Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: FilipT on October 01, 2016, 06:37:57 pm
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This is just to show off what I am working on currently. Bow was brought today to very rough dimensions and left to dry in the attic. After a month or so it will be put in my room on radiator.
It is from European Hornbeam and I must say that is the most difficult and unpleasant wood I have ever worked with, also first time I have been using it.
It has such a difficult grain, many hidden weird looking knots inside the wood, some black super hard spots and so on. Also to remove the bark was pain in the butt because of uneven wood underneath the bark. Pretty sure my draw knife did some violations but nothing major, just some tiny cuts which were impossible to avoid even though I was super gentle and slow.
Bow is supposed to be heavy in draw weight and to have recurved lever tips. Any advice on what method, steam or dry heat for those who worked with that wood???
It is 70" nock to nock.
Here are some pictures:
Front profile
(https://s21.postimg.org/jx30qkhxj/IMG_20161001_175103.jpg)
Belly side
(https://s21.postimg.org/ee0h9ckw7/IMG_20161001_175158.jpg)
Lever closeup
(https://s21.postimg.org/ezpg5gfyf/IMG_20161001_175126.jpg)
Handle and fades
(https://s21.postimg.org/mgynko5hj/IMG_20161001_175134.jpg)
Limb
(https://s21.postimg.org/4s6wt1tqf/IMG_20161001_175142.jpg)
Ready for drying
(https://s21.postimg.org/ibnqyr7pj/IMG_20161001_181750.jpg)
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Well, now! This could get very interesting!
I'm listening....
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Look'n good so far........Can't wait to see it bending. I'm going to keep an eye on this one...
DBar
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This thread will not get any further activity till November. Its green and put to dry. I hoped I could ask some questions here regarding these kind of bows.
I left limb thickness constant and 22 mm thick, not sure if that is too thick. If I had go thinner, my side profile would automatically reduce itself as this hornbeam sapling had radius just enough for me to trace the design onto it.
Btw, have you JW or DBar ever built this "mollegabet" style bows?
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I have always held back from this design, something about the lever scares me.
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I have built quite a few of these and molly recurves it's a good design for a bow
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Should I use steam or dry heat for levers?
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Btw, have you JW or DBar ever built this "mollegabet" style bows?
Yeah....I've built a few.....check out my past posts....here's a couple...
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And another......
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Should I use steam or dry heat for levers?
I used dry heat................but I was using osage not hornbeam....I don't have a lot of experience with hornbeam. but as long as it is wood it will give a little to heat...
DBar
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Bubby has built a few sweet looking mollies tooo. Check out his past post also...
DBar
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Dry heat will work with Hornbeam. And it smells good.
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Steam will work too. It depends on how severe you want you curves. Steam for tighter / dry heat for shallower curves.
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@DBar
They are amazing! Especially the first, even though I like the recurves of the second just a bit more. How much thicker your levers are then the limb thickness? I am interested at what thickness levers stop bending.
@mullet
Keep in mind that is European Hornbeam, not hophornbeam which isn't at all connected to it. Just a note if you thought maybe that is HHB. If not, just disregard this.
@Mike
Probably will use steam, even have more experience with it, also I want more pronounced curves like the second bow DBar posted.
@All
Does these kind of bows have constant limb thickness or some taper. Can't seem to figure it out when looking at photos. Doesn't really matter though, on tiller it will need just more work.
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@mullet
Keep in mind that is European Hornbeam, not hophornbeam which isn't at all connected to it. Just a note if you thought maybe that is HHB. If not, just disregard this.
Your Hornbeam is basically the same tree as our Blue Beech(American Hornbeam).
HHB and Hornbeam actually are related.
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Blue beech? First time I heard about it, just looked on wikipedia, it has similar uneven bark. How are HHB and HB related when they are separate genera?
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Blue beech? First time I heard about it, just looked on wikipedia, it has similar uneven bark. How are HHB and HB related when they are separate genera?
Same family.
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@DBar
They are amazing! Especially the first, even though I like the recurves of the second just a bit more. How much thicker your levers are then the limb thickness? I am interested at what thickness levers stop bending.
Limb thickness has to do with the wood type eg. osage can be thinner than hackberry.
It also has to do with limb width, the wider the limb/lever the thinner it can be and the narrower the limb/lever the thicker the limb/lever will be.
therefore, pending the width of the bending limb and static lever it could be different. Sorry for not being able to answer your question specifically.
Maybe someone else can explain it better....
DBar
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Stalker....Making levers narrower no matter what the type of wood used is to make it as light as possible but still stay stiff to get the best out of them.Less dense woods will have to be thicker than more dense.That''s something you will have to finesse while tillering the type of wood your making a bow out of most times towards the end of tillering is where I do that.Horn beam will be stiff out there at 3/4"" wide and 5/8" thick.Your tips 10" to the tip don't get much stress out there.Slowly reduce width even more then.It can take a little practice but if it's your first lever bow I'd leave enough out there to start with.
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Here's some pics of what I mean.These are only 10" levers on 63" and 64" bows.I'd say a close 60/40 percentage working limb to lever ratio lever bows.On the left is osage.On the right is elm.A 11/32" arrow shaft between them as a reference.You'll notice the elm that's less dense is same width but a little thicker than the osage.In order for a lever bow to do it's job correctly they've got to be lighter weight on the tips.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1369_zpsxjifydsr.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1369_zpsxjifydsr.jpg.html)
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN1370_zpswgpzjd4b.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN1370_zpswgpzjd4b.jpg.html)
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Aha, I get it. As I said before this is all rough and I have enough wood to remove when the bow is dry. I was inspired by Thimo's elm bow:
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/19175/ShapeShifting-Elm-From-green-to-mean-FullDRAW?page=1#.V_NGPPSBolQ
Looks little different then most mollegabet I see and I like that design more.
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I see.That is a very nice designed heavy bow.Inspiration is the driving force for the best work.I would'nt enjoy shooting it though.A bit too heavy for me and my purposes for a bow.
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How should I make nocks on this type of bow? I want regular nocks, cut at 45 degrees angle but as levers will be recurved I don't know if that will be good for the bow.
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Stalker as far as thickness taper i have been building a pyramid/molly recurve quite a bit and the thickness starts out even then i just tiller to get the right bend. Photobucket is down for maint right now or I'd post some pics
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postimage works good
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I use this style of nocks for every design.
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From the front
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How deep and wide this groove is? Have you ever encountered slipping?
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Beautiful!
Looks kinda like nocks on the magyar bows
Very nice shape
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Sweet :)
Del
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I've gone as narrow as 3/16"and a bit wider for hunting bows.make sure to use 1/4 sawn material.the depth is that of a small chain saw file,also leave enough wood as to not file through the overlay.here's another, ebony on elm.never slipped once.
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Here are some pictures of the bow, it is almost ready for tillering. I put it in the house because it needs to dry completely.
Overall profile
(https://s21.postimg.org/6mnpoti2v/IMG.jpg)
Lever
(https://s21.postimg.org/4w4onc0jr/IMG_20161103_142521.jpg)
Handle and fades
(https://s21.postimg.org/bnv3q6pjb/IMG_20161103_142535.jpg)
One limb
(https://s21.postimg.org/3jrkz6shz/IMG_20161103_142553.jpg)
Belly
(https://s21.postimg.org/lb37dn7wn/IMG_20161103_142604.jpg)
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Can I make your type of nock in my levers without gluing on some overlays?
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It isn't a good idea to cut through the back at the nocks
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So some 1/4" tip overlays are enough like bushboy said?
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Yup as long as you don't cut all the way through them
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You can also do an insert and then cut into the back safely.
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How do you mean insert?
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Like the sliver of horn or bone in a composite bow. A slot or a v in the tip with a tougher material glued into the slot.
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I use a belt and disc grinder to shape my tips.it's quick. And easy.if I have time after work I will put up some step by step photo's
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I've build some bows out of europoean hornbeam. It's a very dense wood. Most of my tries broke on the back cause of the very dense belly. You need a very thin limb when they get that wide. I prefer nowadays a narrow limb design with a shallow-d-section.
Good luck
Greetz
Cord
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This bow has thickness of 20 mm, if I get them thin, it will lose wideness because of relatively high crown. I'll see what it will do on tillering, will not speculate further before that.
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European hornbeam is told to be very strong in compression, and moderate in tension. Crowned back in tension-weak wood (relative to belly) is pretty risky if you ask me.
I'd back it, but maybe that's just me.
have a look here too: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/63969/European-hornbeam-physical-qualities
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Crown is not so pointing out despite what I said, I meant to say that it almost didn't allow me to make bow at width I want as sapling was relatively narrow. If I make limbs thinner now, before any work on tiller, it would make bow narrow.
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Will blocks made from black locust heartwood function as a good tip overlay?
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you could use some coconut piece to make tips overlay
with such white wood it will make a strong contrast
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Will blocks made from black locust heartwood function as a good tip overlay?
YES
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you could use some coconut piece to make tips overlay
with such white wood it will make a strong contrast
Yeah, when I move to some tropical island ;)
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it was not a joke
it's easy to find coconuts at food stores. just saw the nut, flatten with a rasp and use as overlay.
they are of a nice dark brown
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Haven't seen any coconut here. Never mind my black locust overlays are finished.