Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: upstatenybowyer on January 02, 2017, 10:29:10 am
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Howdy. Bout' to go over to a friends who has some BW trees he'd like to get rid of. Assuming there's some bow-worthy staves with sapwood and heartwood, any advice on how to proceed? Keep the sapwood? Leave just a little? Design ideas?
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There were some old growth Black Walnuts on the Colgate college grounds that were removed and a coworker of mine handed me a plank that was over 8'long. It was about 11" wide and 5"thick!!!
He says " you make bows right??" The problem was that the chain used to drag the log has damaged the first 3/4" on the back, so I had to chase a ring. Much to my surprise, I was able to get a nice even back and he got a 68" longbow - all heartwood with no additional wood added for the handle or tips - 100% Black Walnut - chocolate brown with the most beautiful grain patterns!!!
It came in right around 50# and was 1-3/4" wide till about 12" from the tips tapered to 1/2". Took an honest 1-1/2" of set but was a nice and easy bow to shoot.
Wyatt told me that he had killed a spike horn from the ground with it, and that sealed the deal!.
Others have simply removed the bark and proceeded as usual for a white wood stave bow, and left the lighter sap wood intact.
The smaller pieces make great handles for other bows as well. Love to see what you come up with.
P.S. - I'm in central NY
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Here's what Tim Baker says about black walnut (which reinforces what barebo said):
WALNUT: black .55. Semi-ring-porous, easy to work, elastic for its mass, similar in performance to cherry, but more tension-safe. Will try to chrysal where cherry won’t. A wonderful, overlooked bowwood. Bows can be all sapwood or all heartwood, or mixed, sapwood taking a bit more set in compression. The off-white sapwood can be worked down to 25% or so of limb thickness, creating appealing contrast with the almost black belly. Very high heartwood extractive level, so as with similar woods, it may be more resistant to water absorption. It’s reported not to warp with rising and falling humidity, possibly for this reason.
There's a fellow by the name of Jimmy Blackmon who has some interesting YouTube videos in regards to archery (some selfbow build alongs, some that talk in depth about gap shooting, etc). Here's a video about a walnut selfbow he made (it's all sapwood in the limbs with some of the heartwood in the stiff handle).
https://youtu.be/luQiJuJ9epI
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Do a search for gundoc, that trucker has made some great looking black walnut bows
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Here's what Tim Baker says about black walnut (which reinforces what barebo said):
WALNUT: black .55. Semi-ring-porous, easy to work, elastic for its mass, similar in performance to cherry, but more tension-safe. Will try to chrysal where cherry won’t. A wonderful, overlooked bowwood. Bows can be all sapwood or all heartwood, or mixed, sapwood taking a bit more set in compression. The off-white sapwood can be worked down to 25% or so of limb thickness, creating appealing contrast with the almost black belly. Very high heartwood extractive level, so as with similar woods, it may be more resistant to water absorption. It’s reported not to warp with rising and falling humidity, possibly for this reason.
There's a fellow by the name of Jimmy Blackmon who has some interesting YouTube videos in regards to archery (some selfbow build alongs, some that talk in depth about gap shooting, etc). Here's a video about a walnut selfbow he made (it's all sapwood in the limbs with some of the heartwood in the stiff handle).
https://youtu.be/luQiJuJ9epI
Jimmy posts on here and I believe that bow was on a thread on here. He doesn't seem to feel the heartwood is of much use but that may just be the stuff he's had access to.
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Cool. Thanks guys
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Here's one of josh's bl walnut bows http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,52633.msg713217.html#msg713217
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Found a pic of that longbow I made back in 2010.
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Another - It's the Best smelling wood to shave and when tillering, the grain keeps changing and it's simply beautiful wood - I'd love to get another stave and have a go at it!
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Bubby, that's a beaut. Josh has got some skills! So do you barebo. Very nice!
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Here's the thread with Jimmy's bow. http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36220.msg476455.html#msg476455
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Thanks Pat, another looker! I'm convinced BW is a wood I like to try.
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Upstateny,I'm going to try it also I cut this last May,so this coming summer it should be dry.I'm from N.Y. also and this will be my first selfbow....Burt
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x353/bsv1960/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/0B3CFEAE-C297-4BEE-964F-2D5240D87CF6.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bsv1960/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/0B3CFEAE-C297-4BEE-964F-2D5240D87CF6.jpg.html)
(http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x353/bsv1960/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/D1AE0612-11B8-4DE9-BF55-EED35691462D.jpg) (http://s1177.photobucket.com/user/bsv1960/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/D1AE0612-11B8-4DE9-BF55-EED35691462D.jpg.html)
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Keep it wide. The wood has next to zero tension issues, but has compression problems if made too narrow. Also, this is one of the woods that you can make an all heart wood, all sap wood or a heartwood-sapwood bow out of. I've never had a clean enough piece to make a heartwood sapwood bow from, but that is my dream someday. It is just a beautiful wood and a pleasure to work with. Also surprisingly light. Makes a good backing material as well. If you want to trade a stave for a stave, let me know.
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Howdy Burt. Your walnut looks way better than the stuff I got today. Mine's all sapwood and wavy. Still might try one though. We've got plenty of it around us so I'll certainly be on the lookout. Best of luck to you with your first!
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I've done a few of black walnut. Kind of a spongy feeling bow wood. Here's one all heartwood. I prefer to take the sap wood off personally.
(http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q681/joec123able/Walnut/9896A8B9-0A66-4392-94E3-A4E93D120E7C_zpsadreshy3.jpg) (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/joec123able/media/Walnut/9896A8B9-0A66-4392-94E3-A4E93D120E7C_zpsadreshy3.jpg.html)
(http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q681/joec123able/Walnut/0D6197B3-FF6E-4195-994C-FE7520AE69CE_zpswkfjn3v2.jpg) (http://s1354.photobucket.com/user/joec123able/media/Walnut/0D6197B3-FF6E-4195-994C-FE7520AE69CE_zpswkfjn3v2.jpg.html)
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It's pretty much been said already . Any combination of sapwood heartwood is fine. Keep it wide and the belly flat. Go slow with the tiller and exercise the limbs a lot while tillering. Josh
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Black Walnut has been my nemesis bow wood. I've attempted 5 times and failed each time. The sixth time I finally got one made, ...but it has since chrysaled up a good bit (after 8 months of shooting reliably) and has taken set poorly. Still shoots nice for plinking at a target in the back yard, but I'm afraid number six will also eventually be a bust! :'( :'( :'( It is really too bad because I have access to a lot of the stuff that is really quite pretty.
What has been said about keeping it W I D E and flat on the belly is really good advice. You might also try trapping the back of the limb some as well, especially if you are doing a sap wood bow.
OneBow
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Onebow, can I share a thought about this? The couple times I worked BW, I took Bakers advice about being elastic for it's mass, and overstrained it. Got multiple little compressions and some set.
Now, in light of what Joec123able said, in his post, what I THINK really happened is that the wood actually feels elastic. He said "spongy" but I remember it bending easily and snapping back easily, so I'm thinking ELASTIC, but not very STIFF.
So, because it wasn't stiff, I built them too thick, even though I thought I was wide enough, and mid to late tillering, they got beat up. Next time, I'm leaving them silly wide and trust how light the wood is to keep the tip weight under controll.
Keep in mind, though, that I think too much.....
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Gun Doc, when you say wide ....13/4 or so?? Burt
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I usually go 2" wide at the fades for a hunting weight bow. 1 3/4" is good to about 35-40 lbs. . That's with my local walnut which is slower growing and quite dense compared to walnut I've tried from out further east. I think that may be a lot of the problem that people have with walnut. It seems that the further north and west, the denser the walnut. That's based on very limited samples of course. Josh