Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Dictionary on August 10, 2016, 12:56:54 pm
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Did a search for this and didn't come up with much. I'm building a 71" full compass longbow for hunting purposes and I'm wondering if this might be a bit much to carry around with me. I built a bow this long for target shooting a few years back and enjoyed the accuracy I got with it, but I've never had to carry it for hours at a time. I'm curious to hear how other's experiences have gone with longer bows either from a blind, stand, stalking, etc. What's the longest bow you've taken game with, and was it at all disruptive or did it impede your hunt?
Thanks
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about 70 inches, took some game,,, it will work fine,, if you are used to it,, I do prefer a shorter bow to hunt with,, but if that was what I had,, I could make it work fine,,
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The difference between 71" and 65" isn't noticeable to me. I prefer a longer bow to begin with. I started my annual new hunting bow last night. It will be 68" when all is said and done.
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When I first started hunting with FG bows I was using 70 in long bow & found out it was to cumbersome from a tree stand then switched to a 64 in recurve FG bow & found out it was better but when I first started making bows my self a little over a year ago I thought I was limited to about 68 in. Bows with my 29 in. Draw but discovered sinew and started making shorter bows my 2 main hunting bows are 62 in. NTN but currently working on a 57 in. Osage which I hope will be my perfect size hunting bow I am a big fan of shorter bows & I don't take shots beyond 30 yards & find shorter bows work great for that
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I wonder if anyone hunts with yumi... haha
Short bows are only good for short distances? Yeah, I've taken shots at 160 yards with my 53" Korean, and that's a long one. Missed most of them, though.. but some of the arrows went beyond!
fine I get it, i guess it's harder to be accurate with shorter bows... :( but they are faster! and one can be really accurate..
I'd really like to see bamboo/sinew Korean-style bows actually being used and not 100lbs like that mokgoong. Some people shoot them with 3 fingers.. but there are the ishi style bows for shorter draws
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I wonder if anyone hunts with yumi... haha
Short bows are only good for short distances? Yeah, I've taken shots at 160 yards with my 53" Korean, and that's a long one. Missed most of them, though.. but some of the arrows went beyond!
fine I get it, i guess it's harder to be accurate with shorter bows... :( but they are faster! and one can be really accurate..
I'd really like to see bamboo/sinew Korean-style bows actually being used and not 100lbs like that mokgoong. Some people shoot them with 3 fingers.. but there are the ishi style bows for shorter draws
Not according to Tim Baker and most of the findings from tests done in TTBB. Longer bows store more energy and have less string angle/stack which results in greater arrow speed.
I think Pearl Jam's Drum's thinking is much like Jim Hamm's. A few more inches on either end isn't that noticeable in most situations but it does result in more stablility and accuracy. Here's Jim Hamm's article I ran into: https://www.primitivearcher.com/articles/longbowname.html . Tim Baker's "Your First Wooden Bow" recommends you make the bow as tall as you are(granted you aren't 7 ft tall). The more I read about this and look at some of the New Guinean, Amazonian, and English longbows, the more I like the idea of a 70+ inch weapon. I'm 5'10 and I can manage through the bush pretty easily. I think a stick alongside of me could do as well.
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70"ntn I like the draw of a longer bow, seem to be a bit more accurate shooting for me.
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70" for me, and from a tree stand. As long as you are aware of your surroundings bow length shouldn't matter
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Not according to Tim Baker and most of the findings from tests done in TTBB. Longer bows store more energy and have less string angle/stack which results in greater arrow speed.
Then wouldn't there be more long flight bows? Although I suppose a whip tillered long bow wouldn't be slower.. longer bows have more limb mass. The extra energy would make them faster with heavier arrows though
I really like the idea of a 75" narrow bow with a long draw
guess they both have advantages and disadvantages
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This is a great topic I guess it depends on the type of hunting you do ,I hunt tight cover ground blind these days and mostly seated so short bows work for me it's realy hard to shoot a 70 in bow seated in deep cover pluss short bows seem to me to be quicker on target for snap shooting that's just what works for me .
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I like the clearance I get from a shorter bow of say 58-60 inches. I like the accuracy and sweetness I get from my longer bows of 64 70 inches. I will opt for accuracy over convenience when I hunt. And as others have said, I just make preparations in my blinds for the length of bow I will carry afield.
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I hunted with a 65 for years. Last year was the first year I went down in size, and took a doe at 20ish yards with my bow slightly ticked. This year I am going even shorter with 48.5 inches long. Next year, 45 inches is my goal. I havent noticed accuracy to be a problem. But that could be just me, however I doubt it. I have seen others, including Patrick, aka lebhuntfish shoot some nice groups with the bows and without practice also. I think short bows and not being accurate is just a myth.
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I have a few friends who I think are just "naturals". Hand them any bow and they can shoot it well. They don't practice much as they don't need to. My shooting is always a work in progress and always has been. My little short bows I am far less consistent with than my sweet drawing longer ones. The difference is real for me.
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What is tje difference for you? Is it elivation, or left right? I wonder if short bows are just less tollerant of spine selection?
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A lot of preference for shorties on this forum. I agree with you SLIMBOB. I could never get the hang of snap shooting with the short ones. Here's a pic of the bow I got in the works. It's pulling just above 50#@28 in. 71 in ntn linen backed red oak. Gonna shoot her in and finish it in a day or two. I think I like the length and should be able to get used to it. I think I'm done with bendy handle designs though for the longer ones. I think it makes them harder to tiller and make--always being cautious about getting the correct amount of bend at the handle is difficult,
(http://i66.tinypic.com/29ljkt4.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2j459tz.jpg)
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That's certainly part of it. Small differences in my form that make little difference on the longer bows wreak havoc on my consistency with my shorties. Again it's my consistency from shot to shot. Some of my longer bows I can pick up and shoot well first rattle out of the box. With my shorter ones I will have to get settled in on them first. I'm just much more confident with my shot placement with my longer bows.
That looks sweet btw.
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in a real life hunting situation, the difference in performance in a long bow or a well made short bow,, would probably not be noticed by the well hit game animal,, both long and short fair well in the hands of a good archer,, I thinks its a matter of personal preference,, I have shot and enjoyed both in hunting situations,, which ever one I practice with the most is most likely the best bow to take,, :)
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I've shot up to 64" or so from a blind, and maybe 62" from a tree stand ... Not that I think those are limits, that's just what I happened to have on those days. I am only 62" tall ... So I don't think a longer bow is a problem. I wouldn't go much taller than your own height just because it starts to get cumbersome, but anything up to your own height or a bit more should be no problem.
Last few years I've been hunting with a 62" longbow and a 58" recurve. Don't notice a ton of difference from a tree stand. When I build a new bow for hunting I will probably go 54-56" just because it's a lot easier from a pop-up blind. 64" is the absolute max that fits my particular blind, and every inch shorter is a half inch more clearance from the ground and the roof ....
The main thing is find is I have to take the bow into the stand before hunting and make sure I have no clearance issues with branches etc.
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I think I read Howard Hill said he couldn't do snap shooting as well with recurves... and shorter bows, maybe? But there are archers who are deadly accurate (for me) with 44" Turkish bows. Whatever works.
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Your right about Howard Hill. He, if memory serves, drug a 6 foot bow with him across the continent as he felt he was not accurate enough with a shorter bow. I'm with HH on that. Also realize that the Olympic shooters carry a 45 inch or longer bow with a 3 pound weight as the shorter bows are more finicky to shoot. Yes, with practice you can shoot any well made bow accurately I recon, and it does come down to preference. I'm just more confident about my ability with the longish ones. I envy those that can snap shoot the little shorties so accurately.
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I usually make my Hunting bows in the 62/64 range but have hunted with longer. Del the Cat gifted me one of his Long Bows and I think it is in the 70 inch range and I hunted with it, successfully by the way ;) with no issues, as PatB said just a little care in the stand area to be sure what you can and can't do and they will work fine. :)
Pappy
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Yeah I also wish I had the skill to shoot a shorty well. But they are harder to make and harder to shoot. I think I'll stick to what most of the rest of the world did aside from the Natives and make a bow that is man tall or taller. The Andaman, New Guinean, Amazonian, and some African Tribes all made bows close to a foot taller than the shooter. Many of them hunt in the densest tropics/jungles in the world and they made meat.
I made a thread like 4 years ago asking why the Natives decided to make such short bows when longer ones are easier to design, more durable, and more accurate. It's a difficult topic to understand. Many thought it was because of geographical location, but I think that doesn't make much sense when thinking about tropical tribes and their long bows in dense forests. I guess the shorter bows just worked so they stuck with it. I'd rather not though.
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Its ALL relative to height and draw length of each archer. A 50" bow is short for some and just right for the next. Short bows relative to the archer do not shoot as well as a longer bow relative to the archer. As usual, accuracy is also relative to the archer and his or her expectations. I've witnessed it too many times over the years to think otherwise.
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if you are shooting close range for game,, the short bow takes less wood to make,, is not harder to design,, and is just as durable as any bow,, and just as accurate at close range hunting shots,, and easier to carry and easier to move in tight brush or off a horse,, those are just some of the reasons the short bow came into favor,, if you have ever shot a shorter bow exclusively,, you will see how accurate you can become,, you are not at a disadvantage in any way,, I will agree,, the longer short bows are easier for me to shoot,, something I can draw 24 to 27 inches,,, lots of Ishi's bows were 50 ish,,, there is a reason for that,, long enough to have a smooth draw and power stroke,,,, short enough to have some of the advantages of the shorter bow,,,, yes if you are target shooting then the longer bows can put you at an advantage,, the shorter bows can be an advantage for the close hunting shots,, but thats not a hard fast rule, like most things in archery,,, one of the key advantages I have experienced,is there is less game spooking movement in a short draw bow,, and a little easier for me to get the shot off,, when a split second can make the difference in getting a shot at all,, when you are at 10 yards to a whitetail, you need all the advantage you can get to make the shot,, :)
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Honestly I realy don't notice the diference in accurase between my 62 in bows & my 66 in bow I think it boils down to what I feel confident with ,if my form is off with a short bow it's off with a long bow , I don't have any exsperience with short draw bows but once I can make one with out breaking it I would like to find out , as far as shortish native bows I always wondered if part of the reason was the bow was not always strung and was a lot easer to carry a short bow in a quiver while on horse back or hiking in thick brush sorry about the long winded reply but this is very interesting topic to me.
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Brad,
Anyone who says a short bow is as easy to design as a longbow either hasn't made a longer bow or hasn't made a shorter one. Or they are a very gifted bowmaker. It takes much more patience, skill, and better wood selection to get 28 inches of draw out of a 50 something inch bow. The fact that short bows take less wood to make is only half true. Shorter bows typically need wider flatter limbs and should have a lower crown so a larger diameter tree needs to be cut and split out for it. A longbow can be made from a narrow stave or sapling and made quite quickly. And I need all the help I can get to put the arrow on target, and longer limbs definitely do that.
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Our ancestors were quite a bit shorter than us though. Childhood nutrition has made us giants by comparison... Not hard to imagine that the people living in a fairly hard climate without modern technology were a bit shorter and carried shorter bows...
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Brad your Ishi comment kind of falls in line with my last comment. Is a 50" bow considered short for a guy as short as Ishi was? I'm assuming he was a fuzz over 5' tall by looking at pics.
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Pearl The only problem I have with body size theory is that some american native groups used both short 50 ish bows & long bows 70 in like in Jim Hamms book not trying to be argumentive just curious makes me wonder because not all of the 70 in bows were war bows .
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My theory. The accuracy of a longer bow has to do with the stability of the longer limbs(I believe). I don't think it has anything to do with the height of the archer. Other than draw length the bow doesn't know how tall the archer is.
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Pearl The only problem I have with body size theory is that some american native groups used both short 50 ish bows & long bows 70 in like in Jim Hamms book not trying to be argumentive just curious makes me wonder because not all of the 70 in bows were war bows .
Western Natives who didn't even use horses had bows as short or shorter than 3 ft. Those fellas surely weren't short enough to call that a medium sized bow. So, I agree. That theory doesn't always hold water.
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If I were building bows with sharpened rocks, Id build them super short to. That's a lot of work.
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Peculiar that Ishi was supposedly unimpressed with Pope's longbows, "too much man-nee"
And he didn't do as well at target shooting :P
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I came to these self bows, like many I suppose, from the compound world. The older versions were all mostly longer bows, and then the short bow ATA (axle to axle) craze hit. And they kept getting shorter and lighter until folks began to question was there a "too short", a point of diminishing return. I generally preferred the longer ATA bows as they were just sweeter shooting with less work. Point is Field and Stream (I think) did a test to determine if short bows were in fact less accurate than longer ones. Their results were about what I expected. Yes, average groups at given distances were better with the longer bows than the short ones, but it was by very little at close distances. As the distances increased, the difference was greater. It was their conclusion that at hunting distances of 20-30 yards, not enough difference to worry about. At 60 yards, go longer for better accuracy. Intuitively, this is what I had suspected. If you like them short, go short. If longer suites you better go longer. Either will work. But that doesn't change the fact that on the margins, longer bows were more accurate. I shoot both. My little Plains Style bows are a blast to shoot and with practice, I can do pretty well with them, but when inches count, I'll reach for that longer, sweet pulling, no stacking, anchor at the corner of your mouth and smile, mid 60's bow.
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68" for me. It was the first new bow I ever purchased. Dan Quillian you finish off the auction site. Prior to that it was mostly recurves in the 58-62" models.
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Our ancestors were quite a bit shorter than us though. Childhood nutrition has made us giants by comparison... Not hard to imagine that the people living in a fairly hard climate without modern technology were a bit shorter and carried shorter bows...
i don't really buy this either, do a quick google search we aren't that much taller than our ancestors.
and some of the plains tribes had a average height on par with today's
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I think folks today believe mistakenly, that the indians were a short race of people, and in fact they were by and large a tall people. I'm speaking of the plains tribes specifically. The Cheyenne, Crow and Arapaho were through various reports averaging over 68 inches tall. That is taller than the average European American of the time. As you moved west those averages were shorter, I believe around 65-66 inches was common. They were in fact a rather tall people on the whole.
I do think Pearls point stands. A person at 5 feet tall could less comfortably carry a 6 foot weapon than a 6 foot person, or so it would seem to me. Interestingly, the debate that surely began in times of antiquity regarding ideal bow length still rages today!
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ok I think about this alot,, not saying what I think is right at all, but very fun to speculate,,
the height of the archer could have something to do with the size of bow,, but thats just part of it,,
I really think the performance was one of the main factors,,,
even the short bow,,
the longer bows were that were not backed probably did best in humid conditions,, just like the bows from South America
if you get a bow to draw say 24 inches,, thats a pretty effective power stroke, and good cast can be obtained in a 48 or 50 inch bow,,if sinew backed ,,,
a self bow slightly longer will shoot well at 24 inches of draw,,
some bows were shorter and had a shorter power stroke, but at a higher poundage still effective,, on game or for war,,
I have been making bows for 30 years and they are more simple and Native like in design as I learn more and gain experience,,
I have a very short 42 inches sinew backed bow, its about 50#@ 20 inches,,
it will shoot a 500 grain arrow about 140fps,, ok thats slow compared to a good long draw self bow,, but 140 fps is 140fps,,
its so short it would almost go in a back quiver,
it is accurate for close shots,, and would make a nice hunting bow no matter how tall your were,,,
if you need more fps,, you could go up in weight to achieve more cast,, say for Buffalo or large game,, so I can see why and how some archers used the short bows effectively for hunting and war,, maybe like today,,, alot was personal preference as well,,based on what the archer liked??
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SLIMBOB, you're right! Talking about bow length is like opening a can of worms!
Brad, good points. No one is saying that short bows don't make effective hunting weapons. They just aren't as effective as a good longbow >:D. Just kidding...kinda. In the end, everyone will shoot what feels right for them. No one is right or wrong I guess
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yes lots of different bows for different applications ,, :)
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Ok. I will compromise and agree to that, so long as we can all agree that long, short, narrow, wide, straight, deflex or reflex....Osage is King in all of them!
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I think folks can make em all work,if they want too bad enough.
That comment regarding carrying your height through the brush,so carrying a longer bow through,shouldnt be a problem.I thought that odd,when i first read where Paul Comstock said it,because,how many people walk through thick brush,standing up as tall as they can and how many of them,carry their bows,the same way.LOL
Im usually crouched over and my bow is carried closer to horizontal.
Most West coast Native people,were shorter by todays standard.Ishi would have been considered a tall man among the people of that region.Ishi was 5'8" tall and most native men,of that region,averaged about 5'4".Look at the Pics of Ishi standing with Sam Batwi.Ishi's mother was so small,that the Party that ransacked the camp at Wowonupa,thought she was a child at first.
I have examined Stave trees,where a longer stave could have been taken,but was not.I believe,in the region where these staves were taken,it is too dry,for the local woods to be used,without backing and sinew fits the bill best.Where these short bows were used,and in the predominate,way they were used,by my observations of many old sites,the short bow was needed,for the small inconspicuous ambush blinds used.
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Oh...
And i forgot to answer the original question.I have used a 68" bow fine,in all different kinds of terrain.
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I like Sleeks mentality on this one. Although i rarely have the time to hunt big game, my weapon of choice is sinew backed juniper. My bow is 49" long for my 26" draw. I would never take a shot from over 20 yards though. I find after you you are camped out for 3 days in a hunting spot 15- yard shots are common. It's like you loose your scent and become a part of where you are. I've gone 2 days without seeing any game and on the third am surrounded by deer. I am adapting to 25" without even noticing.
Last month I spent a couple days on the Kaiparowits plateau and brought a little reflexed 35" sinew backed juniper with a 41# draw at 20" for small game. It sure was nice for bushwacking through scrub oak etc and had shots that you would have to see to believe(and plenty of misses). With instinctive shooting draw is not always to the same anchor. Focus, draw and shoot.
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49" with a 26" draw? I love to see some pics of this bow, got a thread link?
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No doubt shorties are accurate in the right hands, but bottom line I shoot a longer bow better and more consistent so that is what I hunt with. :) 60 to 66 n-n is the norm. :)
Pappy
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A 60 to 64 inch bow is what is usually made by me for hunting around here.Longest used a 66" bow.Although my friends here in the past have shot many deer with longer bows but as years go by shoot 62 to 64 inch bows now.What other people like is fine with me.I'm a fledgeling archer [7 years] compared to some but I believe it's the amount of practice a person does too.In that time 10 deer harvested [all with self bows/self arrows] and lots of small game so I am no veteran or expert.Especially compared to my shooting friends over here.
You'll have to feel your length of bow out for yourself through usage.Good time to say show the multiple pics of harvest from hunting.I enjoy it.Otherwise keep practicing and good hunting.
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A lot of the myth of the shorter ancestors was based on just plain bad archeology. Many examples of armor and clothes and even weapons from medieval periods etc were tiny, and for a long time it was incorrectly assumed that people were much smaller then but the true explanation turns out to be much more mundane than tiny ancestors. The fact is that these small examples of armor clothes and weapons were something these archeologists from the early 20th century should have recognized, they were literally salesman's samples, lol. Say you were an armorer of sufficient skill to warrant a storefront or of enough renown to be summoned by wealthier lords etc, you're not going to take up all your materials and space with full size examples of your work, examples you could have sold for a lot of money, you would make small scale examples, same with tailors etc. And because these were merchants samples and did not see actual use many more of these examples survived than the real deal.
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Urufu_Shinjiro....
Very interesting observations and theory.
If that reply was directed at my post,i can assure you,that my examples were not based on archeological theory,but recorded evidence by eye witness account.Evidence of this is still prevalent in these people to this day.
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They must have enough skeletons to measure by now.
Things are all relative but only up to a point. How long is the longest primitive bow in the world?
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In one of books I have around here on native bows it said that some tribes had a measurement system using there arm and body to determine the proper length bow for the owner I will try to look it up over the week end but just because some tribes did it doesent mean they all did , I think slimbob said it best if you like short bows shoot short bows if you like long bows shoot long bows & like Beadman said it's what you practice with ,if you practice enough with any size bow you can't help to get good with it !
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No traxx, that wasn't directed at anyone in particular just that generally accepted as true myth we all learned growing up. Even today some museums will have a piece of armor on display that's a sample piece and say that it shows how much smaller our ancestors were in the middle ages, though most know what they have now.
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A lot can be said for both shorter and longer bows. Personally, I lean towards the opinion of: If I'm a six-foot-tall man (and I am), and I already have to maneuver myself through the woods, and I can do it without much trouble, why would being able to move around an almost-as-long bow be that hard?
I guess for everyone there's probably some cut off. But why is a 62" or 64" bow "good" for hunting, and 68" "too long"? It's really only two inches more on either limb.
That said, I'd probably draw the line at anything longer than I am tall -- or maybe a little taller. After a certain point I agree that you eventually reach a "too long" point. But for me, 68" is no problem.
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Couldn't have said it better myself, Nakedfeet.
Pearl Drums made the point of bows being shorter since they require less effort with stone tools. Id like to hear more on this from someone who has worked with stone tools, or maybe I need to do some research on the topic. I know Otzi's bow was about 6ft tall and his was made either with stone or copper tools. Then even in North America there are traces of longer bows like the Sudbury or some of the Florida longbows being made with stone tools. Obviously these primitive bowyers were willing to take a little more time to make a longer weapon for a reason. Not sure how much longer it'd take to make a 70 inch bow vs a 50 inch one. Also we need to remember that they weren't busting out tons of bows like we do. One single, durable bow could last a lifetime. I'd make the effort to build a long efficient hunting weapon with my minimal stone tools so I knew I wouldnt have to build another one for a long time, if ever.
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Dictionary....The way I see it a person's gotta remember that in the primitive past[I mean way back there] people were subject to the best local woods they could get for bows.That might mean only straighter shorter pieces were available too.Living primitively with a bow as your food provider required one being used/others in progress.Their livelyhood depended on it.Things happen and a person does'nt want to be left out hungry.
nakedfeet...I think one reason why 62 and 64 inch bows are made is that it is enough length for a bow to be made safely with a 28" draw.The working length of limbs and draw length combo comes with a nice 6 to 10 inch cushion of length compared to the draw length.Depending on design.
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I still think it boiled down to being practicle , a couple months ago I was out scouting the area I attend to pig hunt in late September so I took my first made 66 in. Osage bow that I made for that purpose never having hunted this area I found it was loaded with briars ,heavy brush swampy mud flats oh yea lots & lots of Mesquitos & other nasty bugs so after scouting for about 7 hrs I learned quickly that most of the gear I had with me was to snaggy, backpack ,canteen with strap ,need tighter fitting clothes,strap for eye glasses Etc ,bow that was to long for my purpose I'm 6.4 ft tall & most of the time going threw cover like that the bow was vertical to my body & it still was not enought clearance to smoothly get threw that type of cover so when I go back next month I'm taking a 62 in bow because that's the shortest I have & all the other gear changes , so I think size was a matter of just plain putting food on the table , but my wife says she has her own theory why I like short little bows :laugh:
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Honestly depends on the environment. Where I hunt haha you'd be in serious trouble trying to draw that thing and shoot however I went a few away and hunted once and it would a been no trouble
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Stick Bender- I'm afraid to ask why your wife has that theory. :P But in reality, I cant see you missing out or getting hung up on many shots due to a few more inches on either end. It should improve your accuracy if anything. I think learning to shoot in many different positions is key. I think it was either Art Young, Saxton Pope or one of those legendary guys that said you need to choose what you're gonna be, either a hunter or a target shooter, because they don't really go hand in hand. Can't always get a perfect shot with the bow canted in just the right way.
Hate to beat a dead horse, but as mentioned earlier, if Howard Hill could carry his 6 foot longbow across the country and to different continents, I'm sure we can manage in the thick of things as well with a few more inches.
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Sleek, this is still one of my most used bows "Sierra Nevada style sinew backed juniper." in the posts. Everyone who says longer bows are easier to shoot are right. I still like shorter bows though.
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Yes Dictionary I'm afraid to ask her my self , I don't think anybody could argue longer bows aren't more accurate my point was It's easere to get to were you can take the shot I think most practiced archers can shoot game out to 30 yards or so with short bows ,the places I hunt these days the max shot I could take is about 30 yards , I think if I was Howard Hill & only could use one bow it would be a long one to. But wheather it's Shot gun,rifle or bow I try to target my equipment to each hunting situation I realy don't think there is one size fits all or one is better than the other , I think that's what makes this topic so interesting.
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bottom line for me is,, if the longer bows were better,, there would not have been so many short bows being used by people that made a living with them,, that being said, please understand my bow for elk hunting this year is 66 inches,, yes howard hunted with a longer bow ,, I really admire and respect his shooting talent,, as stated the east coast bows were longer for performance considerations in the humid conditions,, the subject is infinitely fascinating,, when I first started making bows 30 years ago,, most self bows were longer, and the short bows were not seen much at all,,Jay Massey shot a shorter than most at that time, and had a short draw for his size,, , when I started making and hunting with the shorter bows I was in the minority for sure,, I hunted at Jim Hamms ranch at that time with my short bow, and he joked maybe I should have brought a real bow,,I think his bow was 70 inches or so,, he had plenty of experience with the shorter sinew bows,, but preferred the accuracy of the longer bow,, so this discussion has been going on a while for me,, :) :) :) if you look at the bows at the first MOJAM the stats reflect the preference to the longer bow as well,, I think in time it will reach a balance just like the primitive archers did thousands of years ago,, sorry I rambled,,
thank you again Dictionary for the nice topic,,
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they have pros and cons.. I don't think either is better. I really have a thing for Korean and Turkish bows. I think learning to shoot shorter bows well could make it easier to move around, but longer bows are still attractive.
if we want it easy, we can just shoot wheelies, no? it's just a matter of preference..
If shortbows are more finicky, I suppose it makes sense to practice more with them.
Some designs I'd like to do:
- 40#@28.5" red oak pyramid 66"ntn (a few of these? maybe some with flipped tips etc)
- 70#@28.5" hickory pyramid 66"ntn
- flipped tips pyramid? also some longer/shorter pyramids
- 60"ntn D bows 40-75#@29" maybe 1 1/4" wide
- 72"ntn D bows 35-75#@32.5" 1" wide at handle.. wizardgoat style built up handle at back? :D
..same 55"ntn 27" draw - 36" bamboo D bow
- 58" reflex/deflex bow
- 45#-85#@33" 74" ntn Saami style static recurve with very slight bendy handle. Bamboo/ipe? bamboo backed osage? Compression spruce? Juniper and something?
- Ishi style shortbows.. maybe 53" with 28.5" draw? also with 26" draw
- 85" long with 8" of asymmetry, 32" draw
easy to dream and make a wall of text of ideas, much harder to do something. so far I've only assembled a Mead Longbows horsebow kit... ... bamboo static recurve, 50" long, 28" draw :D Dave Mead hunts with one.
Wonder if I'll ever go hunting with my 57" ttt horn bow. need to improve a lot for that. and find time.. thinking I'll start with small game. Which that bow is too heavy for (58#), except maybe with blunts. So I'd probably go with my 53" plastic Korean underdrawn with some 29" light arrows and small broadheads. I think I would use a 60" lightweight D bow to be primitive. for deer I guess I could use a 68" pyramid or something. or the hornbow
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69" is longest for me. My present hunting bow of chose is 68" . I shoot a 67" well also. For me its draw length times two plus the handle in a selfbow . Bend in the handles can be shorter. I don't build many of them though. Arvin
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Cool thread!!
Short bow is my preference, and I'm constantly eyeing my longer bow to take out and hunt with because I know I'm more accurate with it. There is something to those shorties that I like, and it seems to be the snap style shooting, like shooting a revolver from the hip - its just kinda cool!
California Indians warfare is not something I know much of, however, I imagine a quick ambush and retreat was the methods they used. In that case a short bow is essential. Imagine your ambushed along a trail, you've got a your bow strung and arrow knocked with three more arrows in your bow hand (anticipation of an attack), your gonna want that shorty to launch arrow after arrow to quickly to fend off your attackers. I wouldn't want my 60'' bow with me in that situation - with a longer draw I wont get off two arrows before I'm impaled with 3 arrows from a short bow by an Indian who knows is weapon.
I read somewhere (American explorer who visited many western tribes, cant think of him!!) that a certain plains tribe could shoot seven arrows up in the air, and get the last one off before the first one hit the ground. Perhaps some embellishment, but still impressive.
When they hunted deer I imagine they wanted as much meat as possible. Therefore set up along migratory trails where tons of deer/elk/pronghorn are passing by. Your blind is perfectly placed and you've got 20 deer passing by at 20 yards. Give me that shorty! A quick shooter who knows their weapon might get a couple deer? Just my opinion.
With Ishi style method, there's something nice in having your two eyes available when drawing that bow. Your not scoping down the arrow, but have a wide perspective of your surroundings, your peripheral vision is more in use. I think that helps in a warfare situation where your enemy is close and you need to have your head on swivel.
Now what throws me off is the long bows of South America. I always thought that they were long because living in a dense rain forest your gonna want that accuracy to get that howler monkey 70 meters up in that tree?
Shorties are fun! Longer bows I like too!
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Paiute war chief "Numaga"
Look at that shorty he's holding. Look like a 3'' brace height too!!!
Looks like he's got a longer bow in his quiver.
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I have a 29” draw and I hunt with a 67” rawhide-backed osage recurve bow I made. I also have a 68” osage bow I hunt with but I prefer the shorter bow.
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54 to 62 for hunting 26 inch draw on a good day. could never get used to a long bow.
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20 years ago I made a black locust bow I mentioned earlier..70inches.I shot a lot of tournaments,..was use to it so hunted deer and hogs ,,.killed both...I still have it
54 is what I use now