Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: wizardgoat on June 02, 2016, 01:11:26 pm

Title: Belly plugs
Post by: wizardgoat on June 02, 2016, 01:11:26 pm
I've used wood dust, and horn dust with superglue, but have never been totally satisfied with how they turn out.
Just interested in what you guys have had best success with.
I've always been a little hesitant about using TB3 and dust, I figured the plug would shrink a bit
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: DC on June 02, 2016, 01:15:15 pm
I've been re-reading Del's blog and way back he used a piece of limb as a plug so the end result looked like a knot. He only seemed to use it once and never mentioned it again. It sounded like a real slick idea.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: Pat B on June 02, 2016, 01:19:21 pm
Ryan, I've always used wood dust and superglue with good results. If the hole is deep and/or wide I do it in layers to insure I fill all the voids. Watch out fro the fumes from the superglue.
 Some folks use wood plugs, cut to match the hole but I've never done that.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: PatM on June 02, 2016, 01:55:15 pm
Why not use good epoxy mixed with filler of your choice? Epoxy has compressive strength.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: bradsmith2010 on June 02, 2016, 02:03:25 pm
i have used tite bond, it worked well,, I have used super glue it worked well, the epoxy sounds like a good idea,, I have used dirt and superglue,, it worked well,,, I was afraid it might be too stiff,, but was ok,,
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: Jim Davis on June 02, 2016, 02:31:56 pm
I'm guessing you guys are  talking about small voids. Here's what I have done with bigger problems.

I made the plug a snug fit in the notch when the bow was slightly flexed backward, which  made the plug quite tight when the limb was relaxed.

This was a few years ago and the bow is still shooting.

Jim Davis
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: wizardgoat on June 02, 2016, 02:35:52 pm
Ya just seems superglue sometimes gets all hot and crazy and I've had little voids with some fillers.
Epoxy, sounds like a great idea, would epoxy be fine just by itself I wonder. One that dries transparent
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: DC on June 02, 2016, 03:54:53 pm
If you use the CA in thin layers of sawdust and CA it doesn't heat up so bad. Tamp in a bit of sawdust and then dribble in some CA. Have a cup of coffee. Repeat as necessary. Try to avoid the accelerator. It can turn the CA white
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: PatM on June 02, 2016, 04:17:00 pm
 Get yourself some G-flex from Lee Valley or a boat building supplier. It is toughened and designed to take shock, contraction and expansion. It's not clear per se but it looks about like a glob  of conifer resin when cured.  It will stand up on its own.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: bradsmith2010 on June 02, 2016, 04:28:23 pm
Jim thats a nice one, never seen a square one before, I will keep that in mind for sure :)
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: wizardgoat on June 02, 2016, 04:31:05 pm
Ive never seen a square plug, nice work.
PatM, I'll hunt some of that down, sounds like what I'm after
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: bentstick54 on June 02, 2016, 08:14:38 pm
I have 2 Osage selfbows that I used a 2 part epoxy in 3/8" size knot holes, then colored over with a furniture repair marker before finishing with Truoil. One is in the middle of lower limb, mid limb. The other is on the edge of the upper limb a couple inches down from the nock groove on belly side.
Both are holding fine so far.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: osage outlaw on June 02, 2016, 09:19:35 pm
Do you have to plug the knot holes?  I've always left them alone on osage. 
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: mullet on June 02, 2016, 09:33:41 pm
I've done like Clint.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: bentstick54 on June 02, 2016, 09:52:27 pm
I did mine just for looks more than necessity. I don't think either one would have effected durability.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: Jim Davis on June 02, 2016, 10:18:30 pm
There are cases where leaving a hole open would certainly bring failure. I made that rectangular plug before I finished tillering the bow. I think the limb would have broken before I got it tillered if I had not repaired the belly.

The thing is, wood is much stronger in tension than compression, so the belly needs to have no large voids or bad wood..
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: ravenbeak on June 03, 2016, 01:09:44 am
Hey Ryan,

what I use and feel to be the best is powdered stone.  I get it from a wood turners supply in the usa.  I use mostly the green - malachite and the dark blue - lapis.   

Mixed with a bit of gel ca glue it works amazing and polishes up nice too.    Will fill right to the edges of the whole and very little voids.

I use it for my circular arrow pass on the longbows and also for filling knot holes from dead branches.

cheers,

Jamie
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: penderbender on June 03, 2016, 01:43:00 am
Jamie you did some with copper filings that looked really nice.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: ravenbeak on June 03, 2016, 11:08:42 am
Hey you are correct.  Have we met?

I really like the copper dust as well.  It is a bit tricky to work with because it sets up so fast.

I have also used grey sand from the kids sand bow.  That worked great also.

I have never liked the look of sawdust and glue.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: wizardgoat on June 03, 2016, 12:16:14 pm
Thanks Jamie. I knew you used stone for arrow passes, not for belly knots.
I'll have to check that out. I've seen Simon use aluminum I believe.
I'm not wild about the look of sawdust either, thanks for your input.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: Markus on June 03, 2016, 06:00:30 pm
Pieces of sinew made into a ball saturated with hide glue and stuffed into the hole workes also.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: penderbender on June 03, 2016, 11:26:25 pm
Ravenbeak no we have not met haha I emailed you about sinew a while ago. Look forward to attending one of your arrow courses. Cheers
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: Dakota Kid on June 04, 2016, 05:55:23 am
Baking soda and ca glue is often used to repair missing sections of ivory bridges on string instruments. When it sets up it's as easily as hard as quartz. There's a chemical reaction that takes place, but I'm not sure of the details without looking it up. Next time you got your ca glue out mix it with a little baking soda and let it dry on your table. After it sets up test it's strength, I was surprised.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: mikekeswick on June 05, 2016, 03:07:40 am
Some interesting thoughts here. I've used powdered stones as well. Look at a traditional artists shop that sells pigments.
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: Del the cat on June 05, 2016, 03:25:40 am
I've been re-reading Del's blog and way back he used a piece of limb as a plug so the end result looked like a knot. He only seemed to use it once and never mentioned it again. It sounded like a real slick idea.
Yeah, that was for decorative effect, the limb plug has pith in the centre which may create a weak point so I didn't do it again (it was also a lot of work)
Personally I don't like the idea of stone etc. I think the ideal plug should have the same properties as the material around it. I try to use an off cut from the same log, of saw dust/epoxy with the dust being from the same log.
I think the killer is where you have either buried knots which are invisible or small knots which go bigger and deeper than you realise giving effectively a cavity.
Del
Title: Re: Belly plugs
Post by: Eric Krewson on June 06, 2016, 08:38:13 am
I have done several of these half moon plugs, they work but don't last for the long haul, usually cracking in a year or so of shooting.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/100_0024.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ekrewson/media/100_0024.jpg.html)