Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Marin on June 22, 2016, 07:51:15 pm
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Guys,
Chose a spot on my board to cut the stave from. I basically found the spot where the grain was relatively straight. Anyways, I laid it out and found a problem. One limb thankfully only has two known place of grain runoff while the other limb has four. I heard that a limb should only have two per limb at most. If I trap the back of he bow and make the limbs two inches wide as planned, do I still have to worry about theses runoff areas? I've included a pic.
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Just continue on, with a pyramid design you end up with runouts the length of the bow
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Just continue on, with a pyramid design you end up with runouts the length of the bow
This point seems to be largely unnoticed.
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Just continue on, with a pyramid design you end up with runouts the length of the bow
This point seems to be largely unnoticed.
😀😀😀😀😀
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Laid out the bow and made cut out the Handel section.
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More pics
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Hey bubby, to cut the taper, I saw that you used a table saw. Did you make a jig so that it cut at an angle?
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No jig i just i balled it, leave the line and use i file to get to the line
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There's board info on my site. Jawge
http://traditionalarchery101.com/
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Hey forgot to,ask on my thread about my board. I was noticing the crown more and more when I cut it and I have heard that you want a board with thick, well spaced rings. How does my crown look? I just can't tell.
Also just got me some titebond ii so ready to glue handles. But before I do at I must determine which is backhand which is belly. I found a 1 inch small dent in my board on one side. Would it be dangerous to put the back on this side? It's not too deep but it is noticeable.
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Here's the scratch. It's not very noticeable,unless on close inspection. It's in one of the grain lines and near the handle so maybe it won't have much of an effect. Just need to know?
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Anybody think the scratch is too significant for me to put the back on that side?
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Looks close enough to the handle to me.. But I am pretty optimistic up until it becomes a splinter grenade and thennnn I realize
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I can't even see it it will prolly sand out don't you think
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How does the crown of the wood look though? Forgot to ask.
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It's a board so it doesn't have a crown, that bow ain't gonna build itself ya know😉
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Just sand the mark out
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By crown, I mean the top side (the shortest side). I am asking how does the boards rings look? Does it look like it has a lot of early wood rings? I forgot to take that into account.
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Doesn't really matter u just need to get off the bench and in the game i think it will be fine
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Hope ya have that fine looking board roughed out to a bow tomorrow. Good luck!
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Okay. I'm gluing the handle tomorrow. Sorry if I'm asking too many questions, I just want to be sure to get as much as possible right on this bow so if it goes wrong, I know what went wrong.
Now,before I glue the handle on, I have to decide which will be the back and belly. Are there any tips I need to know about which one it should be? Does that little splinter "dent" play a factor?
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I like to make the outside the back using the ring orientation as a guide but it doesn't really matter i don't think that little scratch will be the downfall if she fails
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What do you mean by the ring orientation? Are you talking about the ring profile at the end of the board? If so, do you make the back the side that would be closer to the outside of the bow?
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I mean trees are round right? So say the end grain is like this )))))
Which side is the outside of the tree?
But if its like //// or llll it doesn't matter
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There are certain aspects in regards to a stave that's has one growth ring for a back and a stave from a board that just do not apply. If there is a crown it is probably only there if you make it so, as in take a file and create it on the center of the back not much to worry about there unless there is obvious and tremendous cupping on your board to begin with. I just pick the side with the straighter grain and start by taking a string and placing it on a mark at the tip'a center, I can then pull it down to the other end and make a mark for the center of the other tip on the same grain line. Your board looks plenty straight grained to me. At work Thursday a little baby bird zinged right by my face on it's first attempt at flying, the parent bird right by it in midair. It "flew" all the way to the ground and stood there regrouping. Not a success and not a failure but a big perspective shift. Bubby and some of the other guys are awesome papa birds that will help in any way but also know that they got to shove you off those rafters in order for anyone to learn. Pearl drums said to someone the other day on here that to appreciate advice is to heed it and if their advice is go for it then do! You'll be spitting arrows from your own bow in no time, whether it's this attempt or a next
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Lumber Man I like your analogy it's spot on Marin I'm a new bowyer also so I understand your fear & wanting to cover every detail but you will learn a lot more buy just doing it ! I had a osage stave that was twisted ,bowed really a challenging ugly stave over a year I pulled it down from the rafters looked at & put it back up about 10 times & about the 11th time I pulled it down said the heck with it ether it's going to be a bow or break it turned out to be one of my best bows but my frustration had to over come my fear I think Bubby is just trying to give you a gentle kick in the pants like others did to me !
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Your board is what is known as a rift sawn board. Search for the terms flat sawn ,rift sawn and quarter sawn to understand better.
The grain orientation on your board means that you can choose either side for the back.
What matters with any grain orientation on a board bow is that the fibers (grain) run straight. Your board looks pretty good.
Regarding that mark on your board - if the fibers are dented in then you could steam the area and it will come back out. A wet rag and an iron work well. Again a quick search opn 'raising dents in wood with steam' should get you a fuller explaination. If it is a scratch then the fibers have been cut and this method won't work and you will be able to sand it out or fill it with superglue then flatten it.
Your board will likely have been planed and you should give it a light sanding with 80 grit before gluing. Make sure and keep it flat by using a dead flat block to sand with. I use plate glass or marble off cuts from a worktop place nearby....cork sanding blocks aren't the tool for this job!
Good luck.
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Guys,
Won't be able to glue handle on today as I had something come up. Won't be able to work on bow this week due to a small trip I'm taking but I will get back to it the week after next. Just telling you so you guys dot think I went off he deep end and gave up, ;)
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It happens @Marvin , but I surely want to see how this comes up, so don't give up 😉
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Have been having problem with my saw. Might take me a bit longer to make cuts than expected. Sorry
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Good to see you back I'm following your build hope you get your saw fixed
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Got the saw working again and was able to cut the profile with a skill saw. I will try cutting the belly taper on Saturday. I tried not cutting on the lines but sometimes I would get really close. For the belly taper, is there something besides a bandsaw I can use to cut it? I have a jigsaw but am unsure if I can keep it straight enough.
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You can do all the belly rough removal with a good rasp
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I usually use a rasp for rough material removal, a couple files and different grits of sandpaper.
Good luck!
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I use all the above pluss I use scrapers a lot leaves a verry smoth surfice I pick up paint scrapers from good will for $2 they work great also 38 grit sanding belts cut & glued on a peace of lumber works really well poor mans rasp , but when I get close to where I want I always swith to scrapers & finer grit sand paper
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Hey I just measured my cut out board I was going to glue on for the handle section and I found that I cut it about 2/16 of an inch shorter than the wanted 8 inches. Should I recut another piece or does a difference like this matter?
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A 1/16 on either end won't matter.
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Wouldn't give it another thought. March on.
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Do you guys lightly rasp before gluing your handle to your bow? I heard some people do that and others lightly rasp and then glue both sides, let those sides dry, and then glue it on. I'm going to lightly rasp my handle and bow (where the handle is going to be at) before gluing it. If anyone concurs, please say.
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I'd go with some course paper. Rasps can ruin things in a hurry. You don't wanna rough it up too much.
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I just sand it if you are using tb glues they aren't gap filling so you want an tight fit
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Okay,glued on handle after a light sanding. When gluing it, it was a little harder than I thought. I have clamps of 3 different sizes so the thing was sliding around while I was trying to clamp it down but I was able to get it into the spot I wanted. Hope it turns out well. I don't think I clamped it too hard :-\
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Sweet! What thickness is the board at? The limbs that is
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I have not reduced the belly thickness yet.
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Just got in from cuttin fthe handle. I I clamped the handle an d checked which made me a little worried because on one side I saw a little bit I of a gap :-[
I used a jigsaw to roughly cut it and I think it has rendered me half deaf ;)
Here's how it looks. I checked the edges. I guess the gap,was only at the front. What do you guys think of the glue job?
Hopefully I will start rasping the belly and handle tommorow but maybe not.
Ill get back to you guys
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Well you on at the start of the journey, enjoy the trip and post pics😉
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Hard to tell from the pics, but looks good to me.
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Cool! Wear those ear plugs lol. I am always wearing them but then when I cut or smash my fingers hard enough to holler it's extra loud and angers the wife upstairs..so be careful of that
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Lumber Man I like your analogy it's spot on Marin I'm a new bowyer also so I understand your fear & wanting to cover every detail but you will learn a lot more buy just doing it ! I had a osage stave that was twisted ,bowed really a challenging ugly stave over a year I pulled it down from the rafters looked at & put it back up about 10 times & about the 11th time I pulled it down said the heck with it ether it's going to be a bow or break it turned out to be one of my best bows but my frustration had to over come my fear I think Bubby is just trying to give you a gentle kick in the pants like others did to me !
so far I have broken 2 self bow ( attempts) Russian olive is for mor experienced folks🤓And I have broken 1 oak 1 hickory board bows ( attempts) each on teaches me something. I have my first success and it is a kick in the butt to sling arrows with it. So take it from me JUST START SHAVING THAT WOOD and don't give up!
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Well, you are at the start of the journey, enjoy the trip and post pics😉
+1, and take pics closer up so these ole eyes can see what you're illustrating.
Good luck!
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Okay, well I was busy for the last 2 weeks (a Utah and Idaho trip) and returned without juniper (but instead with a nice osage stave my uncle gave me :laugh:) but now I'm back. I just got in from rasping the sides of the limbs (well only half) with a Nicholson rasp. It took a while but after watching a rasping technique video by boarrior bows, i was able to do it quicker. However, I did notice that the surface of my rasping job on one of the limbs doesn't feel exactly even, with one side of it being lower than the other at times, and that the profiles of some of my rasping jobs is not entirely even either. It's not noticeable at first glance but, for future reference, would this hinder the bows performance? And do you guys use Nicholson rasps on board bows or do you use surform rasps and drawknifes?
I'll post some pics of my rasping jobs. Tell me what you think.
I'll finish up other side tommorow (hopefully).
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Here's the pics.
This is a profile of one of the limbs.cthe rasping job is on the top. The little dip near the tip is due to a mistake I made with sawing but the rest of it has been rasped down to the line. Am I supposed to keep the line or not?
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More pics. How's my rasping job?
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Personally surforms are almost worthless.try and just leave the line if you can, get everything as even as you can especially on the belly thickness
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When you go to removing the belly hold the file in an angle and rasp to the line on both limbs. This will leave a crown or high center of the belly, then remove that crown
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That technique you just described was the one I was using on one of the limbs (I got it from boarrior a bows) but that was how I kind of got an uneven surface. That could because I don't have a line to raps down to on the other side however.
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Does slight unevenness of e profile matter however? I know the belly would matter (of course) but what of the sides? I mean from what I read it shouldn't matter but I am curious. Also, so do you use a Nicholson also?
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The closer to even the better but you are probably ok with the side profile right now. I use Nicholson and a bellotta farriers rasp
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I don't have a line to raps down to on the other side however.
I draw limb thickness line on both edges of each limb.
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Just got in. I finished rasping the profile. In general, I tried to get down to (or as close) to the line as possible. It's not perfectly straight but you can't tell without close inspection. I also rasped the handle and now my board looks a bit more like a bow. I'm going to rasp the belly tomorrow and possibly floor tiler and do final tillering on Friday. I am debating whether or not to make a tiller stick or tree as I am tempted to try and learn the technique that doesn't require it as I enjoy learning primitive techniques. I believe there is one technique I heard of where you place the back of the bow against your chest and pull out the string slightly to check the limb bending, then you shave off the parts that aren't bending evenly and then try it again. I don't know how well it works but is seems like some people swear by it. It would save me time and materials. Then again I haven't tillered a bow before. What do you guys suggest?
I'll post some pics
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Okay here's a pic of the profile of the bow now.
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Here's the handle. I had a hard time trying to make the transition between handle and belly smooth and there is still a small lip if you can see. I know it's an aesthetics issue but how do you guys get rid of that?
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Look at 5th pic. Fade should extend into limb. So handle doesn't pop off.
CHECK_OUT_THIS_LINK_http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=125;t=002064;p=2
Good luck!
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Do ya have a rounded side on your rasp or a four sided file?
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I've got a rounded side.
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Oh forgot to ask, I'm going to trap my back after rasping the belly taper tommorow. How much of the back do I leave on?
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Use drawknife or rasp to make transition smooth.
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DO NOT USE THE RASP TO TRAP THE BACK, just use a sanding block or a scraper and just remove enough to make the flat on the 45deg angle about 1/4" wide. Most of the back should remain
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Lotsa good info for newbies here.
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Here's the handle. I had a hard time trying to make the transition between handle and belly smooth and there is still a small lip if you can see. I know it's an aesthetics issue but how do you guys get rid of that?
I like to pre-taper the handle on my belt sander BEFORE I glue it on to the belly of the bow. ...and I agree that it likely should have been a bit longer to avoid the popped-off handle issues. You can help prevent that issue with a silk or other fiber wrap that covers the transition. Saturate the wrap in superglue or epoxy after you lay it down.
OneBow
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I like to do it ahead of time as well after having the difficulty smoothing the transition myself. I found if I came at it across the side angled from the center I could take down each edge and then the center easier. I also put a super thin lam on the belly to avoid singing it at first, then once the lip was real small I put a piece of paper and used the finer side of the rounded file, if ya remember that you are not going for a straight lined angle / from the belly to the handle. A gradual slope that gets increasingly steep to the heigth of the handle you are going for is better
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the reason handles pop off is that the bow bends to much in that area.as long as the fades extend past the handle you should be all right but that area needs to blwnd in with more of a radius
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Bubby,
When you mean the trapped back has to be 1/4 of an inch wide, you mean the chamfer has to be a fourth of an inch wide at a constant 45 degree angle all the way along the bow (including through the handle), right?
And handles pop off because the transition is not good? I don't think my fades extend past the handle. What should I do?
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Yes try and just chamfer the back corners, i don't think you want to big of a trap is why i said 1/4", how long is the riser that you glued on?
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The length you gave me: 8 inches
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Do I trap the back before or after carving belly taper?
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The length you gave me: 8 inches
Heh
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I got the measurements for the design from bubby earlier. Now it is probably more like 7 15/16 of an inch but it is still basically the measurements that bubby suggested my bow be.
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2" fades and 4" handle 8" works just fine, with a board you start with roughly 3/4" in thickness, the starting limb thickness is less than that under 1/2" and the actual fades are the transition to the working limb as everything thicker than the limb shouldn't be bending. A smooth radiused fade that extends past the riser block is how i do it just like in the build a long, heck most of that block gets removed when shaped anyway right
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Trap back after belly taper done.
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Trap back after belly taper done.
Yep I've trapped a few backs and in my experience, it should be about the last thing you do just before you make weight. If you do it too early in the tillering process you loose a lot of limb width very quickly.
DBar
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Weird... I'd expect it to throw the tiller off. good to know..
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Again in my experience..... trapping the back you won't loose much weight maybe 2-4 lbs on a 30 deg trap. what it does do.. is to lessen the mass weight and help a compression weak wood by lessening the back tension strength. not over powering the belly(frets showing up)...Trapping works good on woods like hickory and hackberry...which are tension strong woods.
Wow I hope you understand my explanation.......:)
DBar
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I understand your explanation Danzn. Ear.
Bubby, do I need to redo my handle or just continue with shaping? If I make the transition perfect, it should work fine right?
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Trap back after belly taper done.
in my experience, it should be about the last thing you do just before you make weight. If you do it too early in the tillering process you loose a lot of limb width very quickly.
DBar
ahhhh, that makes sense to me..
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Keep shaping
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Kay I shaped one of the fades and was able to get the transition almost perfect. I got rid of the lip but, as I was using that rapsi technique of rounding the corners and then rapsing down the crown made by it, I found that my transitions almost curves from one side to the other. It isn't major but you can see it. Here's a pic of it.it doesn't affect the bow does it?
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Here's some more pics. Tell me how you like my rasping job.
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Getting better Marin, focus on thinning the limbs down that is going to mean some more fade work when all is said and done
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Like Bubby said...those fades from the handle will round out nicely as you bring the limb thickness down. Using the a rasp with a rounded edge works great on fades....even a round file.
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So my fade work is fine? Bubby, so I'm going to be able to work more on the fades as I thin the limbs down? And ajooter, a roundness in my fades is natural when using a rounded rasp?
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Finished rasping the belly taper. I got as close to the line as possible without rasping it off. The belly feels pretty even but looking at it closely I can see some unevenness and it appears to be slightly rounded from my rasping job. I hope this can be fixed when I floor tiller and do the final tillering.
I do have a question. At this stage I would trap the back but I heard someone say that trapping the back causes the bow to loose 3 lbs. Is this true? Should I still trap the back even though my bow will loose draw weight? However, if I trap the back, can I attempt a higher draw weight?
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Marin, have you had a chance to floor tiller yet? You wouldn't need to trap the back until you are close to done with final tillering. If you absolutely want to make weight then just aim for slightly heavier than you want and trap the back when you within 6-8 inches of your draw length. Then check tiller and shoot it in.
Don't worry about trapping yet. Get her bending.
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Haven't had time these past couple of weeks to work on it.
Finally have some time today. I am currently floor tillering the bow.
The bow is bending when I put the one limb on the ground against my foot and bend it towards me but it still feels a little stiff. How do I know what is "enough" floor tillering? By that I mean how do I know when I should stop floor tillering and begin final tillering?
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Anyone know if besides Dacron b50 there are other bowstring materials i could use instead? I have some 1000% polyester thread for serving machines so i'm wondering if that could be used, as dacron is polyester?
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I don't see why not - dacron is polyester. when in doubt just make it thick. even if it's braided it should be fine
Adam Karpowicz mentions using copper wire as a tillering string... anything stiff enough should work. Any natural fiber, or any synthetic fiber other than nylon that's no stretchier than polyester I guess
If your bow is heavy, it will feel very stiff. Even if it's straight, 70lbs feels very stiff for me to string. You probably don't want it to be too easy to bend at floor tiller or you'd end up underweight after tillering. Just don't break it or something.
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Well, just got in from floor tillering. I decided to rasp my belly taper line off and now the thing is a bit easier to bend. It still is stiff but I heard that's good so hopefully I didn't remove too much :-\
I'm including some pics of my limb. If anythings wrong please tell me.now I am going to cut the nocks, make a long tillering string, and try to figure how I'm going to tiller. In wondering if I should use a tillering device or, to save time, try to use a mirror. Anyone have suggestions?
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Here's some pics. The first two is the lb being floor tilllered and the last one is the limb and how it looks from the top view.
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Here's a pic of something bad I found. My glued on handle has a gap. I haven't seen it till now and I don't know how it developed. Anybody know what I should do to fix it?
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Guys, I was about to use some 100% polyester thread and to test it out I tired to break it with my hands. It broke >:(
I heard it is the number of strands that controls the strength of bow string. If I use enough strands, could it make a good bow string or should I just not use it at all?
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Marin how long is your bow I'll make you a string for it
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i'm a beginner too and was wondering if it's a good idea to wrap a glued-on handle tightly with strong thread or sinew to prevent it from popping off?
for a tillering long string, that stuff may be okay but it seems like you'd have to make it very thick - it'd be a very poor bowstring
try hanging weights from it until it breaks to find around what the breaking strength of each strand is. make it so the breaking strength is something like 250lbs
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Anyone know if besides Dacron b50 there are other bowstring materials i could use instead? I have some 1000% polyester thread for serving machines so i'm wondering if that could be used, as dacron is polyester?
Spectra fishing line works. Dyneema,Spiderwire, one of those.
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Bubby,
I Sent you a personal message concerning that offer.
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I'm about to make tillering gizmo. I think I'll just make one without a pulley (a tillering stick). Does anyone think I should do a different design?
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Guys, I was about to use some 100% polyester thread and to test it out I tired to break it with my hands. It broke >:(
I heard it is the number of strands that controls the strength of bow string. If I use enough strands, could it make a good bow string or should I just not use it at all?
Polyester thread is probably spun up with short strands. Actual polyester bowstring or artificial sinew(the polyester type) is long continuous fibers.
Get some fishing line for a no stretch string.
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I'm about to make tillering gizmo. I think I'll just make one without a pulley (a tillering stick). Does anyone think I should do a different design?
A tillering stick works just fine, even against popular consensus around here. People were using them for a long time before the pully became so popular.
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I use a tree mounted on the shed wall, no pulleys
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Once again, I've been bay for the past couple of weeks but I am about to cut the nocks. Just wondering, do I need a chainsaw file to carve them or could I just cut them with a pocket knife?
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Does anyone know the answer?
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The answer is it wirks better and is easier to use a file they are inexpensive. Carve it out with a knife but it will take a lot of sanding to get it smoothed up enough not to cut the string
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You can use thin round file for shaping metal if you don't have one for wood, that is how I do it, it is a bit longer to do, but doesn't matter. Also it leaves very fine nocks which need just a bit sanding.
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Just cut the nocks. I used a triangular file to start the out and then used a chainsaw file (like bubby) when I finished, I noticed the nocks aren't exactly aligned. It's fine if their not exactly aligned, right?
Here's some images so you can give feedback if you want.
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Almost forgot, when I was measuring out for e nocks I noticed that on the back of my bow, there are some dents. This is from where I clamped the bow to the workbench when rasping and the workbench left a mark. They are not deep but I am curious as since I am not supposed to even touch the back, will these dents cause any hindrances when tillering? I know this might be a stupid question but I just need to know for future reference.
I've attached some images
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Just put my long tillering string on just to see how it would fit. It keeps slipping off. Should I go any deeper with my nocks? I haven't done nocks before so I don't know if I have gone deep enough and it's just that my nocks are done poorly.
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They aren't deep enough, try and even them up as good as you can and sand the edges of the bow so they aren't square. I can't really see the dents but you can sand the back, radius all edges and if the dents are still there a damp rag and an iron should pull them out
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It is funny but I never made perfectly aligned string grooves. Even though I mark with pen their location, I can't seem to cut directly where the lines are.
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Bubby, what do you mean by "sand the edges so they're not square"?
Also, what does "radius all edges" mean? Sorry, I don't know terminology that well.
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You do not want any edges that are not rounded, a square edge is a spot that will raise a sliver, round them with sand paper. About the same as a pea, a radius is simply a circle for an easy explanation
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Popping the handle is not the only thing. That can happen if you allow the fades to flex at all.
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Thanks Bubby,
About tillering sticks, I really like yours with the movable peg. I saw a pic of it in your board bow build along and it is more likely for me to do that as I do not have a band-saw and my jigsaw will not make straight enough cuts. I have a split scrap piece of pine 2x4 i was going to use to make a tillering stick but I noticed your tillering stick doesn't have a mark for each inch but goes up by different intervals. Do I need to make a mark for every inch when making a tillering stick like yours? Or did you do that because you did something special when tillering?
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Guys,
Yeah I have been really busy but I did retouch the notches and the string stays in.
About tillering sticks,codes it matter if the bow is above the string? What I mean is I was planning on making a tillering stick with a peg and cut a notch in the top of the stick to support the bow. However, this means it will not be above the string and it could twist. What do you guys think? I cannot cut notches as my only tool that I could use to do that, a jigsaw, is not very accurate. Is their another way to make notches? Could I use a branch as a tillering stick? Or does this whole problem of not,placing the bow over the org area matter?
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You can just cut sticks if you want, differant lengths like 10,12,14
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Wait, I don't have to do it for every inch (10,11,12,13....) but I can do it for every 2 inches?
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Hey
Finally found a way to cut notches on stick. But about measuring them, I know they must be at a 45 degree angles every inch. But where am I measuring them from? Do I measure, say for the first one, from the top of board at the point the bow is resting or do I measure from that point to where the back of the bow would be? And if the second is true, then do I have to adjust the measurmemnt if I am making a flatter bow with a thinner handle?
I just want to know how you guys measure on a tillering stick the notches.
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I measure from "top of board st the point the bow is resting". Then mentally add handle thickness as tillering each bow.
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So, if say I'm tillering a 28" draw length bow, I would tiller it to the 27" nock?
Also, do I need to take into account where the notch ends in the board? By that I mean should I measure out where the notch ends in the board then draw a 45 degree mark and draw a line to the edge of the board?
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Or am I understanding it wrong?
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Your over thinking it, just measure feom the back of the bow to the notch at say 10" then mark the notches on the stick
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Ok. But also, don't I start at six inches with my measurements, so I tiller to brace height, or do you not do that?
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Tiller to full draw not brace no matter what your brace is your draw length will be the end result
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Hey guys,
Well, I finally got time to work on tillering today. I finished my tillering stick last week and my tillering gizmo yesterday. I've been busy for the last couple of weeks, plus it's been raining a lot here in the Bay Area. I really wanted to work on the thing around thanksgiving but had a really bad case of posion oak on face and arms :(
I was so scared about tillering this bow (as I have never done it before and am afraid that I will screw up big time) that this morning, I spent an hour reviewing all the references materials I had (TBB Vol. 1 tillering chapter, the bent stick, and several youtube videos) until I felt confident I know what to do with tillering.
But here's my bow being tillered with the long string (I'll attach pics) . I worked almost all afternoon getting the tiller even (it is not even yet) but the gizmo is my wonder tool. Thanks for suggesting it bubby. It really points out all the flat spots and hopefully I'll get better at seeing them without the tool.
I decided to pull the string to 8 on my tiller stick (that makes it a draw length of nine inches) and make the tiller even. Even when it got too dark to work (which was three hours later) I still hadn't gotten it even though I noticed improvement. Does this sound normal for a beginner: to spend several hours evening out a tiller at one particular draw length?
Also, about tillering, so once I get the tiller even, I move onto 9 and then check for any unevenness? Do I have to do anything else special before, besides exercising the limb? Also, I exercise the limb every time I take off wood right? Just want to know so I know I'm understanding tillering right.
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Okay here are some photos
The first shows the first time the bow was on the tiller tree. I then took my tillering gizmo (pic 2) and ran it under it. Some portions of the limb had pencil marks on it (pics 3) and I shaved off the pencil marks with a rasp. I then sanded the tool makes off and made the edges round again on the portions that had been rasped.
Quick question, do I have to sand it after rasping a small portion of it? I ought you do but if you don't have to it would be nice to know
The fourth photo is of the second time I placed the bow on the tiller tree. Not much improvement but it's just it show you guys.
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More photos of the bow placed on the tree after several successive shavings with a rasp. I placed it on the tree more times an what is pictured but these pics should show you the progression of the tiller.
As I said before, it is still not even (my tillering gizmo is still marking stiff spots) but it seems to be better than when I began.
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Last two photos I took before calling it for the day. These are side profiles of the limbs while the bow was on the tree. It shows what the belly surface looks like.
Anyways, what do you guys think? Am I doing it right so far?
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another thing,
My tillering gizmo doesn't reach down to the tips nor does it reach the areas close to the fades. I haven't been shaving these down. Is that fine? I heard stiff tipped bows are very good so I thought it might be a good idea to not shave down the tips.
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Does anyone know the answer to my questions? And anyone think my tillering is bad?
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You need ro get it bending more to get any advice the pics don't show much tip movement. Just keep soing what you are doing
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No, tillering is not bad, and you are right to go slowly, never overstraining the work. But the pics are small and it's hard to see much happening at only a couple inches of tip movement.
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Is there a way I can use bigger photos? The posts only allow for a certain data size that only that only the Small photos can fit.
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I upload my pics to photobucket it's a free storage site that auto sizes the pics
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I take my pics full size with my camera and size them with IrfanView. It is free, just google it and downoad. It has a button to size pics for the desktop and it always works for me. I am enjoying this thread.
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I upload my pics to photobucket it's a free storage site that auto sizes the pics
+1.
I copy path/filename in Photobucket to my clipboard. Then use [Insert Image] icon here in PA and paste path/filename between the (http://) brackets where wanna locate pic in PA post. Image size will auto be sized appropriately.
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Well, just got back in from another couple of hours of tillering, just wanted to tell you guys so you don't think I gave up.
I'm getting better at my strokes with my rasp and it seems the tillering gizmo isn't picking up any hinges right now, though I m still at the same draw length as I was last week. However, the gizmo is now only marking the entire limb. I can't tell if that means that I'm ready to move onto the next draw length or just keep on shaving the limbs because they're still stiff. Should I move on? I do not think it is marking the entire length because the pencil is sticking out to much as it is only sticking out of the gizmo about 1/8" although the pencil was out slightly longer than before but not by much.
Also, I've noticed that with the rasp, the belly of the bow can become uneven. I think this problem is starting to go away as I tiller more but how can I prevent this problem?
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Start using a scraper instead of the rasp
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And use it a varying angles. Down the length, across the width and everything in between. You soon see it flatten out ;)
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And what about what I found with my tillering gizmo? Does it mean it's time to move to,the best draw weight or that I just keep shaving the limb down because it's too stiff?
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If your draw weight is supposed to be 50# pull it till it hits 50 and check it there
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Thanks. I was a little confused with long string tillering as to what point you pull the bow to.
For future reference, so whenever tillering, whether it be long string, short brace, or normal brace, you always pull he bow to its desired draw weight and check the bend?
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Well don't pull it past the target weight, once it is bending about8" brace it to 3" if the limbs are bending evenly
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When you say 8", you mean the limbs are bending 8"? I already have been pulling it to about 8" draw length on the tillering stick and it doesn't look like its ready for short brace.
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I mean the limb tips need to move about 8-10" not where the string is on the tillering stick 😉
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Thanks
Also, had so,e time just after writing that message to try out what you told me and try to pull the bow until it reaches intended draw weight. I got out the bathroom scale and carefully pulled. The bow is still quite stiff so I stopped at 20 lbs at 11" of draw. I took pics and I think you can see the tiller much better now. Perhaps you can't but so far it looks like it is only near the fades that is stiff. Can anyone else tell how my tiller is?
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Time to go for low brace. Measurements on the long string don't mean much when compared to others.
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Already? I thought you have to get up to at least 16" draw before going to low brace?
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How are you measuring that 16"? What if your long string was longer or shorter. You have your bow bending enough so that it looks like it's low braced. It's time to get it low braced.
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Not low brace yet, but get the string as tight as you can
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I'll defer to Bubby. He's made more board bows than me ;D ;D ;D
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Oh! Now I see.
Thanks guys.
Maybe my bow isn't be ding enough but does my tiller look pretty good?
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Sorry, meant to write bending not be ding
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Oh yeah, and also about the draw weight, I said that at 11" it is 20# but it feels quite stiff. Maybe it's just because of my strength that it feels really stiff but do you think I can safely pull it to its draw weight yet?
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Ok, just went back to TBB 1 to see if my question might be answered as it sounded like I heard something about it and it does say to pull to half it's draw weight and check the tiller.
So I guess I must defer to my original question of how do you guys think it's bending?
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May want to take it up to 25# & see if bending evenly.
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I'll try tommorow and take a picture.
It shouldn't break, right?
Sorry, I've never done this before so whenever I bend it i am unsure what feels right and wrong.
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unlikely to break.
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Good.
Also, about a scraper, what kind of flat scraper could I get? Might a sureform rasp work or is there anything better you guys use?
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For the longest time i used a 6 inch lockback knife. But a,paint scraper will work
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Really? I didn't know that. I'll have to try it.
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Oh yeah, also since I'm going to be pulling he bow to longer draw lengths, I want to know if my nocks won't let the string slip. I sanded them more on Monday and the sting is staying in much better but how can you tell if they're deep enough?
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The string will stay in😂 the string should sit at leaat flush with the outside
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Flat card scrappers are avalible at most wood working stores they work well , also you can use different grits sand paper glued to flat boards to smooth limbs , I pick up old paint scrapers at good will for $2 theres a lot of cheap options for doing it
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I have like 20 scrapers running around and I end up using most or all of them, just, whenever....card, or cabinet scrapers work well. I have some utility knife blades hafted with JB Weld, repurposed spring steel putty knife, an old jointer blade, couple old pocket knives, etc...But, a $4.00 pair of scissors will give you two good scrapers that are easy to sharpen.
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Okay so it's raining today >:( but I decided just to pull he bow in the stick to 25 lbs as you guys suggested and then run my little gizmo along both limbs. I took pictures and was trying to look at the limbs and get better at determining imperfections without the gizmo. Looking at first before I ran the gizmo I noticed that one limb (the left) has what appears to be a hinge. I took pics and canted turbine though when I ran the gizmo along the limb, the gap between the block and the limb got wider.
Am I right or is it just that the right limb is stiffer than the left and the left is bending properly? Also, if it is a hinge, I relieve it by sanding/scraping on either sides of it right?
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Here's the first photo
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The last two. Notice the left limb and how it bends more. I don't know if this is just because the right limb is stiffer than the left limb.
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Oh yeah,calls, when talking about using a scraper/knife/scissors, you use it by holding the blade perpendicular to the limb and scraping, not like how you would use a pocket knife to whittle?
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Just in case, I checked in the tillering stick my bow and made sure to pay attention to the gap space between the gizmo and the bow. The right limb, overall, appears to have less room between the gizmo and the limb while the left limb, overall, has much wider space between it and the gizmo. Is this because I am right about the left limb's hinge or is it because the right limb is just stiffer?
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With the gizmo you find the widest spot, set the pencil so that it almost touches in that spot then move it back and forth. Remove wood where the marks are and only where the marks are. Yes use the sissors as a scraper
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Oh, I see!
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With the gizmo you find the widest spot, set the pencil so that it almost touches in that spot then move it back and forth. Remove wood where the marks are and only where the marks are. Yes use the sissors as a scraper
Bub, you're truly one of the GOOD GUYS!
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Bub, you're truly one of the GOOD GUYS!
[/quote]
X 2! :)
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Indeed he is.
Marin, it does look more like simply bending MORE than a hinge. A hinge is kind of more relative to the limb around it than the opposite limb. It's a kink or bowed out area that is bending too much. BUT, you are right about finding them and arresting them early.
In the TBB's it describes a method that I preach a lot for controlled, systematic wood removal that allows for gradual adjustments and few mistakes. It is basically that you mark up the limb wherever you want to remove wood, (kind of like the gizmo does) then remove the marks and check the results. In TBB it's mentioned primarily for weight reduction, but it works for tiller, too, especially early on.
So, do you have a rasp? One way is to use the rasp to lightly and evenly scuff up the belly of the stiffer limb (or stiffer spots). Not removing much or hogging off material, just good diagonal strokes until the rasp bites enough to leave marks. Then use your scraper to scrape all the rasped areas smooth again. Then check tiller, or weight or whatever.
So in your case, the right limb IS stiffer right now, but it's hard to see any trouble spots yet. One pass with the rasp and one with the scraper might bring them closer to the same AMOUNT of bend, where you can then see if the bend is the SAME. You can just use the gizmo and pencil marks for this, too, but if you see an area that the gizmo tells you is WAY too thick, you might rasp, then scrape rather than just taking off the pencil marks.
Alternatively, one thing I do when making bows with kids or scouts is give them all a big fat black crayon. If you want to go slower or more carefully, just scribble over the thick spots or the gizmo marks a bit, then scrape until crayon is all gone.
Yes, you want to scrape, not whittle or carve the belly of the bow.
Lastly, when using a tillering stick like that, find another long lightweight slat or board that has a straight edge, or tie a string between posts that you can run tip to tip when the bow is pulled with the long string. That will really show you stuff like which limb bends more.
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Thanks spring buck,
That really helps me
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You don't have a hinge. Set your gizmo on the deepest bend on the left limb, mark your limb then use the same setting on the right limb. Using the same setting for both limbs will bring them both to an equal bend.
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Well, I tillered some more today and I think I got the limbs now even in bending. There's still woke stiff spots on the left limb but overall everything looks good.
I'll attach some pictures , please give your opinions. Payout guys were tight, there is no hinge but I've been going over the limbs constantly with the tillering gizmo and have been using scissors as a scraper. I even found a nice trick on how to see the evenness of,the bend better by laying the bow flat on the ground and using the slats of my deck as a straight line of reference
Here's some pictures
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Here's the last coupe, of pictures. The last photo is how the bow looked when I fi sites for the day. I believe the bend is even though e overall tiller needs to be improved on just the left limb. But please, give me your thoughts on how it looks.
But I have been having one problem, the pencil in my gizmo keeps on getting pushed back in. I read Krewson's article on gizmos and I screwed in my pencil just like he did, but mine seems like it needs to be constantly readjusted. Anyone have any tips?
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Use a different nut or pencil. Mine was fairly difficult to thread in. After a bit it turns relatively easily. Bows looking pretty good.
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Oh and forgot to mention (though this may be unimportant) to get the right limb bending more I did several oases with a rasp and then used a scraper.
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Thanks DC btw. I'll find another pencil
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Oh also forgot to mention, when I un string the bow and lay it down flat, I notice that the string follow of the right limb (the one that was stiffer) is greater than the left limb? Is this supposed to be happening?
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Use a different nut or pencil. Mine was fairly difficult to thread in. After a bit it turns relatively easily. Bows looking pretty good.
Or wrap a couple wraps of masking tape around the pencil.
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Oh, that's a good idea!
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Well another day of tillering over.
I don't have any pictures to post. All I can say is that the two limbs seem to be getting closer toghter in stiffness but the gizmo is still picking up stiff spots, most of them in the same places. U. Using a rasp first to rasp off all of the pencil marks and then scraping over the spot to get out all the rasping marks or to even out he bell as it appears that it was uneven in some spots, so I hope the paint scraper gets rid of these.
My question is that so far I have spent several hours tillering at this one spot (12" on the long string) and does that seem natural? I checked the draw weight at the 12 inches and it's dropped from 25 lbs to 20 lbs. I'm afraid that in my attempt to get rid of the stiff spots, I'm creating other imperfections or I'm not scraping enough off. Should I start using sharpie to make stiff spots then to make sure I scrape enough off?
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Well I did some more tillering and was finally able to move up a notch.
I noticed that if I focused on using only a scraper instead of using a rasp then scraper, I was able to avoid getting unevenness. I marked the stiff spots at 13" but didn't work on it yet, how does it look so far?
I feel like it looks a little stiff near the fades but this is my first time tillering so maybe I'm wrong. What do you guys think?
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Looking good, once u have it bending some more the tiller will show better
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Do you think it's time to do the short string? I wasn't able to tie the string so that it is perfectly taut so my tillering process is different form yours but the limbs seem to be bending about 3 or 4 inches. After I do my set of scrapes and check it's evenness, I can go to short string I just want to know how one tells when it's time to. In your example you did it quite early on so maybe I don't need to be doing long string as long as I thought I would need to.
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Get it bending a few more and then go to around a 3" brace
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I did some more tillering today. I only have about an hour a day to do it but i still am making good progress. I retied the string so that it doesn't have so much slack. This means that it stretches more so I had to see where it bent at 25 lbs which was apparently 13" (or 14 " of draw")
I'm noticing that the right limb is slightly stiffer but it is starting to get more even.
I'm attaching a photo. If anything looks bad please say
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Oh my, posted the wrong photo, >:(
Here's what I got to today.
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Oh forgot to ask but I've been noticing a gap between the handle riser and the bow. It's been there since I first cut it out but I cannot tell if it's growing. How can I prevent the handle from being popped off?
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Is it a gap, or a glue line?
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It definitely lookalike a gap as it's in the fades area only.
I'll attach a picture. I'm going to be wrapping the handle in leather for a grip so maybe it won't be a problem.
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Another photo
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It's likely not problem. That small gap likely doesn't extend far in and, after shaping handle, will be gone. For peace of mind, put some super glue in there. Good luck.
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Well. I did some more tillering. I was able to get up to #26 at 14" ( so 15" draw length). I've attached pictures so if anything looks wrong please tell. I don't see any hinges and it looks fine so far.
I do have a question. Before I went up to 14" I was using my gizmo and I thought I heard it touch the limb but thine I looked at my limb, no pencil marks where there? Does that mean it was slightly stiff but just not stiff enough for the pencil to make a noticeable mark?
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Here's photos at 13"
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And 14"
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More tillering today. I'm still at 14" but is is getting more even. I don't know if it's just me but does it look like there's a hinge in the left limb or is it just bending more than the other?
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It looks like the left limb is weaker to me.
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You really need to get a little lower with the pic, were looking down on it and that can change how it looks, straight on and close to eye level
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The tiller stick was leaning against the pole so I thought I had to go slightly above the bow to get a straight on picture.
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Well, more tillering today and I took a picture at a much more "even" level. Like I said, one limb is still defiantly stiffer than the other but it is getting better. If anything looks wrong, please say.
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Looks like it's starting to bend Merlin. Just have to keep taking wood that doesn't belong on the finished bow off and leave on the wood that has to stay on for a bow. Your headed in the right direction, carry on.
Bjrogg
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Get the bow on a low brace, about 4" then see what it looks like😉
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15 pages ...We may be working on a record.....
DBar
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Why then better keep,on going to make a record ;)
Besides I think I am already making a record on slowest bow maker at aprox. 8 or so months
Bubby, to string the bow can I just use the under the leg method org do I nee a bow stringer? I think I read in some places they say you should use a bow stringer at this gage while others say you can just string it at short brace.
Also, how do you make make string the right length for short brace? I assume you place the loop on one end and then bend the bow like your going to sting it and see just about where you would have to tie the timber hitch but I just want to be sure.
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Why then better keep,on going to make a record ;)
Besides I think I am already making a record on slowest bow maker at aprox. 8 or so months
Bubby, to string the bow can I just use the under the leg method org do I nee a bow stringer? I think I read in some places they say you should use a bow stringer at this gage while others say you can just string it at short brace.
Also, how do you make make string the right length for short brace? I assume you place the loop on one end and then bend the bow like your going to sting it and see just about where you would have to tie the timber hitch but I just want to be sure.
Hey I think I can help on this one......I make a long string out of a no stretch material with a loop on each end forget about the troublesome timber hitch...then I use my "string helper" to adjust the length I want , short string, long string, string at brace.....what ever length of bow you have, one tillering string and my string helper will work for them all....
DBar
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You know that string i sent you, put one loop in a nock and stretch the string tight if it is about three inches from the tip it is close to the right length. If it is farther from the tip twist it a few times counter clockwise to get a little length twist the other way to shorten it. I really don't recomend the step though method go to youtube and search for stringing a bow with push pull method something should come up
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Dbars little helper will help
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I've even shot arrows with the helper on the string with no problems... and I'm a push pull guy too....
DBar
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You'll get it Merlin, it's really looking pretty good so far. I meant what I said, your headed in the right direction just carry on. Once you get it on a short string it technically a bow I believe. Don't be to afraid, bad things can happen but so far your looking good. If they happen you examine them learn from them and carry on. It's just a piece of wood until you make it a bow. When you do that and shoot it, your gonna be so thrilled.
Bjrogg
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Bj it ain't a bow till it's shot in lol
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Marin if you go to youtube and subscribe to echo archery he demonstrates push pull and has some very good videos on primitive archery
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Dbar,
Is your sting helper one of those metal taps from a soda can?
What an ingenious idea! I might try it or just tie another timber hitch at th le end if my long tillering string.
Wait, Bubby, you were referring to the long string right? Sorry if I am mistaken.
Thanks guys,
I am going to try and even it out tommorw before switching to short string.
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Bj it ain't a bow till it's shot in lol
I agree Bubby that's just something I saw a feller on you tube say when he first got his stave to brace. He said that's when it changed from a stave to a bow.
Marlin your doing good. Just trying to reassure you. I agree with buddy. Check out some good video on braceing bow. The first time you string it can be a bit tricky. Whatever method you use it's very important that the stresses are spread evenly over the whole bow. Good luck moving forward. You are coming to the point where soon you will notice the wood bending more from your scrapping. I'm not trying to rush you just let you know so far so good. Carry on
Bjrogg
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how about this.....
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Same picture, your most recent one....
Ok, see how the left limb is bending just a BIT more than the right? If the left will be your upper limb, that is almost correct. Maybe just barely too much difference, but having a stiffer bottom limb is fine, or perfectly symmetrical tiller is fine.
NOW, this is in VERY rough terms, but do you see how I divided the limbs each into three sections? Inner limbs, mid-limbs, and tips. The front profile of your bow calls for "elliptical" tiller. Inner limbs should be bending some, mid-limbs bending MORE, and then tips going back to bending LESS, even stiff in the last few inches. In reality we could divide the limb into five sections (or even seven) and from the handle out it would be something like ; #1 barely bending, #2 bending barely more, #3 barely more than that but obviously more than #1, #4 about the same, #5 going back to barely bending and even less at the very tip.
Anyway, that's basically what you have got going right now, so pretty good. I would say your inner limbs are SLIGHTLY stiff. And, I would say you could make a full pass of crayon, rasp, and scrape on the RIGHT limb, maybe two passes, to catch it up to the left limb. Overall, you have got it bending appropriate amounts in the right places.
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Like this.....
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So, what is it pulling right now to get it to that peg with the long string? I would vote that it's time to get a real string on it, even if you brace it low, like 3-4" and find out what it is really pulling in the first couple inches. That by itself might also get that inner limb area bending a tad more.
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Last i checked it was pulling aprox. 26 lbs at 14 inches draw.
I just need to even it out because my tillering gizmo marked some stiff spots and then I'll place I'll do low brace.
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Dang Springbuck, that's a great diagram! very helpful too!
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What is your target weight? And, that is 14" of draw with the long string, correct?
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My target weight is 45 lbs at 27 inches of draw and yes that's with long string.
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Dbar,
Is your sting helper one of those metal taps from a soda can?
What an ingenious idea! I might try it or just tie another timber hitch at th le end if my long tillering string.
Wait, Bubby, you were referring to the long string right? Sorry if I am mistaken.
Thanks guys,
I am going to try and even it out tommorw before switching to short string.
Marin....No it is a 1/8" thk X 1/2" wide aluminum flat bar, that I cut two 3/8" dia. holes in about 5/8" apart if I remember right. I can take all the credit Mr. Del the Cat gave me the idea the year he attended the Classic.
DBar
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Marin....No it is a 1/8" thk X 1/2" wide aluminum flat bar, that I cut two 3/8" dia. holes in about 5/8" apart if I remember right. I can take all the credit Mr. Del the Cat gave me the idea the year he attended the Classic.
DBar
And what a great idea it is!
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The front profile of your bow calls for "elliptical" tiller.
Wait, it's not a pyramid bow?
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It is a pyramid bow.
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Then, as far as I know, the front profile of your bow would call for a circular tiller, no? and a gizmo should make it rather easy, from what I've read..
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Like i said get it to about a 4" brace and we will look at it , your fades are a little stiff right now but that is where i like to work back into so it doesn't end up with too much bend there. As far as profile don't worry about that we will get you there, the book may say circular tiller but it also says even taper gives automatic perfect tiller wich in my experiance isn't exactly correct
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YES! Then LOON is correct, if it is a pyramid, bow, then you do want circular tiller, sorry. I swear I remembered it having parallel sides more than half way out.
Maybe post a front profile picture if you get a chance.... and disregard my post about "sections". Sorry. EVEN CURVE all along, and use the gizmo every chance you get in that case.
I was remembering this pic and it looked like parallel sides.
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But, clearly it is a pyramid bow.....
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I did some more tillering today. I did two passes with a rasp on the stiff limb and some scraping. I now thin it's ready to brace. The gizmo is showing they are roughly even though I thought I heard it touch the limb. I guess it wasn't stiff enough because It didn't leave a mark.
The reason it's got an elliptical tiller is probably because the gizmo doesn't reach up to wihin 3 inches of te fades, so I haven't been working on the inner limb. I scraped that area today though but it's not bending enough for one to tell if there's a difference.
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Here's my progress. Like I said the gizmo isn't picking up spots.
Im going to brace it tonight
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That's why i said the fades were stiff but better to work that area last than get too much bend there right off the bat😉
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Well just string it.
I'm attaching photos.
I consulted youtube and "The Bent Stick" to learn about he push pull method. I used one that is more similar to the one used in TBS as described by Comostock by planning the lower limb on the outside of my left foot and pulling the handle with my right hand and pushing the upper limb with my left. I'm am curious though, I kind of used my leg to help push the center portion of the bow. Is that dangerous for the bow?
Well here's some photos
I just attached a photo of the nock just to make sure it looks right as something looked not exactly right with the string in it, almost as if it wasn't deep enough but maybe I'm be I too cautious.
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I tried practicing stringing the bow last night and I've noticed it is very hard for me to do. I found it easiest to push the handle with my left, push the upper limb with my right, and place the lower limb agais to outside of my left foot. When I try pushing the handle with my right and pulling the upper limb with my left, as TBS describes, I can't seem to do it. Even worse is when I tired to do it, the bow limb slipped out of my hand and slapped me on my head. Now maybe I'm just much more weaker than I thought but should the bow still be this hard to string at this point?
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As long as you put even pressure on the limbs whatever works, and as you aren't clost to full draw it will be a little hard to string at first, can we get a braced pic with nothing behind the bow?
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Yeah, limbs at this point are bit stiff for me also. Keep the eyes out of the way of wayward limbs!
I use a bow stringer until later in tillering process.
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Google "bow stringing push pull" This is the first one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDJPgUN5XqE.
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Thanks dc but I already watched that one. I tried using this form of the push pull method but right now my bow is very stiff so it's harder to do it this way.
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Well another day of tillering, now with short string.
I first used my scale to determine where my bow was at 25 lbs and I found it to still be at 14". Then I used my tool to mark stiff spots but I also worked at shaving down the spot closest to the fades that was not marked with the gizmo. I soon found that I was beginning to get a circular tiller and when I fi dined for the day, one of limbs had a circular tiller.
I braced it at about a 3-4" brace (I measured from handle to string. That's the correct way right ?) I've attached photos of before today's tillering braced and after today's tillering brace.
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Here's the picture of it braced after today's tillering.
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You got a nice braced profile going there Marlin. Before you know it you'll be shooting that one.
Bjrogg
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You need to get the limb on the left caught up with the right, right is looking pretty good but if you let it get too far ahead of the other you will have problems evening them up. Always try to keep the tiller even as you go
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I noticed the limbs were not. Notching but I thoght the left limb was better than the right. The left limb has the more round tiller while the right still is quite stiff near the handle. Am I looking at it wrong the way?
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When tillering it is always a good idea to only work on the stiffest limb until it bends as much as the weaker limb. The bend in the weak limb usually looks different once the strong limb catches up.
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I should maybe just let Bubby give you the tillering advice but here's mine for what it's worth. I like the bend on the right limb and it looks weaker than the left to me. Your pretty close. I'd try to get that left bending the same as the right is. Bubby has way more experience than I do though understand if you'd like to wait for his opinion. Be careful out of the fades. Most wait for the last couple inches of draw length to get them bending right and it can be really easy to take to much and very bad spot to do it.
Bjrogg
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Bj that is pretty much what i said your eye is just fine, it is hard to see proper tiller just from the braced pic and once he gets the limbs matched up we need a pic of it drawn to your projected draw weight
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Thanks.
So once I get it bending evenly at this level, I should pull it to 45 lbs and check the tiller at this point?
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Exercise it when you remove wood and check the tiller at 15-18-20", i think you said you were under 30#@14" so say it is at 30#@14"you should be close to 45#@21" so you are safe drawing that far and not going over weight as long as the tiller is good
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.. . . . . as long as the tiller is good
quoting just for emphasis. Good luck!
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I was just thinking about this last night and wanted verification: when you're referring to the left limb being to stiff, are you talking about the left limb in the tiller stick or the braced photo? I had flipped the bow around so that the side with the timber hitch (the limb that I thought was stiffer) was on the other side. This might be why I am a little confused why the left limb appears stiff. I placed the timber hitch on the limb that was stiffer.
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Marin I believe the one I was looking at was the braced picture. Can't really tiller a bow just from a braced picture but that was what I was seeing and I believe it was a board bow so it should have pretty even bend. Can't really speak for Bubby.
Bjrogg
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I should probably clarify: I was confused why everyone was saying the left limb was stiffer when I thought the right limb appeared stiffer when I pulled it on the tiller stick. I was wondering guys were referring to the left limb of the braces photo or of the photo of the bow pulled?
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Always put the lower limb(or at least the same limb) on the left when posting photos. You avoid a lot of confusion that way.
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Marin I think your eye is telling you what you need to do. your not that far off so far. You knew which limb needed to be reduced. Keep posting those pictures but you are going the right direction. After you build a bow or two I think you'll be able to trust your eyes. Cant wait to see you shoot that one
bjrogg
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DC, what do you mean by lower limb?
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Marin , DC is saying lower limb because usually we put a slightly stiffer limb down as the bottom or lower limb. Because of how bow is held lower limb gets slightly more stress and will bend a little more.
Bjrogg
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I was also referencing the braced photo
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Ah, that explains my confusion.
Sorry. I won't flip around the bow for photos.
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Well more tillering today. I'm starting to use my eyes more when tillering and then use the gizmo to verify what I see. So far the bend in both limbs seems to be equal and I just need to make it less stiff around the fades.
Anybody think otherwise?
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Probably also mention it's getting much easier to string which is another sign that the stiff limb is definitely getting less stiff.
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That's normal Marin.The wood is stretching and compressing.Can't help but peek at your build here.The wood is bowing to the string as they say.Looks very good.I'm staying away from this build-a-long because I believe too many chefs ruin the broth and you are seeing things correctly too.Any way your in good hands.Even though this build seems to take quite some time it's better that way then too quick.It should go a little faster for you now.
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Marin it's a little hard to see real good by that snow fence would be easier with just a solid background but from what I can see it looks pretty nice bend. It's to the point where just a few scraps will be noticeable. Make sure you exercise it before you check it's bend and remove more. How far are you on draw now? And you probably said some where but I didn't catch it what is your target draw length?
Bjrogg
By the way I completely agree with Ed. Sometimes to many cooks in the kitchen. If I'm confusing you please tell me. Bubby has more experience than I do and I've never made a board bow either. Your doing good now is definitely not the time to rush. Now is when you have to keep going from tree to couple scrapes back to tree etc. etc.
Bjrogg
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Thanks Bjrogg and Beadman,
Sorry about the snow fence. I actually thought I might help determine the degree of bend on both sides but I'll just take photos on the other side of the deck.
My target draw length is 28". It's at 14" of draw at a brace height of about 4" (measured from belly side of handle to string). Last I checked it was at 27 lbs at this level but this has probably reduced.
I am exercising it before I stretch. I've been making sure to do that since the beginning. I am trying not to go too fast and I am counting my scraper strokes. I do about 3 or 4 passes on a stiff area or just to where the pencil marks start disappearing.
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Bubby,
I just wanted to see how long the final string was compared to the tillering string was so I placed the final string in one nock and stretched to the other. I then found that the final string is actually longer than the short brace string. It stretches from nock to nock very easily. Am I supposed to twist the string to make it shorter? It wouldn't make it much shorter but already the string is too long.
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Yeah just twist it to shorten it, I made it to the length that you said but i probably didn't twist it enoughget it about 2" shorter than the nocks and brace it, it won't stretch like that tiller string. Then just keep twisting till you get to a 6" brace it looks ready for that😉 looking good!!
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Thanks bubby
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If we have too I'll make another string😉
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Your 1 st bow is looking better then 90% of the first bows made ,your lucky you have good mentors , taking your time is key to making a good bow , can't wait to see it flinging arrows !
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Thanks stick bender,
I'm being careful not to screw up and am trying to learn as much as I can from all of you. Thanks again for the help
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More tillering today. I focused more on getting the inner limbs less stiff before I move on. It appears that the left limb still has a very stiff inner limb so I will work on that some more, here's a photo of today's progress.
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Did some more tillering. Got it evened out and when up to 15" and then 18". At 18", it was about 30 lbs. the tiller looks pretty good though is it just me or are the inner limbs too stiff?
I do have a question about thing he timber hitch. It seems that whenever I go to restring the bow, the timber hitch must have loosened up so I have to constantly retie it, and that takes time cause I have to retie it to the same exact length which I never can get, so I basically tiller using a different brace height every time, which I think is bad. Do you guys have tricks when tying timber hitches to ensure the right length? I would make one of those Danzn Bear string adjustment things but I don't have metal working tools.
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Probably should,mention the top photo is 18" and the bottom 15".
And I meant to say "tying the timber hitch". Sorry
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I leave mine strung while i work on it. What draw weight are you going for, right now you are looking at 60 lbs at 28"
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I'm going for 45 lbs. I'm going g to reduce it once I get to 45 lbs.
I also decided that I'm going to trap the belly. I realize that is probably for the better and it won't take that long.
And you can leave it string while you work on it? Won't that cause it to set though? And do you ever find your self having to retie the knot as it gets looser and the brace height shrinks?
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Because red oak is bit weak in compression, I've trapped the back . . . but not the belly.
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Well, you are making progress! :D I won't offer much advice since you are already being coached by some of the best. You are approaching twenty inches of draw length, so in my opinion, it is time to think toward how you will check your tiller as you approach the final draw length. I never leave a bow drawn with the string hung on a peg long enough to change hands and pick up the camera and take a photo. It is okay to do that when the bow is drawn up to twenty inches or so. After twenty inches, I shy away from that practice. I believe it can over strain a self bow's belly and induce too much set. I go to a pulley on the floor and a rope hooked to the bowstring. If you have someone else to photograph the bow for your tillering critiques, and never draw the bow back for more than a couple of seconds, it can add life to your bow. I like a flat white background with some horizontal lines draw on it to help gauge how my limbs are bending. Keep reducing weight until you hit your target 45lbs at 27" of draw. Then with your final sanding before finishing it will come in just right. :) or it will bust all to heck and you can grab another piece of wood and start over... ;D
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Yeah like knoll said if you trap it trap the back, that will drop the weight as well. I don't think the timber hitch is slipping if it is tied right, but as you scrape wood the brace hight will get lower. Try for 20lbs at 20" that should set you up for 45# figuing 3lbs an inch. Now like howatd said about the tree, once the tiller is good at 20" what i do is start shooting it at short draw, say 25 arrows at 20" then i just gradually work it out to full draw, have someone take a pic about 24" with an arrow nocked and put a pc of tape on the string so you nock it in the correct spot , say the thickness of the arrow aboce center, you got this about wrapped up, round up the handle some before you shoot it so you dont shoot the feathers off
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Looking Good (SH)
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Your getting to the fun part Marin, good luck I'm just gonna let Bubby give you advice now. Can't wait to see you shooting that bow. Bet your gonna have a big chezzie grin in that full draw picture.
Bjrogg
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sorry, I meant trapped the back ;D
Still new at this.
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So once I got it bending evenly at 20 lbs at 20" I can just gradually shoot it at different draw lengths? I don't have to continue using the tree (in theory)?
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That is how i do it, i have found that on a straight forward stave with little character, that the tiller rarely changes past this point and especially with a board, but like i said have someone take a pic when you get to 24-25" just to be safe
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Oh and since I'm trapping the back, shouldn't I be targeting for 25 lbs at 20" and then trap the back before shooting?
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Trap the back first
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And target for a higher weight?
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Trap the back, xheck the weight, get it to the weight you want, then procede😉
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I know I asked this brides but before I trap I just need to verify, so I am sanding off a chamfer with a constant width of 1/4" and angle of 45 degrees from tip to tip?
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I know I asked this brides but before I trap I just need to verify, so I am sanding off a chamfer with a constant width of 1/4" and angle of 45 degrees from tip to tip?
Yeah basically, i kind of let my chamfer fade out before it gets to the tips, you also want to round off the edges of the chamfer
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More tillering.
I even red it out and got it up to 19" where it is 30#. I'm going to probably keep it at 30# when at 20"before trapping the back and then I will reduce the weight and start shooting! (SH)
Attached a picture of the tiller for the day.
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Looking good !!
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With a trapped back, can I attempt a higher draw weight? I heard you can't do over 50# with a board bow but could a trapped back allow me to go higher?
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There is no weight limit on a board bow, it all depends on the board and the tiller. It also doesn't have anything much to do with draw weight. If you are 30#@20" you will end up around 54#
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Laid out the belly taper too.
Does this look about right? I had it gradually fade out before it hit the nocks.
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I haven't ever layed out the trapped BACK you did mean BACK and not belly right😉, i just eyeball it when i trap a back, you dont trap the handle just start at the fades
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The total area that is flat is a 1/4" not a a 1/4" in and down that will give you a 1/2" flat, just make the flat area 1/4", then round the corners off
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Oh, so just the trapped area is 1/4". Darn it, can't believe i forgot the Pythagorean theorem :o
I'll erase the lines. Didn't realize most people eyeball it.
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Okay I must have had a huge brain fart last night cause I don't know why I said belly taper
But yes I mean trapping the back and those sanding lines are on the back of the bow.
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Okay got to 20" today. I'm attaching photos, the first one is at 19" and the second at 20". It's still about 30# so I'm going to trap the back tomorrow before adjusting the weight.
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I got the back trapped and evened out the bow at 20" of draw. I still need to reduce weight as when I placed the bow on the stick and pulled, the bathroom scale still measured around 30 pounds at 20"' so I uses trapping doesn't reduce weight?
I've attached pics of today's work.
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Maybe its just the picture, but to me it looks more like it has well rounded corners than trapped. Trapping should reduce weight because you have less area under tension which reduces resistance to bending. I have only ever trapped two bows. On both I trapped one fourth of the width from each edge in towards the middle. This reduces the outer surface area of the back by one half. I don't know if thats the proper way to do it but it worked for me.
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I definitely made a chamfer that was 1/4" wide. Sorry about the bad pic
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Trapped back or not, I shy away from any sharp angles. I sand all angles off until they are somewhat rounded off. I believe it cuts down on the chances that a bow will pop a splinter. ;)
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both Fades look stiff to me
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I guess I could shave the fades down. The gizmo isn't telling me they're stiff but it can't mark in that area.
And I made sure to round over all the sharp edges .
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Yes paul he needs to work back into them just a bit
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Definitely the right one. Getting them to open up will dramatically help reduce set. Would not pull it anymore until corrected. Not being critical just honest. Otherwise looking great!
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What do you mean by "work back into them"? I assume you mean shaving down the fades but I just wanted to ask just in case.
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Scrape from the fades out in the stiff areas, the rt is stiffer than the left
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You can hold up a cd or a dvd infront of the pic until the perspective is right and you will see where the bow needs to bend, sometimes i use the bill of my hat
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Well more tillering today. The bow is now down to 27# at 20" and I got the fades to bend more. The tillering gizmo indicates that both limbs are bending equally now but I am still trying to determine if the fades are still too stiff. At first glance, they look quite stiff, but when I get closer to mark what I think is a stiff area, they appear to be bending fine. Anyone think the fades are too stiff?
Also, I've been noticing my bow has been taking some set. I have been leaving it at 20" (or at the other levels below 20" before I got to this point) for a while, about a minute at the most, to take a picture or run the gizmo under the limb. Is that bad for the bow?
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Can I go ahead with reducing the weight? Like I said, I thought the tiller looks fine but I just want to make sure before.
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Looks good
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You got her looking pretty good Marin. I personally would leave the fades alone now except maybe sanding for finish. They look good to me now and you don't want to over do them. I think your eye is guiding you pretty good. I'm thinking you got a bunch of guys here waiting for a report on that first shot.
Bjrogg
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Thanks guys,
I'm going to reduce the weight next chance I get. Unfortunately today it is raining (R
I'm hoping there is going to be a break in the storm that will allow me to work
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Well the storm ended so I was able to work some more to reduce weight.
When I finished for today it was at 24# at 20". I also used the gizmo and it showed that one part was getting stiffer than the other, so I need to work on that.
Here's a pic I took today. Sorry for the poor quality
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45 @ 28 may be getting tough to achieve. Need to start picking up draw weight. Good luck!
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Got it to 22.5 lbs at 20" today. No pictures.
Knoll, What do you mean it will be tough to achieve? I'm going down to 20 lbs at 20" of draw as bubby said that should get me to my target draw weight of 45 lbs.
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I think it is time to start shooting it in some, round everything up, shape the handle roughly, and start stort draw shooting it and slowly work your way up close to full draw. Periodically check the tiller in a mirror or a glass door and checking how the limbs look at brace.
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Have you decided on a plan to get from where ya are to where ya want to be?
?? @ 22"
?? @ 24"
?? @ 26
45 @ 28
If so, then good and just need to achieve plan.
(-P
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Okay, I'll do that hopefully tomorrow. There's a small stiff spot my gizmo detected that I need to get out first.
Sorry knoll, I haven't developed a plan like that. I was just going to follow bubby's advice of getting it down in weight now and then working up to 28"
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I Agree with Bubby. I'd start shooting at a shorter draw seeing how it feels and working slowly up to almost full draw. Sanding depending on how many tool marks you have will usually take a couple lbs off too. Time to see what she'll do. Can't wait to see that big chezzy grin.😁
Bjrogg
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Yep. Time to see if that stick wants to be a bow!
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Brace height is measured from the handle to the the string right?
I'm bracing mine at 6" which I assume is proper.
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Oh and I did more tillering today. I checked the weight and it's still at 22.5 - 23lbs at 20". The tiller looks pretty good and I checked with the gizmo. I shot an arrow out of it but unfortunately it was too dark to get a good picture.
I did get a picture of the final tiller (hopefully)
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Well I shot it today about 30 times at 20". I measured 20" on the arrow. I strung it at a 6" brace. It shoots pretty good so far (though I am a beginner bowyer so what do I know ;))
I've attached a picture. Please excuse my subpar archery posture and my dorky appearance, :)
It was getting late so the photo may be too dark. If so, I'll get one tommorow earlier.
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Hubby's probably going to ask this so I should probably mention now: the arrows are blunted with some plumbers tape (it's removable) as a precaution as my backyard is quite small.
That would effect the flight of the arrow, so I will only be able to get an accurate assessment of arrow flight when I take it to the range, or shoot it secretly at night ;)
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Probably should explain the glove too. The bow doesn't have an arrow rest yet so it kind of hurts when the fletching goes off my hand. I'm going to add a floppy one at the end.
Do you guys wear a glove when shooting a bow with no arrow rest?
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A bit too dark for these old eyes> Look forward to another pic in daylight. (-P
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Sorry, :(
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Prob lay should ask this, but when I move up to 21" to shoot, do I still exercise the limbs or is the act of shooting the bow exercising?
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Marin great to see you shooting her in. I always exercise the limbs a bit when I first sting my bows to "warm them up" as said picture is a bit dark but it looks to me as though you have you arrow notched quite low. It appears to be throwing your tiller off. I would try moving the arrow up the string a bit.
Shooting off the hand it's nice to have stripped fletching with wrapped quills front and back. Fletching that way I don't even feel arrow at all. Good work young man on sticking with that one, hopefully many more to come.
Bjrogg
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The problem is the arrow is nocked to low, those feathers are wrapped on the fore end bj. You want the arrow noced a little above 90 deg from the string Sean find that spot and wrap a pc of tape on the string till you find the right spot, then tie some string on and add a drop of super glue
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You should be able to find a video on you tube to help with the nock point
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Nocking the arrow higher will stop it from hitting your hand too. An 1/8" height change will make the difference between hurting and not even noticing it go by.
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This was useful to me when first tying on own nock points.
https: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAydUrB_eKA
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For nock points, I just do a surgical knot of sorts, then serve away from where the arrow would be.
Could also tie a double or even quadruple constrictor knot, but those are very hard to remove. I've ruined a few strings trying to cut off nock points..
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Well, I made my nock point. I did it about half an inch above the center (Just like in the video knoll shared). I haven't glued it down yet but before I do, does it look about right.
Sorry if the second photo is too blurry.
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Shoot it and see it it still hits your hand
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It's hard to see in your picture, but if you are nocking arrow onto the nock point, ya probably don't want to do that.
Use nock point to "bump" your arrow's nock against. So arrow is either immediately above or below nock point.
Experimenting will tell ya if arrow prefers to be above/below nock point. Since ya tied it on 1/2" above center, arrow will likely want to be below nock point.
Carry on.
(SH)
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What Knoll said. You don't put arrow ON nock point, but below it if you have one nock point, or if you have two, between them.
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What Bubby and Knoll said, also I always shape my handle so I put my hand in the same place to.
Bjrogg
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Silly me >:(
Should I make the nock point right at the center and not above it? And should I glue it down?
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Id wait to glue it in place until you've shot it a bit in different places and found where shoots best. Then glue er down.
Kyle
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Id wait to glue it in place until you've shot it a bit in different places and found where shoots best. Then glue er down.
Kyle
What Kyle says. It probably is pretty close now. Remember arrow rest probably doesn't pass through center either, usually a inch or so higher than center. I'd shoot it and see where it feels best.
Bjrogg
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Well I was able to get out today and shoot my bow. I pulled it to 21 inches of draw but I realized last week that as my tiller stick was measuring from he top of the stick (rather than from the back of he bow) that I have already pulled to is point on the tiller stick (20" on the tiller stick)
Anyways, I can't seem to find anything wrong with the tiller so far. I don't know if it's just me but does the top limb look stiffer than the bottom?
And yes, my arrow is now rather high. I might adjust my nock point to make it lower but so far it's great. I could not even feel the arrow go over my hand. Who knew how much of a difference a couple of inches makes.
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Just keep nocking it lower and lower, maybe 1/4" at a time. When it scrapes your finger back up a hair. Don't put too much stock in pictures as far as tiller is concerned. Use it but check against something else like a mirror. If you look back at all the full draw photo here you will find a good percentage look like the bottom limb is bending too much. Something about some cameras and such truck. Nocking it lower may change the bend too.
But you got her done, good job :D
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Great to see you shooting her Marin, better get started on another one soon so it's done before you wear this one out. Like D.C. said.
Bjrogg
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Congrats Marin good job I agree with DC dont relie on the pics there is always lens distortion paticularly on phone cameras pulled my hair out many times tell I figured it out , light angle can really throw it off , whats next ?
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I've been looking at your picture and I think the fence lines behind the bottom limb are also messing with our eyes. Try to find a solid color background.
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I'll keep shooting it in then. Don't worry, I will start on that osage stave after I finish this bow. :-M
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Your goal will be to finish it in less than ten months ;D ;D ;D
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I'll keep shooting it in then. Don't worry, I will start on that osage stave after I finish this bow. :-M
That's great Marin. I think you learned a lot and gained some confidence on this one. Have fun shooting it. That's a pretty done good first board bow. I'm betting we'll see more from you.
Bjrogg
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Wait, it's not finished yet. Still need to shoot it in, sand it down and wrap the handle.
Do any of you guys add a coat of clear sealent? Or linseed oil? Is it needed?
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You want to seal it with something. I use tung oil. Some use Tru-oil. Spray on poly. You want to keep the moisture away as much as you can.
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Linseed is enough if you don't expect it to touch water.. could try danish oil, shellac from button lac, too.
Or linseed to give it a nice color and pop the grain, then clear coat.
Don't really need to thin the linseed oil, but mineral spirits should work, dunno if with BLO.. to make it easier to apply.
I just rub pure uncut tung oil with my bare fingers, dunno if that's bad ...
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This is what I do:
Sand the tool marks out.
Finish sand up to at least 220 grit.
Use 0000 fine steel wool
Wipe with dry cloth to remove sanding dust.
Wipe again, but this time using tack cloth. Will get sanding dust ya can't see.
Apply 3 coats boiled linseed oil or tung oil or teak oil or danish oil with light rubbing of 0000 steel wool in between each coat.
Apply 3 coats Rub On Poly with light rubbing of 0000 steel wool in between each coat.
Optional ... couple coats furniture wax.
While above does not yield the fantastic finishing results you will see here on PA, result suits me. YRMD.
Good luck!
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I have an old can of floor wax I use. How many of you are old enough to remember floor wax? ;D ;D ;D
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Osage Outlaw has been using spray on rim sealer he got at a parts house like o'reilys or kragens
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Got up to 25" of draw today. Unfortunately no pics as it got too dark.
It seems to be shooting good but as I'm shooting in my backyard, I am only shooting down into a bush that catches the arrow. I checked the weight at 25" and its 30# which I hope is good.
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Nice! Close
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Got to 28" today. Now it's a bow! The tiller looks good to me
I checked the weight and it's 38 # at 28" (my bathroom scale could be wrong) >:(
I'll have to be more careful with my next bow .
Now all I have to do is make this bow presentable
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Good work Marin :BB :OK
Bjrogg
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That's looks pretty good man. Nice job on your first. Looks way better than my first bow looked! Cheers- Brendan
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Congrats Marin.You've got a shooter.It'll be fun dressing her up.It can be the fun part.Many options out there or decisions to make if you want.It's not a mandatory thing just a personal preference thing.It's your bow.I'd take a look around at different bows on bows of the month thread once. (SH)
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I do have a couple of questions. First the lower limb seems to be taking on more set than the top. Why could that be?
Also, how can I better plan to make weight? I was told that for every inch in draw length is 3 lbs in draw weight. How come that did not work for this bow (it was 24# at 21" but 38 # at 28")?
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I do have a couple of questions. First the lower limb seems to be taking on more set than the top. Why could that be?
Also, how can I better plan to make weight? I was told that for every inch in draw length is 3 lbs in draw weight. How come that did not work for this bow (it was 24# at 21" but 38 # at 28")?
If you look at your full draw pic you can see that your nocking your arrow WAY too high. This makes your bottom limb bend more than the top which is why bottom is taking more set. During tillering if you always pull to desired draw weight (exept if you see a obvious problem before reaching that weight) you wont come in light.
Very nice for your first bow. :OK
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I'm glad someone pointed that out turtle.I should of last post.The reason is you removed too much material to get your 45# bow.Your bow should of read 25# @ 20" draw to get that.Don't know if you put the bow into a positive tiller either.That's a slightly wider gap between the string and limb on your top limb compared to your bottom limb.Anywhere from 1/16" to 3/16" using a tape measure around 6" out from the fades.
As a general rule a 50# bow gains poundage around 2.5 pounds per inch.Not hard to determine that.6" of brace/Draw is 22" to 28".Divide 22" into 50#.Next time when you get a straight limbed bow to brace.Use a poundage tester on your tillering tree.That shows the weight gain every inch way before coming to full draw yet.This measuring will get you in the ball park.Bear in mind longer bows will not have as much gain or more even towards the end few inches as a shorter bow will.That's because the string angle will be higher on the shorter[under 62"] bow.These things you will learn by making more bows.
You could of done that too on your bathroom scale if you would of been checking.It's faster and easier with a poundage tester on your tilleing string on the tillering tree.
I suggest you get the TBB 1 to help yourself out tillering and the language used for bow making.That will help you a lot.
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Congrats, young man!
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Ed i told him 3# an inch as that has been what i seem to get, the arrow nocked way to high causes more stress on the bottom limb Sean and that is the main reason for the extra set. Great job on your first bow and have fun making many more and remember its all about the journey , not the destination enjoy the ride
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OK Bub.Sorry I may have been rough explaining things.
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Thanks ,
I'll nock the arrow lower.
Oops about the weight.
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Ed,
I do have TBB vol 1 and I have read that chapter. I was going to try doing that method (pulling to weight and then adjusting the draw length) but I decided to try what others were suggesting.
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38# is a great target weight. You can comfortably work on your form while you are making your next bow. Not many get a good shooter on their first try.
PS lower your nock point ;D ;D ;D Like about two inches I'd say ;D ;D ;D
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Don't worry about the weight I just re tillered a bow that ended up at 39 lbs and it's a blast to shoot with out breaking a sweat , light bows are fun & easy to work on form with congrats looking foward to you osage build !
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Well I sanded the handle. I'mdoing the type Bubby did for his board bow as it looks the most comfortable. I might rasp it a little more but how does it look so far?
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No problem Ed just explaining where he got his info😉the most important thing with the grio is that it is comfy to you, its looking good so far
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Awesome bow (SH) great to have as a first too
Yeah, the nock point should be high enough that the fletchings don't cut your hand or slam into it, but low enough that it doesn't strain the tiller? and doesn't get the arrow out of tune up/down too much.
The best nock point for clean flight and not straining the bow may still cut the hand if not wearing gloves, though?..
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No problem either Bub.Just relating what my experiences and info is here too.
Marin...You've got 1 bow under your belt thanks to Bub.Many first time bows come in under weight.Even some bows later do too.Does'nt mean it's a failure.A broke unfixable bow does.If you get a chance to go to a bow making gathering it's a lot of fun.Good luck on your next one.
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Thanks Beadman,
Where are there any bow making gathering btw?
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Well, I sanded the tips and quickly sanded the entire thing with 220 sandpaper. It's as smooth as a river rock. I decided to do the tips like bubby's board Bow because I thought it looked practical and just cool.
I haven't sealed anything in a while so let's see how this turns out.
Do you guys lay your bows down when you seal them or do you hang them up somehow?
Also was it fine that I sanded the back a little?
Finally, the leather I have for the handle (thanks bubby) is just slightly small in length so that it cannot fully wrap around the handle. Is there a way I can somehow still sew or lash the leather together to make the handle?
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How big waa the leather, it is usually stretchy one way or the other, find out wich way it stretches and see if it will fit
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It shows that on the thread Primitive Shots and Events.One may be in your area possibly,or maybe another bowyer who's made a number of bows is in your area too.
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About finishing, this is what I plan on doing
Sand the bow once more with 220 grit, wipe it with a wet cloth, apply several coats of tung oil.
How many coats should I apply? And do I need to hang up the bow while I finish it or can it lie down (which will prevent the handle area from getting tung oil).
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Just wip it with a tack cloth, if you wet it you will have to sand it again as it will raise the grain. Use at least 4 coats of tung oil very thin coats, i lean it up agains the house so just the very tips touch anything
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i lean it up agains the house so just the very tips touch anything
So THAT's why you have all those dots across backside of your place!
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I usually tie a string around one tip to hang it from. Switch tips between coats.
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I'm in the process of sealing the bow with spray poly. Unfortunately, after spraying on the first layer the lid broke off the can >:( so now I have to run to the store for another can.
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I'm trying to think of alternatives to spray poly. Do you guys think that simple wood varnish (the kind they sell at craft stores) would work?
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Btw, Bubby could you clear out some of your inbox. I can't send you the message in trying to send you.
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Tung oil is my favorite
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Cleaned it out
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I guess I could use ting oil but, just out of curiosity, why doesn't craft store wood varnish work?
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I fished varnishing the bow. I was able to squirt some poly out of the bottle and then paint it on. I'm going to post a picture once I put leather on the handle, so you can see it in all it's glory.
Btw Bubby, do you usually sew handles on or do you glue the leather together?
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Well added a leather handle (please excuse e pore lashing job, the leather was a little small) so now I am officially done with this board bow.
It looks quite good but I weighted it one more time when I was done and found that my final sanding had lowered the draw weight to 32 lbs at 28" >:( I must have done too much.
Sorry guys for that disappointment. But other than that the bow looks quite good. I think the spray poly really adds a nice color to it.
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Here's a nice view of one of the limbs, I just love how the poly looks on it.
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I, and likely many others, are tickled that you are pleased with YOUR result. Congrats, sir, and hope to see many more bows from ya!
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The leather isn't too small, the handle is too big😲lol, congrats on your first real bow
The big handle is an inside joke right Mike😉
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Haha, my main bow right now is 31#@32" until I get form, arrow flight, and accuracy (consistency) figured out. You made an excellent learning bow.
Glad there is no shelf. They're for books.
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Good job! That's the first one done, the next will be even better. And like Loon said a light bow is great for getting your form right.
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Thanks Bubby btw the way for everything. This bow wouldn't have been finished without you.
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Pretty darn cool!!!! :BB
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Congrats Marin. I looks like a real shooter. Let's see a group. Again, congrats!!!!
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It's a shooter Marin.Congratulations.Tiller looks great.