Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: StumblyRhino on October 15, 2016, 06:04:48 pm

Title: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: StumblyRhino on October 15, 2016, 06:04:48 pm
I'm making the simple yew longbow in BB I, using buckthorn.  I've got a knot right on the edge of my bow, even after having moved my layout around as much as I could on the stave.

It's about 5 inches down from the end of the fade.  The void goes about halfway through and across the belly, diagonally.  Do I include the whole thing and have a big goiter hanging off one side, or cut it mostly out and leave some bulk on the belly and opposite edge to compensate?  I'm not opposed to a little character, this is just my first time dealing with this situation.

Or maybe I should've moved the layout the other way to better include it?  Please don't tell me that now. :)  Thanks for any guidance, in advance.  On Wisconsin!  Beat OSU!

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c77/Xrhino/Woodworking/IMG_1055_zpskxbk2usp.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Xrhino/media/Woodworking/IMG_1055_zpskxbk2usp.jpg.html)

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c77/Xrhino/Woodworking/IMG_1053_zpsl7bklfsp.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Xrhino/media/Woodworking/IMG_1053_zpsl7bklfsp.jpg.html)

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c77/Xrhino/Woodworking/IMG_1054_zpsaz9jj70h.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Xrhino/media/Woodworking/IMG_1054_zpsaz9jj70h.jpg.html)
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: FilipT on October 15, 2016, 06:15:04 pm
That is ugliest knot ever. I would personally try to cut through it if I had another stave at disposal but this is huge risk, it might brake at that spot.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: Bryce on October 15, 2016, 06:32:20 pm
Honestly that doesn't look like a big deal. Just follow the grain around the knot, fill it if need be. And just pay attention to that area during tillering. Buckthorn can handle a lot of flaws.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: DuBois on October 15, 2016, 07:10:35 pm
I would try to put in smack in the middle of the bow limb and leave it wide enough to compensate-OOPSA just read the whole post, sorry!

I agree with Bryce  ;D
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: Mo_coon-catcher on October 15, 2016, 08:18:48 pm
I vote, run with it.  Leave it a bit longer than usual to reduce a bit of stress on the knot. And remember, super glue is your friend. The thinner the better so it can soak in well. It might not do much or be necessary, but it'll add a bit of assurance, and it can't hurt much either.

Kyle
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: Badly Bent on October 15, 2016, 08:19:35 pm
Do as Bryce said, I've gotten away with knots that bad or worse on several buckthorn bows. Your more likely to break buckthorn on either end of the knot in a clean area of the limb if you get a spot too thin there. Like Bryce said pay attention to your tiller, don't expect the limb to bend at the knot but be careful not to get any one area at either side of the knot bending to much.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: osage outlaw on October 15, 2016, 09:51:28 pm
That is ugliest knot ever. I would personally try to cut through it if I had another stave at disposal but this is huge risk, it might brake at that spot.


Cut through the knot?   ???
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: StumblyRhino on October 15, 2016, 11:02:28 pm
Thanks, guys. I'll give 'er a shot tomorrow, and post what I come up with.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: FilipT on October 16, 2016, 06:30:55 am
That is ugliest knot ever. I would personally try to cut through it if I had another stave at disposal but this is huge risk, it might brake at that spot.

Cut through the knot?   ???

In this case I would have cut through it or try to remove as much of it as I can while going with grain, just because its really ugly to me. Generally I love knots, but this one is no no for me. I would have rather use different stave.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 16, 2016, 09:09:48 am
Im with Greg. I have a Buckthorn bow that has a 3/8" round stick still protruding from the knot. Knots are knots. Some let you know soon they wont stand for it and others last for 1000's of shots.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: BowEd on October 16, 2016, 02:21:47 pm
Cool Pearly.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: Badly Bent on October 16, 2016, 07:24:14 pm
Here's a couple more examples of what can be pulled off with knotty buckthorn Rhino. Knots on buckthorn are rarely if ever the breaking point on buckthorn bows in my experience. Even small pin knots that shoot out on the edge of a limb have never caused any issue for me with this wood. If a knot is suspect I do add some super glue on the knot at the bows back as insurance though.
Keep us posted on how yours goes.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: BowEd on October 17, 2016, 12:54:49 pm
Very cool too Badly Bent.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: StumblyRhino on October 17, 2016, 04:05:29 pm
Great pics. Thanks for the inspiration!
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow) More Questions
Post by: StumblyRhino on October 28, 2016, 11:26:24 am
Alright, finally making some progress on this one.  I followed the consensus and left that big ugly knot on the edge, though I'm not sure if I should take a little more off around it.  It's also loose in there.  Trying to decide if I should drill it out or soak it with CA glue.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c77/Xrhino/Woodworking/IMG_1142_zpsfxfumwxh.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Xrhino/media/Woodworking/IMG_1142_zpsfxfumwxh.jpg.html)

And I cobbled together a PVC steam box from my junk... treasure piles last night.  The bow spent an hour in there, and got clamped pretty straight overnight.  I went a little past to account for it sneaking back, but I should've gone a touch more.  I'll hit it again.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c77/Xrhino/Woodworking/IMG_1130_zps7pq5z9np.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Xrhino/media/Woodworking/IMG_1130_zps7pq5z9np.jpg.html)

My question now is, how long do I let it dry before I start tillering after being in the steam? I don't own a moisture meter.  I brought it in the house where things are a little drier at the moment.  I'm asking more questions than I am contributing useful content, at this point, but I do appreciate the help!
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on October 28, 2016, 11:28:00 am
If its loose, get it out. Be sure you are on one ring before you bend it any way.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: DC on October 28, 2016, 02:01:10 pm
Once in a while (when I remember) I weigh a bow before and after steaming. They usually gain about 4-5 grams more after steaming. This is gone after sitting overnight in a dry spot. But 2 days wouldn't hurt :D and teaches patience.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: StumblyRhino on October 29, 2016, 09:17:46 pm
If its loose, get it out. Be sure you are on one ring before you bend it any way.

Welp... my first time chasing a ring went about as well as the first time trying a new skill unsually does.  Yikes.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: DuBois on October 31, 2016, 08:45:48 am
Did you leave extra ring around the knot? Hard to tell if it is or if it is violated down to next lower ring. I wouldn't take any more off the side if that's what you mean by removing more. Best wishes.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: StumblyRhino on October 31, 2016, 11:28:09 am
Did you leave extra ring around the knot? Hard to tell if it is or if it is violated down to next lower ring. I wouldn't take any more off the side if that's what you mean by removing more. Best wishes.

I did leave an extra ring or two around that not and some of the bigger pin knots near the edges. Then I gouged through them in other spots. Then I took another layer off down to that ring. Then I found a spot where I was too high, and took too many off there.... and so on and so forth until I was basically out of sapwood.  It was your standard, full-on novice massacre.  ;)

I'll back it or break it or both.  I'm just chalking this one up to learning new techniques.  Since its already way under poundage, I'm sure, I'll probably try my hand at tip overlays and maybe even reflexing the tips, just to get all the retarderation out of my system before I move on to a nicer stave.  Good learning experiece.  I'll put up pics of the whole debacle when I'm finished torturing it to death.

Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: BowEd on October 31, 2016, 11:41:27 am
Down the line in time from bow making and more bows under your belt you'll probably jump at the chance at another like this one.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: soy on November 01, 2016, 04:58:59 pm
Learn something on every bow you make or break ;)
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: StumblyRhino on November 02, 2016, 11:31:25 am
Thanks, guys.  I'm learning a ton.

Small progress report... at least the tip overlays went fairly well.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c77/Xrhino/IMG_20161101_110308_zpsmy1uv1xn.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Xrhino/media/IMG_20161101_110308_zpsmy1uv1xn.jpg.html)
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: penderbender on November 02, 2016, 01:08:05 pm
Overlays look nice. Cheers- Brendan
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: bubby on November 02, 2016, 02:53:01 pm
Overlays look nice, i think the string angle is a little low
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: StumblyRhino on November 02, 2016, 03:30:19 pm
Overlays look nice, i think the string angle is a little low

Meaning, in this view, nock grooves should be tilted a little more  clockwise or counterclockwise?  I can't picture it.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: freke on November 02, 2016, 04:47:22 pm
Thanks, guys.  I'm learning a ton.

Small progress report... at least the tip overlays went fairly well.

(http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c77/Xrhino/IMG_20161101_110308_zpsmy1uv1xn.jpg) (http://s25.photobucket.com/user/Xrhino/media/IMG_20161101_110308_zpsmy1uv1xn.jpg.html)

regarding the overlay - Is it leather the dark layer?
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: StumblyRhino on November 02, 2016, 05:48:53 pm
No, it's black walnut.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: GB on November 03, 2016, 12:20:12 pm
I'm guessing he meant to file them more at an angle.  Like 45 degrees.  O/w nice overlays.
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: StumblyRhino on December 15, 2016, 11:42:48 pm
Yeah... I whittled that poor thing down to a dowel rod before I was done torturing it, and it still wasn't right.  Live and learn...
Title: Re: To be or KNOT to be (Buckthorn Longbow)
Post by: cantshoot on December 16, 2016, 08:03:12 am
Nice work mate and Good luck 😊