Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: jandersson on June 14, 2016, 10:46:28 pm

Title: Crysals?
Post by: jandersson on June 14, 2016, 10:46:28 pm
I'm working on a black walnut bow and noticed something on the belly that got me concerned. I had straightened it with steam a week ago and started to exercise the bow on the tree. When I later looked at the belly it had this white pattern on most of the limb and on one spot when the light fell on it in a certain way there was a few darker lines. When I look at the darker lines from an other angle it just looks like the white pattern also if I run my nail over it I don't feel anything. Is this crysals?

Sorry, forgot the pics. Dark lines are in the kink on the left limb.

Thanks!

(http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h330/geek_usa80/IMG_0764.jpg) (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/geek_usa80/media/IMG_0764.jpg.html)
(http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h330/geek_usa80/IMG_0763.jpg) (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/geek_usa80/media/IMG_0763.jpg.html)
(http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h330/geek_usa80/IMG_04731.jpg) (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/geek_usa80/media/IMG_04731.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: bubby on June 14, 2016, 10:47:44 pm
Need pics,
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: jandersson on June 14, 2016, 10:54:52 pm
bubby,
I just saw your reply in the other thread. So you don't necessary have to feel a crysal?
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: bubby on June 14, 2016, 11:01:47 pm
Rub a little finish on it and let it dry, take a new pic
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: jandersson on June 14, 2016, 11:06:27 pm
Tung oil, poly urethane, does it matter?
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: bubby on June 14, 2016, 11:11:38 pm
Doesn't matter, it seems like when i do get chysals i see them once some finish is on
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: jandersson on June 14, 2016, 11:24:42 pm
Hmm.. there was stains on the wood after steaming that had similar edges, could it be that? I thought crysals would have more of a "break"?

(http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h330/geek_usa80/IMG_0779.jpg) (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/geek_usa80/media/IMG_0779.jpg.html)
(http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h330/geek_usa80/IMG_0778.jpg) (http://s1104.photobucket.com/user/geek_usa80/media/IMG_0778.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: Josh B on June 15, 2016, 01:39:41 am
I don't think those are chrysals.  Looks more like indentations in the grain that have been sanded out.  No guarantees on that though.  Josh
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: Del the cat on June 15, 2016, 02:30:20 am
You will know when you find a chrysal.
They are straight lines usually at an angle and you can feel the raised ridge with your fingernail.
The look like hairs across the belly.
There is a pic on this post of my blog... not a great pic, but click on it to see it full size.
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/shooting-in-hazel-bow.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/shooting-in-hazel-bow.html)
And here's a post with some real obvious ones (the bow was unseasoned and over drawn just for the heck of it >:D)
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/plenty-to-be-getting-on-with.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/plenty-to-be-getting-on-with.html)
Del
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: mikekeswick on June 15, 2016, 02:45:55 am
Also the really small ones will be easier to feel/see with the bow strung.
Anyway I don't think they are chrysalis - just a spot where the walnut has been 'squeezed' a bit. Stains will show up a chrysal like a lighthouse on a dark night.
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: bushboy on June 15, 2016, 07:08:29 am
Looks like small tension fractures to me.likely happened when you tried to straighten out the kink.i have an old bow with some and it doesn't seem to affect it.then again I don't shoot my bows all that much before starting another.
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: bubby on June 15, 2016, 08:21:08 am
Continue on with that bow i think u are alright
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: SLIMBOB on June 15, 2016, 08:29:48 am
Those to me look like the little tension cracks you get from heat bending when the wood has not plasticized enough.  Sometimes just a tiny spot that has stretched just to the point of rupture but not beyond.  Doesn't look as though you heat bent anything though.
I see that bushboy said the same.
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: BowEd on June 15, 2016, 08:29:59 am
Looking at it I'm leaning towards it not being a chrysal.Like said a finish or stain of some sort or even a quick wipe of laquer thinner on it would reveal it for sure.
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: jandersson on June 15, 2016, 08:45:57 am
That doesn't sound to bad. I'm still at just 14" and have 14" to go so I'll keep a close watch on that area and will be back if anything change.
Del: What you got there seems very different to what I have which gives me some hope!

Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: Lumberman on June 15, 2016, 10:10:35 am
Looks like a little bit of sinker stock to me which might be a little weaker than the wood around it but usually separates or "shakes" out during the drying process if it is weaker. My bet would be that you are in the clear at this point. Grading walnut today so if i see any in a fresh cut board I'll show ya what I am talking about
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: Lumberman on June 15, 2016, 12:42:16 pm
It holds more moisture while it's in the tree, a wet spot, but will dry down to the same MC as the surrounding wood
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: jandersson on June 15, 2016, 01:50:19 pm
Lumber man:
I might be miss understanding you, are you referring to the dark "island" in the middle of the limb? 
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: JoJoDapyro on June 15, 2016, 02:01:50 pm
Lumber man:
I might be miss understanding you, are you referring to the dark "island" in the middle of the limb?

He isn't looking at what you are meaning him to. He is referring to the dark grain.

He is talking about what is circled in red, you are talking about what is circled in yellow.
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: Lumberman on June 15, 2016, 04:19:47 pm
Ah! My bad, you are correct I am just throwing in some confusion.. Carry on, my work is done
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: bushboy on June 15, 2016, 05:27:19 pm
Tention fractures feel smooth.crysals feel like little tetonic plates that collided
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: darinputman on June 15, 2016, 10:07:22 pm
                   (http://i1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj633/darinputman/Mobile%20Uploads/800c4655-bdea-490d-a10a-6a5d7f8278dc.jpg) (http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/darinputman/media/Mobile%20Uploads/800c4655-bdea-490d-a10a-6a5d7f8278dc.jpg.html)    Here is a picture of a couple crysals on the belly of a hickory bow that I shot a lot even after they showed up, highlighted with a little ink.
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: Del the cat on June 16, 2016, 02:22:56 am
Nice pic... the ink really shows 'em up :).
Dunno why they are always at an angle... must be some weird mechanical thing going on as they form.
Del
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: BowEd on June 16, 2016, 11:06:28 am
You bet....Here's another that's definitely chrysalls.Not highlighted but did show up good enough to see anyway.That's on BL.Your's does not look like that to me.
(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad41/Beadman1/DSCN0945_zpsmroa0jl3.jpg) (http://s920.photobucket.com/user/Beadman1/media/DSCN0945_zpsmroa0jl3.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: jandersson on June 16, 2016, 12:55:56 pm
After putting finish on them as bubby said and the shape became clearer I think it is discoloration from the steaming. I have similar shaped discolorations on the back of the bow and the pics you guys show seem to display something different.
I feel good!
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: crooketarrow on June 16, 2016, 04:27:24 pm
 CRYSTALS come from drying out to much moisture with the steam. Then you didn't wait for the wood to rehydrate before you bent it. Over stressed your to dry limbs. Woods been crunched together caused the crystals.

  Bad tillering start of hinges can also cause crystals.
Title: Re: Crysals?
Post by: BowEd on June 17, 2016, 02:10:28 am
Too stressful of designs for a paticular wood can cause chrysals also.Most times not enough width on the limbs then.