Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: JW_Halverson on April 10, 2016, 02:46:52 pm
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Turkey season opened this Saturday morning. I didn't go out. I had gone out to scout on Thursday morning, good old One-two-eight Ridge. The ridge is named for the morning I counted 128 hens, jakes, and gobblers come off an extensive roost tree studded finger draw back when we had been blessed with 6 great hatch years in a row.
Shortest access is right off the highway, but requires serious effort to climb an incredibly steep hillside and pass RIGHT under the roost trees. Another alternative access route actually requires a couple of short reaches of technical rock climbing with finger and toe holds in crumbly limestone/sandstone matrix (fun, right? And in the dark - bonus points for style). But scouting is easy, just drive up, park on the edge of the right off way in the dark and roll down the windows to listen.
I was sitting in the dark, nursing a cup of strong black coffee and nibbling the crispy edges of a still hot apple fritter. A few early commuters driving into Rapid City for work passed by in the dark, their headlights ruining my night vision. One had just passed when their brakelights lit and tires squealed. His backup lights came on and he came back up the road in reverse and high speed. The guy parked across the road and came piling out of his pickup obviously agitated. He didn't even look for traffic as he came charging across the road shouting and shaking his fist.
He said someone had already sneaked up in the dark a week ago and had spotlighted the birds, shooting a bunch of hens and gobblers out of the roost trees, leaving them to lay on the ground. I was still trying to wrap my head around his angry approach and the words out of his mouth when he then said he recognized me. He asked if he was right, was I the guy that hunted up there with the old fashioned gun and the funny clothes. I admitted that I was known for wandering around up there in 1760's fashion and a flintlock. He said he owned the land directly north and that he had seen me up there many times and that he'd noticed I never so much as took aim toward the private land, or shot towards his house. The deer were so often in the meadow between the ridgeline and his house. I never considered that an ethical shot, even if it would have been legal to shoot within that distance of occupied buildings.
He calmed down some and I offered to get him in touch with the game warden in the area. He allowed that he had spoken with one and mentioned the name of the officer I had in mind. I told him that I had called the same man several years earlier when I had found baited treestands all over the ridge. The man said he had spoken with the warden during the ensuing investigation, offering help and even encouraging him to use his gazebo to sit and watch the treestands in comfort if that would have helped. He and I shook hands and I apologized for the lack of ethics or morality in the hunting community, he apologized for jumping me like he had.
Days later, I am getting past the aggravation to my personal hunting plans and I have moved onto several bigger questions:
1) Is it just me? Is it something about how I choose land to hunt that seems to coincide with poachers, cheats, and the ethically retarded?
2) If it is not just me, is this a local issue? South Dakota is very much "old west" mindset and there is a growing resentment to the rule of law since it is perceived as coming from "gub'ment" when in reality, we the people are the government and game laws protect OUR OWN resource and without which, we'd have NO GAME FOR ANYONE.
3) If it is not just a local thing, is there much effort in addressing this in the true conservationist movement? And by true conservationist, I mean those on the front lines, putting money and sweat equity where their mouths are. Namely, the publications of NWTF, RMEF, Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, Mule Deer Foundation, Boone and Crocket, Pope and Young, Izaak Walton League, Trout Unlimited, Bass Masters, Sports Afield, Outdoor Life, National Wildlife Federation, and yes - Primitive Archer, etc, etc, etc.
Can I ask everyone to go to the magazines they get and scan the last three months issues for articles about ethics? I want just a rough poll from you, just post how many magazines you receive and how many instances in the last three issues there was an article or editorial pushing ethics. I admit this is anything but an exhaustive, nor even scientific in it's approach, but it's an itch I feel like scratching. I feel our community here is a bit more ethical than the run of the mill simply because we have all made a conscious effort to lean into a craft that has anything but instant gratification. And those that then take these hard won tools out to the field have now again chosen the most difficult route.
For example, I receive two publications. Both have had articles/editorials in the last three issues, so they would be reported as 2 for 2.
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Sounds like some very grievous offences going on there. I bet it boils down to one individual outlaw. I would think it would be a very pet project by LE if it was occurring here.
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It's not just you JW. There is an epidemic of criminal behavior today. As the moral fiber of our nation erodes, we are forced to encounter individuals who are never held accountable. They graduate from school without having literacy, they get a trophy regardless of their athleticism, they admire the gangster and hate the cop, the tv raised them, and they are completely self-centered. No one calls bullshit for fear of being the next viral video or at the very least, being hauled into civil court. It is everywhere - even the woods. We have got to do a better job of raising our kids, supporting the rule of law, and standing up for what is right.
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I agree totally with Howard. JW - My magazines are 5 for 5 on the last few issues. Primitive Archer, Fur-Fish-Game, Traditional BowHunter and Muzzleloader & Woods-N-Water (Local Michigan Paper). Bob
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I know a little off the subject but a good example of the system, I caught a guy Friday evening coming from my barn with 6 of my new tree stands, I couldn't get him stopped but soon figured out who it was, I called the local sheriff's department, when the officer arrived he knew the guy, said he arrested him about once a month. Long story but he found him, no stands and wouldn't tell him where they went, he arrested him for grand larceny [over 1,000.00] stolen and also he had meth amphetamine in his possession. Well that was Friday at about 4pm , he was out by Saturday at noon. Go figure. I feel you pain JW but it's everywhere, Ideal with that stuff all the time.
Pappy
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I grew up in a climber stand and thought no one used anything else because they'll just be stolen. Even now I hunt a 60acre parcel surrounded by a couple hundred acres all leased by two guys. They have stands with shooting lanes cut into the property I hunt on borderline trees. I was always taught to not hunt borderlines in case a big one were to walk by on the other side, avoid that temptation.. And I still don't use anything but climbers or ground. Surprising to me is they practice excellent QDM and then are bullies as well as liars in their interactions with me.
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I see it all too often with the "Hunters" I know. Far more are unethical scumbags than are real hunters. It's tough to watch young family members who learn from their killing machine parents. It is called hunting for a reason. it is the hunt that interests me more than the killing. The laws need to be used to their full extent. There is no excuse to unnecessarily kill animals in or out of season. There is no excuse of "I didn't know". It is our responsibility as hunters and keepers of these wild place to educate, and notify the authorities when we see things like this happen.
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Almost makes one nostalgic for the days when you were executed for poaching the kings deer.
Feudalism
It's your Count that votes!
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Pappy. With all the priors it would seem he would go away this time for a while. I am not surprised he was out the next day. Sorry for your trouble.
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I agree totally with Howard. JW - My magazines are 5 for 5 on the last few issues. Primitive Archer, Fur-Fish-Game, Traditional BowHunter and Muzzleloader & Woods-N-Water (Local Michigan Paper). Bob
Thanks, man. With your count and mine, we are at 7/7.
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I'm 1/1 - don't have many subscriptions.
I'd like to say that the amount of poaching is unique to our culture for some reason or another, but really, people will take the easy way when ever they can. Prevelance today is probably due to increased populations using accessable areas. There's no profit going out to the boonies to poach- they go where its easier and quicker. Unfortunately areas that used to be more remote are becomming readily accessible.
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Maybe you are going to have to quit hunting all of those easy to get to places and find some out of the way challenging places to hunt.
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I realize my statement might not apply to everyone's situation, like any opinion it's got it's flaws.
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Outlaw ATV's! They wouldn't go into the deep woods then. It would make camping a lot quieter too.
That should raise a few hackles >:D
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Maybe you are going to have to quit hunting all of those easy to get to places and find some out of the way challenging places to hunt.
The Black Hills are riddled with roads, logging trails, fire trails, unmapped and unauthorized trails and two tracks like mad. Some are seasonally closed with gates, but most are marked with these fiberglass flappy posts and a number system and there is a complicated motor vehicle travel plan that 99% of the people ignore. There really is nowhere that you can't get a vehicle. I, personally, would like to use low powered IED's to add a degree of surprise to some of these clowns.
My offroad vehicles are made by Redwing Shoes.
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I'm 1/1 - don't have many subscriptions.
8/8
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The only hunting-related magazine I get is PA, so 1/1. Yeah, people can act in pretty terrible ways when they think no one is looking.
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Florida has outlawed All motorcycles and ATV's in MNGT Area's and State and National Forest unless they are road legal.
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There really is nowhere that you can't get a vehicle.
I do suppose my being from the U.P. in Michigan colors my views slightly- there's a lot of areas you can't get a vehicle, at least not easily. Trees and swamp.
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I, personally, would like to use low powered IED's to add a degree of surprise to some of these clowns.
Hmm, I do think they make paint based claymore mines for the paintball crowd....
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I, personally, would like to use low powered IED's to add a degree of surprise to some of these clowns.
Hmm, I do think they make paint based claymore mines for the paintball crowd....
Oh1 I really like that idea. With a game camera so you could see the look on their faces ;D
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I, personally, would like to use low powered IED's to add a degree of surprise to some of these clowns.
Hmm, I do think they make paint based claymore mines for the paintball crowd....
Think they could add some skunk extract in those paintballs??? I always thought a lowdown skunk should smell like a lowdown skunk!
Oh1 I really like that idea. With a game camera so you could see the look on their faces ;D
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I get the Missouri conservationist, north American hunter and American beagler. I sometimes buy traditional archer and the back woodsman magazines. I have pretty much read every one I have cover to cover. With the exception of the back woodsman even one I have read has something on ethics in every issue. Even if it's just a story about a hunt or even a fishing trip. The back woodsman is hit and miss but it's not quite a hunting mag either. So that would be 5 if you count the back woodsman.
On a different note, please read the whole thing.
Several years ago I had two separate instances one in deer season on in turkey season.
I was hunting private land, our family farm, I seen a big doe while walking out of the woods at the end of the day. I still had about 45min of legal shooting time left. I was able to slip into a position to get a clean shot down hill at about 50 yards. I had a perfect broad side shot and a good rest. I tripped the trigger on my 30-30 and she immediately hit the ground. She was kicking a little, but I wanted to get to her and get her gutted out before it started to get too dark. So I started down the hill, about 10 yards in I heard something running, I looked towards where my deer was and see her standing about 20 yards down towards the creek. So I took a knee aimed and fired now she was down for sure. I was taught that when you do get a chance to shoot an animal you make sure it dies quickly and as humanely as possible. I continued down the hill towards the new position where my deer was at. Then I ran into the problem. I had killed 2 doe, in my pocket I had only one doe tag. I knew I was going to have to call the conversation agent asap. I was also taught to never kill something just to kill it and leave it lay. So I decided to field dress both deer and put my only tag on the first one I shot. By this time my 2 uncles, an aunt my dad, grandpa and my brother had made their way to where I was. I was only about 150 yards from the house. I told them all what had happened and they helped me get them out of the holler. Everyone offered to just put one of their tags on the other one. At first, I was so nervous about it that I agreed. At that time in Missouri you still had to take your kill to the check in station. So we loaded them in the truck and stopped by the house to grab a sandwich and head into the check in. Grandpa put his doe tag on the other deer. Then rubbed some blood on him and said he was ready to go. I knew he had to lie to the warden to tag the deer. We made it about half way to town and I told grandpa to stop the truck and that I was going to tell them what happened and just deal with the situation. He argued just a little then pulled over. I took his transportation tag off. When we got to the check in there was no line. I was about to puke. I told the officer the whole story I told you all. His reply was, you couldn't make up a story like that if you tried. I told him I would pay whatever fine and understood that he could confiscate my deer and more. He said, son things happen when you're excited, as he clipped the check in tag on both deer. Then wrote a note for my grandpa so he could still use his transportation tag. Then stuck his hand out and said, that was one of the most ethical things he had ever heard or seen. Told me to go buy another tag and have a good season.
With the way our laws are here I always but 3 tags, an any deer and two bonus tags (anterless only) and I never go out without two tags in my pocket.
I'll make this one short. While spring turkey hunting on public land a managed to shoot my strutting tom and some 20 yards behind him was a hen I didn't see. Apparently my shotgun holds a good enough pattern to kill that hen. Which is a huge no no in the spring. I had a bag phone in my truck so I called the warden and told him what happened. He said believe it or not it's not that uncommon. He drove out to the parking lot at the public land and put a tag on the hen and checked in my tom. He told me to be careful and call him if something like that ever happened again. I had another tom tag and opted to end my season with the tag still in my pocket.
An accident does happen from time to time. But it doesn't excuse poaching and the #&@$% idiots that say, I shot a big buck with a 22 rifle in the headlights of my truck. It was an ethical kill I shot him in the head. The rest of what I want to say can't be posted. Thanks
Patrick
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People are becoming lazier and more selfish plain and simple. They want what they want and they want it as quick and easy as possible. This leads to a lack of appreciation followed by respect in pretty much all aspects of life. Not many people work hard now a days and NO ONE works as hard as their Grandfather's generation did. The current populace is only concerned with themselves and the things they hold dear, for the most part anyway, just look at the way people drive and it's pretty clear.
We've also become increasingly over legislated to the point where breaking some laws is common place and even acceptable. This leads to a certain comfort level with not following the rules and more and more laws get adding to the list of acceptable rules to break. It's a paradoxical relationship. The more laws you make the more comfortable people become with breaking the law. With regard to poaching, I say pull their gun ownership rights and right to vote instead of hunting privileges and fines. They obviously don't care about license suspensions if they are poaching in the first place. That way if they get caught with a gun, they do some long term federal prison time.
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I have a friend who was with someone that poached a deer, he (My Friend) was stripped of his hunting privileges for 10 years, and as a felon, can not own a firearm, nor vote. In the end these people just don't care, one way or the other.
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Patrick I really like you.
I did the same thing (killed a spike with my flintlock I thought was a doe) and turned myself in at the checking station. The game warden said no one had ever done such a thing (turned themselves in) so he wrote me a warning ticket because of my honesty and let me keep the deer as well.
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I know Multiple occasions that being honest paid off with me. Especially with speeding tickets when I saw them and just pulled over. I have a lot of friends in Law Enforcement and it makes it real easy for them when you are honest when you know you are wrong.
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Thanks Eric, I appreciate it bud! I'm glad the warden went easy on ya.
On another note, even though telling the truth is not the most popular thing to do. It's sure easier than eventually telling the truth.
I know this first hand, and I would say that the majority of the guys on here would agree.