Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: upstatenybowyer on December 12, 2016, 08:13:11 pm

Title: sinew processing questions
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 12, 2016, 08:13:11 pm
I spent the majority of this past Sunday digging through deer legs that I got from a local deer processing guy in trade for my homemade maple syrup (there'll be much more come Feb and March  ;)) Anyway, I put it in the dehydrator overnight last night and started processing this afternoon. I'm new at this, and my first question is...

has anyone else had trouble differentiating between the surrounding tissue/casing and the sinew itself?

Here's a couple pictures of what I think is the casing, but is there sinew there?

and the second question...

It seems like the casing gets stuck to the sinew and when I try to remove it, it ends up splitting the sinew into smaller threads, which I do not want.  Can this be avoided?
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: osage outlaw on December 12, 2016, 08:37:14 pm
That is some greasy sinew.  I get legs from a local processor also.   When I cut the sinew out I put them in a bucket of water and rinse them multiple times to get as much hair out as possible.  Then I take each piece and separate it into the individual bundles.  I remove any film or fatty looking tissue.  When they dry they are a solid amber color.  It takes some time but it makes it a lot easier to process and I get cleaner sinew fibers. 

Here is a picture of my sinew drying

(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/Outlawstaves/20161122_180531_zpsvzehx9hp.jpg)
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 12, 2016, 08:52:22 pm
Dang. Now that's the way to do it. I was just so happy to get the stuff out, I rinsed it and put it in the dehydrator. I think that's my problem. I've gotta clean it up way more before drying. Man, is there anything about bow making that doesn't require tons of patience?  :o

Thanks
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: PatM on December 12, 2016, 09:13:52 pm
You're also getting the superficial flexor tendons and the deep digital flexor tendon mixed up. The more cylindrical center ones will break down more predictably while the exterior section is not as uniform.

  Soak and wash them and get the initial separation done before they dry out.
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: Chief RID on December 13, 2016, 07:54:14 am
I am a 35 year novice at sinew. I processed some deer leg sinew at least 30 years ago and have never used it. After all connective tissue removed it was just very white thin threads. As far as I could tell, all the amber colored material was connective tissue.
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 13, 2016, 08:06:20 am
I hear ya Chief. I'm always amazed when someone posts pics of a sinew job with lots of long and fluffy fibers perfectly arranged into bundles of different lengths. How do they do it?!
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: BowEd on December 13, 2016, 08:32:23 am
Elk & moose leg sinew/buffalo & beef backstrap for your extra length.It's gotta be grease free.A person will get all sorts of lengths.Their all useful.Organize them to length.1.5" overlap with shorter  and all strands.Small example here.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN0403_zpsm6m7eck5.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN0403_zpsm6m7eck5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: osage outlaw on December 13, 2016, 08:47:14 am
All deer leg sinew

(http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/Outlawstaves/20150201_222357_zpstlgujhdr.jpg) (http://s666.photobucket.com/user/Outlawstaves/media/20150201_222357_zpstlgujhdr.jpg.html)
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: BowEd on December 13, 2016, 08:55:41 am
Looks like your ready OO.....lol.That's the way to organize them.Then their ready.I've built up a surplus like that too especially if my intentions are to apply quite a bit to a bow.
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: Chief RID on December 13, 2016, 10:36:39 am
Here is my 35 year old stash of deer leg sinew. I don't think it will back a bow. I will need more.
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: osage outlaw on December 13, 2016, 11:04:46 am
Looks like your ready OO.....lol.That's the way to organize them.Then their ready.I've built up a surplus like that too especially if my intentions are to apply quite a bit to a bow.

I gave/traded all of that away.  I'm working on replenishing my supply.  I want to back a bow or two this winter. 
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: High-Desert on December 13, 2016, 12:07:32 pm
How much time do you guys spend stripping out sinew? It seems like it takes me a good 8 hours to process enough for one bow. Am I reeeeaallllly slow, or is this normal?

Eric
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: osage outlaw on December 13, 2016, 12:17:24 pm
It's a slow process for leg sinew. 
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: PatM on December 13, 2016, 01:02:51 pm
I don't break it down nearly as much as most people do. I don't believe it needs to be as fine. It will still soak up glue and stick to adjacent strands just fine.
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: High-Desert on December 13, 2016, 02:00:57 pm
I've read books that mention they break the sinew to strand the size of a horse hair. Who in their right mind would do that. I think I may be going too thin at about 1 mm thick.

Eric
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 13, 2016, 07:19:55 pm
Okay. Soaked that greasy, knarley, nappy, nasty, @##$, removed all the stuff that shouldn't have been there, and now it kinda looks like Outlaws pics. I've got 5 legs worth.

I want to back this short (45") apple bow that's tillered just the way I want it minus about 5 lbs. of draw weight and 3" of draw length. I heat treated it into even more reflex than it naturally had (which was a lot). It's holding it's unbraced profile to about 24" but will inevitably loose the reflex without sinew. Think I'll have enough with 5 legs worth to do the job? Here's a pic of the bow as it is currently... 
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: Danzn Bar on December 13, 2016, 07:28:42 pm
Did you say you tillered that.... to what draw length?  I'd like to see a braced, and front profile.. before I can make any suggestions....
DBar
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 13, 2016, 07:47:43 pm
It draws to 24" right now and returns to that unbraced profile, which I don't want it to loose, thus the sinew. Here's it braced and from the front. The kid still can't take a pic of me drawing the bow otherwise I'd show you the 24". Just the boys at home tonight!
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: Danzn Bar on December 13, 2016, 08:01:00 pm
Wow that's a fine unbraced profile to be pulling a 45" lg bow to 24"....I don't think I can contribute to this thread anymore I've never been there.....Good job and good luck...
DBar
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 13, 2016, 08:10:40 pm
I wasn't expecting to get here either. I'm surprised this wood is taking it.
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: bradsmith2010 on December 13, 2016, 10:12:53 pm
well weigh the sinew,, if it is about 1000 grains,,, thats a good start,, or should work fine for that bow to hold reflex,,
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: BowEd on December 13, 2016, 11:15:18 pm
Swoop dang buddy that's some kind of wood you got there upstate....lol.Personally I'd call it good enough at 24" but that's up to you.Like your thinking farther will need sinew.Got any idea what the poundage is at 24"?
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: mikekeswick on December 14, 2016, 04:15:56 am
I would also recurve the tips on that thing! Problem with short bows is stacking, a bow which stacks hard ain't no fun to shoot, and that will stack! Short, sharp recurves will allow you to have a nice shooting bow and be able to test out your wood/sinew combo to the full.
For that bow 60 grammes of processed sinew will be enough.
Sinew thickness is all about how nice the finished bow will look. Wooden bows aren't straining the sinew much so thicker pieces are no problem as long as you soak them well enough. Obviously there comes a point where too big is too big and you won't get full glue penetration into the whole fiber.
Sinew prep gets easier the more experience you get with it. Different sinews process differently. I like mine as fine as possible but then I'm like that :)
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 14, 2016, 08:00:07 am
Bead, this wood must have some fairy dust on it or something.  ??? I kinda just assumed it would break with all that stress, so I figured "what the heck" and just kept on reflexing it. Low and behold... it doesn't want to die! It feels like there's at least 40# of draw weight in it at 24"

Mike, you're right on about the stacking. Hadn't considered the short sharp recurves but it makes a lot of sense. Now that I think of it, Simson posted a really short sinewed bow a while back that had tons of reflex and recurved tips. Thanks for the insight on applying the sinew. I'll be sure to look back at this thread before laying it on.  ;)
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: Parnell on December 14, 2016, 09:37:37 am
I'm really stunned at that little bow!  That's amazing...
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: osage outlaw on December 14, 2016, 10:18:16 am
You need to make a small bow for that little ninja turtle
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: JonW on December 14, 2016, 12:18:16 pm
I don't break it down nearly as much as most people do. I don't believe it needs to be as fine. It will still soak up glue and stick to adjacent strands just fine.

Agreed. We end up trying to eleminate excessive glue anyway.
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 14, 2016, 08:20:05 pm
You need to make a small bow for that little ninja turtle

It's in the works  ;)
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: Stick Bender on December 15, 2016, 09:37:46 am
I dont process mine all at once do a couple hours here & there but pulling into thread part is kinda relaxing to me like chasing rings I have only done white tail legs and it can be labor intensive to do all at once but I try to get them into as fine of threads as I can so they go on neat.
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 16, 2016, 08:17:06 pm
Do the threads have to be completely fluffy? I noticed if I rehydrate strands that have a little stiffness dry they become soft and seem like they'd lay on a bow smoothly. The problem I'm having is, even after much pounding and pulling apart the strands are still stiff. If I run them through my fingers too much they break into much smaller parts.  >:(
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: BowEd on December 17, 2016, 10:21:37 am
What I want my hide glue to do is completely infiltrate all the fibres of my sinew without the overloading of glue.Creating a matrix layer when dried that you can't even hardly see the sinew strands.That squeeging process dipping the pre soaked sinew into the hide glue can take practice to get it right for the right amount of glue.You'll know when you tiller it.That's why I like my sinew finer and more fluffy in the beginning.Each to his own I say.
Pat's method of wrapping and heating for a nice finish I feel is an efficient way to accomplish this if the sinew is harder and thicker,and will create that matrix looking effect too.
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: upstatenybowyer on December 17, 2016, 11:26:30 am
Is there a thread where Pat describes his wrap and heat method?
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: PatM on December 17, 2016, 12:23:21 pm
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,43246.msg580831.html#msg580831
Title: Re: sinew processing questions
Post by: bubby on December 17, 2016, 01:39:05 pm
It is in the archives if you go look there you will find some great info especially gordons bow build a long