Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: gfugal on November 16, 2016, 11:31:35 am
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Where do you guys get your bow wood? I understand that some of you probably buy it, but I would like to avoid that if possible. Other's probably get it from their own property, but I don't have that luxury. Does anyone know if it's legal to go chop down a tree or something with a permit on BLM or forest service land? I know they allow that for Christmas trees around Christmas time but what about other trees other times. I currently have three staves from a salvaged tree that was felled by lightning at my brother's apartment, but that's not going to last forever and I can't count on trees being knocked down as a reliable means of getting wood.
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Here in Utah you can get a permit to cut wood on BLM land. It costs $6 per cord, but you have to get a permit for 2 cords, so $12. They have areas that you can cut standing dead that you can cut year round, but the access is less than optimal during the winter months. There are areas that you can cut live trees as well, but here they are mostly in winter range for wildlife, and only allow it after the spring thaw. Just look up your state and blm wood cutting permit. You'll find out.
I have cut wood from peoples yards, and other private property. Always with permission. You can also call a municipality and ask what they do with wood they cut. The city I work for will give it to people if they want it, otherwise they take it to the landfill and turn it into mulch.
Tree cutting services usually have to pay to dispose of wood, unless they are selling it for firewood, and here that is rare.
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I get most of my bow wood by trading with others here on PA but sometimes buy it. I have 25ac so I sometimes cut wood too but not much lately...because I already have more than I will ever use. ::) I still trade or buy wood as needed for different projects.
You could talk to landscapers or tree services or city parks workers to see if you can get wood from them. Any of them would probably give you enough for bows if you ask politely.
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Thank you, that's what I was looking for.
Another question I had was if people have had success making bows from hardware store wood, and if so what type of wood? I heard they Kiln dry their wood which makes it less desirable, but I imagine people are still successful if they are careful or back it or something.
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Lots of people make board bows. Hickory, Red oak. Board selection is the toughest part.
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Gfugal, where do you live? I tend to cut most of my own wood now, because I'm picky. You can definitely go through the US Forest Service, BLM, or through State Forests and buy permits to cut wood, though it's an ordeal. I tend to use social media to reach out to folks in my area and just ask if I can cut a sapling or two (or three, or four) on their private land. I've managed to get all the wood I need that way.
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http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35312.msg464947.html#msg464947
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If you live near a national forest, getting a permit is the way to go. The the most time concumig for me was string a yew permit. Not hard, just time consuming. And usually a small fee, 20$ for a yew tree, most everything else is free. They have to approve the area for yew. But I email BLM about cutting juniper. He emailed me back saying "go ahead, and this email is your permit." The NF and BLM have been easy to deal with for me and have always been willing to help.
Eric
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I cut my staves from the property that we own. I trade a lot to get other types of trees that don't grow on my place.
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Check with your local highway dept. As said above, a lot of time it'll be mulch anyway. You have to go regularly. I usually find nothing, but you never know. I once found an entire osage tree that was about to go into the chipper! :o Most of it became firewood (the best you can get) but I think I made at least one bow from a limb.
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When it comes to bows made from lumber, I have had success with Red Oak backed with Hickory. These bows are simple American Flat Bows, 67" in length. Wood quality with good grain flow is key as well as slow careful tillering. Wide limbs 1.75" to 2.0" is recommended.
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Thanks for all the input guys I appreciate it. Eric, I live in Orem Utah. Sounds like I have plenty of options, with BLM, national forest, and landscapping/city to contact I should be able to find some. However, even if I find some this month they are going to take a long time to season. I'm probably going to have to work with Board bows. I'll have to try some of the woods you've mentioned. Maybe one of each.
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It's always an option to cut your staves and then try to trade one for a more seasoned stave. I know when I trade, I don't mind getting green wood, and sending off seasoned wood. I think for the most part, there's plenty of guys here that would be will to trade with you if you really want to start with staves.
Eric
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Thanks for all the input guys I appreciate it. Eric, I live in Orem Utah. Sounds like I have plenty of options, with BLM, national forest, and landscapping/city to contact I should be able to find some. However, even if I find some this month they are going to take a long time to season. I'm probably going to have to work with Board bows. I'll have to try some of the woods you've mentioned. Maybe one of each.
Without getting into a drying versus seasoning debate you can still make a very useful bow from quick dried wood, especially at this time of year.
Even guys who swear by seasoned timber likely only give it credit for a few extra percentage points in performance or longevity.
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have you considered smaller diameter 2.5"-3" saplings? often these can be found in places one would not usually look for mature timber. Overgrown ditches, fencelines, right-of-ways, utility easements. Behind the industrial park or the landfill etc, etc. Places folks would be glad to see weeded.
PatM has a point about quick drying. You can be shooting in less than a month from the stump, if you are willing to monitor it some and reduce to somewhat above floor tiller dimensions before drying.
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It may not be an instant solution, but the best way is to tell everybody you meet who handles wood what you need, then be patient.
Meanwhile, collect saplings, they are widespread and much less ristrictively protected. Many people will allow you to cut some of them around their house, and many species can be cut in the wild without anyone thinking much about it. Also, cutting a tree, cleaning up the mess and getting rid of the spare parts is much work, while a spling is cut and lopped off in a matter minutes. And they are great for making bows.
Then gift some of the sapling bows to the most promising sources of serious wood. That way, they'll remember you, see you want to build serious bows and will eventually bring over some nice logs for you.
This will take two or three years, but it will net you plenty of nice bow wood.
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It may not be an instant solution, but the best way is to tell everybody you meet who handles wood what you need, then be patient.
Meanwhile, collect saplings, they are widespread and much less ristrictively protected. Many people will allow you to cut some of them around their house, and many species can be cut in the wild without anyone thinking much about it. Also, cutting a tree, cleaning up the mess and getting rid of the spare parts is much work, while a spling is cut and lopped off in a matter minutes. And they are great for making bows.
Then gift some of the sapling bows to the most promising sources of serious wood. That way, they'll remember you, see you want to build serious bows and will eventually bring over some nice logs for you.
This will take two or three years, but it will net you plenty of nice bow wood.
+1
For every dozen leads you get, maybe only one or two will bear fruit, but as you build up contacts, you'll eventuall find the wood comes to you! When in doubt gather It... you can always sort out the second rate stuff later.
Del
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To get started I speed dried my first couple of bows. I was very pleased with the outcome. My 1st was a ash that I harvested 12-7-15 got it shooting 2-2-16 learned a enormous amount from it shoot it many thousands of times. My second was a Hop Hornbeam I harvested 2-27-16 I got it shooting somewhere around 7-15-16. I successfully harvested my first deer a 4 point buck 10-13-16 I still shoot this bow daily and it is showing no sign of wearing out. In the mean time I gathered many more staves and have them cureing.
Also agree with Jodocus and Del. When I got my bows done I showed them to people and there where many who said I could harvest trees from their property.
Also I don't know where you live but some good bow woods are messy trees that home owners want removed. Or even apple tree or plum trees that you my even be able to get a suitable branch from.
Important to keep your eyes open for opportunities and when they arise act quickly on them. With a little luck you'll be drowning in bow staves in no time.
Bjrogg
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All good advice so far. IMO the best way is to do all of the above, and just keep it in the back of your mind. I've gotten mulberry from a park once (was already cut and stacked by a dumpster), driving down the road after the highway dept trimmed and found chokecherry and buckthorn, asking friends, colleagues, neighbors, landowners etc.
Remember even if you cut today, you won't be shooting for a while, so if you've got a few bucks I suggest finding a decent lumber yard.
Yeah you can go to the big box stores, but there wood is a lot more expensive, lower quality, and at least in my area seems to be dry as a bone. A decent lumber yard will have a much better variety, in a variety of dimensions, and better quality, for less money.
The blue store has red oak at near $8/Bdft, that's too much IMO.
In contrast, I bought some perfectly straight 8/4 ash from an indoor lumber yard near me for like $5/bdft. And that was s2s not rough cut.
Also, I know in this area at least, some of the tree services also saw, air dry, and sell some common domestics like oak, maple, pine and tend to also be very reasonably priced.
If you can resaw the lumber, you can make a number of bows out of a 6" wide 6' long piece of 8/4 ash and I think that would run like $30 around here.
What I did years ago is just buy a couple 10' Ipe 2x4s and maybe 10bdft of hickory .... probably spent a bit over $100 but I've built so many bows from that stash I've lost count.
My average tri-lam is built using a total of ~1bdft of material plus the handl/riser material. And that includes the waste from the table saw kerf. So I doubt they run more than maybe $10 in materials unless I get fancy.
Just one more example, 6" wide 6' long 8/4 hickory would yield 15-16 1/4" thick backing strips and could probably be bought for $25-30.
The nice thing about board bows is you can finish one in a pretty short time with only the most basic tools. Again, if you can resaw a backinstrip and a belly lam and add a powerlam in between, you can really minimize the amount of wood you need to remove from the belly and it can go pretty fast.
Sorry for the essay.
Post script edit: MacBeath Hardwoods in SLC looks like a reasonable place to start.
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I put a couple ads on Craigslist offering to clear lots or cut firewood for people with the understanding that I get to keep any wood I like for bowyering or woodworking. Hooked up with a guy who owns a habitat restoration business, and now I can cut wood pretty much anytime I like.
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gfugal, PM sent. We're neighbors and I have too much wood. None of it is premium stuff, but lots that is usable.
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gfugal, PM sent. We're neighbors and I have too much wood. None of it is premium stuff, but lots that is usable.
I'm close as well. Let me know if I can help.
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Gfugal, I just saw you live in utah county. Where are you? I am in pleasant Grove