Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Cloudfeather on October 01, 2016, 05:39:12 pm
-
I'm taking my first stab at making a bow from pacific yew. I got an incredible stave from Carson and am planning to make a flat bow from it.
The stave is approx 3" wide, 2 1/2" thick and 72" long. I'm going for a yew flat bow, 55-60# @ 28" I have a general idea of the dimensions that I want to go with but would like a little input from some that are more seasoned with yew. My plan is 64" tip to tip, a 4" static handle with 2" fades, slight recurves in the tips(possibly static?), 1 3/4" wide to mid limb, then tapering to 1/2" at the tip.
Here's where my questions come: What would be a good thickness and taper to start with, and how thick do I want the sapwood? The sapwood on this is approx 3/8" thick and I believe I heard that you want around 3/16-1/4". The rings aren't super thin, so I think I could chase one with my scraper. Here are some pics, and I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say. Thanks in advance.
-
Looks like a nice stave. No need to reduce your sapwood, I only ever do if I'm going to run out of heartwood. No problem with your measurements. I never take thickness measurements when I'm roughing out a yew bow, just floor tiller till it start to bend.
-
I agree with goat, leave the sapwood. Even so you don't need to chase rings with yew.
I would go more narrow like 1 1/2" wide.
-
How does yew split? At a bit over 3 inches, 1 1/2 would leave me enough for another, lighter bow.
-
i sure wish i had a stave like that. looks perfect.
-
I agree with goat, leave the sapwood. Even so you don't need to chase rings with yew.
I would go more narrow like 1 1/2" wide.
do you mean all you have to do is tear the bark off? i thought that you were suppose to chase a ring no matter what kind of wood it was (unless you back it with somthing strong)
-
How does yew split? At a bit over 3 inches, 1 1/2 would leave me enough for another, lighter bow.
I wouldn't try to split that. That's got a nice bow in it. Just go for the one. Cheers- Brendan
-
Don't split it, if you think you can get 2 staves use a band saw.
Ya just carefully remove the bark and cambium and use what's under the bark for your back
-
I agree with goat, leave the sapwood. Even so you don't need to chase rings with yew.
I would go more narrow like 1 1/2" wide.
do you mean all you have to do is tear the bark off? i thought that you were suppose to chase a ring no matter what kind of wood it was (unless you back it with somthing strong)
You chase rings on a certain species, like non white woods such as mulberry, osage, black locust. White woods just need to have bark removed and wood underneath the bark is the back of the bow.
Yew is also non white wood but its a exception to the ring chasing rule.
-
I agree with goat, leave the sapwood. Even so you don't need to chase rings with yew.
I would go more narrow like 1 1/2" wide.
do you mean all you have to do is tear the bark off? i thought that you were suppose to chase a ring no matter what kind of wood it was (unless you back it with somthing strong)
There is no "supposed"...
Yoda ;)
But seriously... the whole chase a ring thing is a good generalisation and certainly applies to Osage.
For Yew it is much less important, but you still have to be sensible. many ELBs and warbows have thickish sapwood which is fine, but needs thinning near the tips to avoid having no heart wood (I like at least 50/50 heart/sapwood).
On an old ELB of mine there was a big dip in the sapwood where it suddenly went very thick... the only choice was to reduce it... I went down about 8 rings :o in a gentle reduction. The bow is now over 40 years old (70# at 28")and still shoots about 230 yards (see pic)
Del
-
That's a challenging stave with the twist and whoopdy dos. For a flat bow, I'd go narrower, 1 1/2" in the end. But first I'd remove the bark and reduce the sapwood to 3/16 - 1/4", cut it out 2" wide end to end, bring limb thickness to 3/4-5/8" from dips to tips, and then straighten and flatten them with heat. Once I thought I had it as good as I could get it, then I'd lay out the bow and cut it to front profile. More heat corrections could be done later if needed.
-
That twist will be an absolute bear to get out of yew. Keep the limbs straight rather than recurved and you might have a chance at keeping the string on. You are nearing an 80 degree twist.
-
I'm not going to get greedy and try to get two staves from it, I've decided. Maybe a belly split once I get it down to a couple inches thick, but I won't count on it.
PearlDrums - The picture is kind of deceiving. The one half is basically flat so the twist will be mostly in one limb. I've got a steam setup and a heat gun. I'm going to try steaming it straight and then setting it with dry heat and see how that works. Thanks for the input.
-
I've had really good luck steaming twist out of Yew. I reduce the limb to equal dimensions at the fades and the tips. If it's 1 1/2" x 3/4" out of the fades, make it the same at the tips. If you make the limbs tapered, when you try to take the twist out it will untwist more where it's thinner. Once the twist is out and you're happy then taper the limbs. I steam the whole limb for 45 min. If you don't give it lots of time the heat doesn't go all the way through and when you start to remove wood the twist will come back some. Most of my yew staves are twisted to some degree and I steam and untwist them all.
-
The twist will likely be difficult for you to get the first go around. Not because yew is so hard to manipulate with heat, it is just different than osage, and takes experience to get a feel for it. Of course, reduce it to bow dimensions before attempting to steam it straight. For staves like that with fairly even twist, I like to steam the full length of it, take it over to the full length caul, and start clamping at one end and moving along using the heat gun as you go to get it nice and hot and you are moving along clamping and to lightly temper what is already clamped down. I keep the cheap cedar shims from the hardware store handy. These are great for supporting on either side of bumps, knots whatever, and when dealing with twist in yew, I like to go a little beyond where I want it to allow for springback. Use the cedar shims on one side of the limb along its whole length to accomplish this.
-
Hey I'd be interested in peoples' methods of steaming a whole bow.
If too much twist is'nt there an option of making billets resplicing in the handle to take a high majority of the twist out?I guess if the twist is over a long stretch that might not get it either though.
-
I heard of method using a plastic pipe with one end connected to steamer and on other end is cap with a hole. Hole is just enough big to allow excess of steam to freely flow outside.
You put whole bow into the pipe and turn on the steamer, that's it.
Main problem is of course, you have to have steamer which I am sure not lot of people have.
Possible alternative is pot of boiling water which instead of being completely covered on top, has special cover with hole on which flexible tube is mounted. Other end of that tube is connected to the pipe mentioned at beginning. Thus you got a relatively cheap steamer.
-
To be fair, the yew bows I built had about that much twist and I pretty much finished the rough-out then took the twist out with dry heat - don't know what Pacific yew is like but the yew I worked with responds really well to heat
-
I heard of method using a plastic pipe with one end connected to steamer and on other end is cap with a hole. Hole is just enough big to allow excess of steam to freely flow outside.
You put whole bow into the pipe and turn on the steamer, that's it.
Main problem is of course, you have to have steamer which I am sure not lot of people have.
Possible alternative is pot of boiling water which instead of being completely covered on top, has special cover with hole on which flexible tube is mounted. Other end of that tube is connected to the pipe mentioned at beginning. Thus you got a relatively cheap steamer.
If you are using PVC you have to support the pipe. It will sag once it heats up if you don't. Just a 1x4 under it is enough. You can make a perfectly good steamer out of a big pot. Put the lid aside and use a piece of plywood with a hose fitting of some sort through it. Put a rock on it to hold it closed. There is really no pressure involved in steaming. If there is you are slowing down the steam and all the heat isn't getting to the wood. My steamer has a 3/4" ID so a piece of lawn hose will probably work. I think rubber would be better than plastic as, like the PVC, the plastic will probably soften with the heat. I use plastic bags to steam bows. Bread bags for spot steaming, plastic tubes for longer pieces(full limbs or bows). You can clamp stuff up while it's still steaming, no cooling off, no rushing. Once it's all clamped just tear off all of the bag you can and let it cool.
http://www.core77.com/posts/35838/A-Better-Way-to-Steam-Wood-for-Bending-Use-a-Plastic-Bag
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=52364.0
-
I've tried the plastic bag thing for steaming - works really well. I run the steam-pipe along the bow as an additional heat source and arrange things so the steam flows back toward the steamer. If you haven't got a sheet of plastic long enough for the whole bow you can overlap a few bags and loosely tie off the joints with string and the pipe maintains a gap for the steam to flow back through the tube of bags.
Word of warning - everything gets really, really hot.
-
I have had good luck with dry heat on Yew, just have to be careful when clamping, soft shims as Carson said and don't pull the clamps down to tight, I go a little over also and if it is very bad , don't try and get all of it at once, it crushes very easy. :)
Pappy
-
Thanks for sharing that steaming method and all of the pitfalls that may occur along the way.I have plenty of 6mm visqueen from construction here and a turkey fryer too with a suitable container.Just gotta make sure I've got enough C clamps now.
I hear what Pappy's saying there too.A little at a time with dry heat can probably get it too.If Carson says it's possible too it can be done....lol.
-
Getting this thing roughed out and there is this one spot along the edge where the sapwood is a bit thicker. Should I just proceed as normal or address the thickness?
The twist will be addressed as soon as I get her floor tillered. Lol
-
where is that on your limb? 1/2" sapwood is pushing it for me, if you reduce it does it also help flatten the limb there a bit?
-
I ended up reducing the whole back to 1/4" sapwood. She's going to get rawhide and snake skin. Wanted a self bow originally, but there's always next time. :)
-
Could still be a selfbow
-
Bryce, the area where the sapwood flares out, the rings are much wider. There are some pretty bad violations. They both make me nervous and aren't very aesthetic.
-
It's not pretty, but try and tell me it doesn't work. I cannot straighten a bow on a caul if my life depended on it. But some weights and c clamps is super easy for me. Lol
-
Bryce, the area where the sapwood flares out, the rings are much wider. There are some pretty bad violations. They both make me nervous and aren't very aesthetic.
Could still be a selfbow. ;)
-
1/4 sapwood is plenty for a yew self-bow
-
Got the profile shaped, floor tillered, and rawhide backed. I might slim down the profile a hair as I tiller it, but she's coming along nicely. I'm kind of treating it with kid gloves, so it's slow going. Lol
-
Looking good Cloudfeather
-
Looking good. What length between the nocks are you at now?
Looks like you nailed removal of twist, but hard to tell from pics. How did it turn out? How much cursing? :)
-
Looking good. What length between the nocks are you at now?
Looks like you nailed removal of twist, but hard to tell from pics. How did it turn out? How much cursing? :)
I'll update some more pics later on. Still has just a tiny bit of waviness, but almost dead flat overall. She's 64" tip to tip and a little over 62" nock to nock. Temporary nocks right now. I'm not sure if I'm going to do sturgeon then tip overlays or use the method I do with snake skin. Still contemplating.
And most of the cursing was due to be fumbling around with C clamps. Nothing new there. Lol
-
Nice job dealing w/ that twist. You're certainly a more patient man than I.
-
Looks like it's coming along nicely.