year that was about 1 1/2# too heavy, I left it braced all night hoping it would drop just a tad and it didn't. Bending a bow too far too soon is the same as overdrawing it. I don't like a long string for tillering but I do like to use a long string to tell me when I have gotten it far enough to safely brace. A long string reading will be pretty close to the same as a regular braced bow reading as far as draw weight goes. Once I get it out to about 23 or 24 inches I feel it is safe to brace it a low brace height. Steve
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I agree Jawge. The good tiller I was speakin' about is at full draw and at the weight ya want. I 2 once thought I was wrong but I was mistaken. :D But then again family has been tellin' me fer years that yer WRONG period ! LOL ! ??? >:( ;D ;D.........bob
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Steve (badger ) I reread original post and yer correct. I agree bracing while still heavy and NOT fully tillered ta ya satisfaction is a bad idea. Damage ta wood will occur as you stated. I dont think Comstock meant to do this BEFORE it is tillered properly and to your satisfaction..bob
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One thing I like about Jawges bow sight and the advice he gives is that it will get a person to making good bows right off the bat. I was breaking one bow after another until I found Jawges bow sight. He also leaves you plenty of room to style it up yourself and expand into your own way of doing things. In my eyes Jawge rules!!!
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Looking around at how other people "break in" their bows has been a real eye opener for me. Gordon draws his bows 1000 times.....not counting target shooting! :o If I used that as a standard, then NONE my bows are broken in before I start shooting? ;D
As for tillering.....I used to "force" brace a rough bow to get a 2"-4" brace height and then work it down in weight while strung.....and drawing it slightly.....maybe 10"-12".....until I was down to the desired weight. Then I would continue reducing the limbs while drawing the string further back until it reached the desired draw length. I didn't worry about how high the initial draw weight was or about breaking in the bow (by leaving it braced for long periods or by drawing it a certain number of times).
Now I'm more careful (after reading TBB and other books). I try to make sure the draw weight never exceeds the desired weight while I'm tillering.....and I don't hold the bow at max draw for more than a second or two. I also don't leave the bow braced for more than a few hours. As for hunting.....I think 4 hours has been the longest time I've had a bow braced?
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I have got a stack of old junk boardbows in the garage, I am going to brace one measure the drw weight and then leave it braced for a week come back and see how much it has changed, i will report back just for the heck of it. Steve
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Thanks for the kind words, Badger. Nice of you. Jawge
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Steve out of curiousity could you leave two bows braced one in a dry area and one in a humid enviroment.
Perhaps you have two similar bows so its apples to apples.
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Guess I was kinda (extremely) vague :P.
When I go to leave them braced, they are tillered to brace, and close to weight (acutally, several pounds under). I use a long string to get them to brace, then check the weight, then leave it braced (5"-6"). I have trouble getting them too heavy- as my desired weight is usally 80# or more on longbows. After twenty four hours, they show little to no string follow. The white oak I am currently finishing up actually held some of it's initial relfex after about thirty hours. I avoid any weak spots where compaction could occur.
Sorry 'bout that ;D.
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Dana, thats a good point. I gave a bow to my brotherinlaw once in ms, he never unbraced the bow for a solid year in very humid weather, when I came back a year later the bow string had no tension on it, the string was still straight but just barely. We habe quite a bit of dew here at night so if I just left one bow sit outside it would proablybe a good test. Steve
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Guess I was kinda (extremely) vague :P.
When I go to leave them braced, they are tillered to brace, and close to weight (acutally, several pounds under). I use a long string to get them to brace, then check the weight, then leave it braced (5"-6"). I have trouble getting them too heavy- as my desired weight is usally 80# or more on longbows. After twenty four hours, they show little to no string follow. The white oak I am currently finishing up actually held some of it's initial relfex after about thirty hours. I avoid any weak spots where compaction could occur.
Sorry 'bout that ;D.
Kegan, a bow tillered to 45# at brace may be under the final weight by 8 pounds at brace but still be seriously over weight at full draw. I would never leave one strung unless you are really close or at final tiller.
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I never leave one strung any longer than it needs to be,if I am tillering it I leave it strung,
if I am hunting I leave it strung or if I am shootinf a course I leave it strung ,but any time
while doing any of the things that it don't need to be strung I unstring it,if only for a short
time.If I shoot a 40 target course that is broke up in 2 20's I unstring it after the last shot and restring when I get ready to start the 2nd half.It's wood and it will wear out no matter what,
I see no sense in rushing it. :)
Pappy
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I do as Pappy does. :) Jawge
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Kegan
If a bow breaks on you it's not because you didn't have it braced for 24 hours to start off. You should look for another reason to explain your broken bows
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Got me laughing Marc! Kegan as you have read there's a "few" roads to the promised land, and they are all good..If I'm making a selfbow for someone, I'm going slower than usual, its getting left braced longer initially, and I am shooting it perhaps 1000 times before it leaves me. It's going to have a little more mass than my own bows, and a fatter string, plus its a wood I have used many times before..
If its a new species which is mainly what I use when making personal selfbows. (There's lots of new species where I live) I push it as far as I think I can get away with, its at full draw usually within minutes of stringing, and I don't care if it blows since that will tell me what to do with the second piece, but this is quite rare..
So more than anything else I tell beginners just to slow down, since the info about what to do is here, but success in the beginning just takes patience and perseverance..lots of both..
Rich- The species book for our town is 460 pages
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Kegan
If a bow breaks on you it's not because you didn't have it braced for 24 hours to start off. You should look for another reason to explain your broken bows
I do- impatience ;D.