Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: JW_Halverson on April 05, 2016, 08:04:07 pm
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Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our bowstaves dead.
I found a passable oak 1x2 at the lumberyard and lost my head. I have never turned out what I would consider a decent red oak board bow, but for some reason I keep trying. I always seem to end up with a couple inches of set, which tells me I am pushing too hard at tillering. The idea on this bow was to slow the tillering process, enjoy it a little more, and see if I can cut it down to an inch or less.
Of course, it isn't an inch by two inches, it is merely an inch and a half wide, so I boosted the nock to nock length to 62" for my 26" draw. I am leaving it full width to within 12 inches of the tips, and a straight taper from there. Glued up the handle yesterday with TBIII, drew out taper on the tips today.
(http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo100/JW_Halverson/Bows/Red%20Oak%20Board%20Bow%204-16/red%20oak%204-16_zpsmpizppmp.jpg) (http://s365.photobucket.com/user/JW_Halverson/media/Bows/Red%20Oak%20Board%20Bow%204-16/red%20oak%204-16_zpsmpizppmp.jpg.html)
I rarely post a bow I have finished, and even more rare to post pics of a job in progress. I guess I am doing it this time to encourage me to stay on this job until it is done. Wanna nag me every week or so until I turn this one in? Heck, might even enter it in BOM, LOL!
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I agree JW...I find myself drawn to try and make a red oak bow. After seeing manny's bow and now your attempt I may try another again soon.
I'll be following....and maybe hassling ya! ;)
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You go J-dub, i've tried thrice and thrice have failed.
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John, red oak varies quite a bit in density. The more dense specimens will do what you want at 1 1/2" but for the typical piece of red oak 2" wide is better with a stiff handle. I have built bows up to 100# bendy handle from 1 1/2" red oak.
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Dubya that is a little narrow just leave it full width till a foot from the handle should help, i like pyramids with red oak but you play the hand your dealt right. You'll get it bee boy
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Dubya that is a little narrow just leave it full width till a foot from the handle should help, i like pyramids with red oak but you play the hand your dealt right. You'll get it bee boy
With the ridiculous length, I might pike away at the dang thing if it is a dog for speed when I have it tillered.
How does red oak behave when the belly is toasted?
Dubya that is a little narrow just leave it full width till a foot from the handle should help, i like pyramids with red oak but you play the hand your dealt right. You'll get it bee boy
It's full width until a foot from the tip, so I think I got that part scoped!
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figured ya did hoss😜
I have lightly toasted it with success, with good dense wood the lighter wood not so much
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Am about 0-3 with toasting ro bellies.
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So, I help a lot of young guys on different sites with board bows, and, well, set happens. Oak bows just seem to take set, and I'm sure, as mentioned that some of that is down to varying densities. But, here are a couple other things I see. Maybe you do these, and maybe you don't. :-P
A lot of board bows are pyramid bows, but I see a lot of them bending too abruptly off the handle. Too much in the first 1/3 of the limb. A lot of guys seem to expect them to be thicker than they end up and bend them too much when they are still too stiff. A lot of guys are way to eager to get a string on it, too. A lot of guys are afraid to trap a board bow, because they don't trust the board. And, finally, a lot of kids back their first board bow with fiberglass tape or linen, and with nthe confidence the backing gives that the bow won't break, they horse on them way too hard early.
That's all I got. Most of that probably won't apply to you, but good luck.
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Id like to see you get a bow from that JW. Good luck and post pics
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You go JW, look forward to seeing the progress. :)
Pappy
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I'm looking forward to this one, too! Really hope it works out.
I have a fair amount of red oak growing here. I did look up the properties awhile back and it showed R.O. being decent in tension, but quite weak in compression for its stiffness. Actually similar to white pine on Joachim's wood quality spreadsheet in that respect (CS/MOE). That might explain why it is iffy for toasting. Maybe that just isn't enough. I didn't think about backing, because if compressive strength is the problem would that really help any? So I had thought about trapping the back if I made one. The problem is, I don't know how much of that is needed (if it is). But I guess you'd need a fairly wide back to keep weight up if you trapped it. A lot of unanswered questions....
Anyway, will be following this, and hoping to learn more. Hope it makes you a fine bow!
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You go JW, look forward to seeing the progress. :)
Pappy
I was looking forward to seeing some progress, too, Pappy. So when I went to the garage this morning and looked at the bow I was very disappointed. Dang-nabbed thing had made absolutely no progress whatsoever in my absence!
I did get both limbs skinned a couple days ago with very thin antelope rawhide. The grain is "good enough", but I also like the rawhide because I intend to stain part of the limbs pure black and rawhide will give me better coverage than just the wood itself. I have also sawn out and tapered some mule deer antler scraps for tip covers. Plan is to make double nocks and send the bow out with a bow stringer.
For once I have stopped myself from shaping the handle before tillering. With the square glued up handle section, it will rest square on the tillering tree, unlike some stave bows I have worked with in the last few years. I tend to get right in there and finish out the handle early on. Used to be I did this to get it out of the way because they were so darned hard for me to get right. then they kinda became one of my favorite steps of the project.
Still no word yet on the final draw weight, the young woman that this bow will go to has yet to get back to me, yet.
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Oh yeah, supposed to post pics to keep myself honest...
Fugly raw tip overlay:
(http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo100/JW_Halverson/Bows/Red%20Oak%20Board%20Bow%204-16/raw%20tip%20overlay_zpstq2z3vuy.jpg) (http://s365.photobucket.com/user/JW_Halverson/media/Bows/Red%20Oak%20Board%20Bow%204-16/raw%20tip%20overlay_zpstq2z3vuy.jpg.html)
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Sawdust= man glitter? I love it.
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Got the whole thing tillered in one big rush. I was careful to not draw over 20 lbs until I felt it was pretty close. Nailed it. I figured I had to be close, so I worked up slow drawing longer and longer until I hit the 26" draw and it was almost 44 lbs. Sanding out to 320 grit brought her in at 40# @ 26".
I laid some fake snake fabric over the back and a coat of reddish stain on the belly. Since this bow will be targets only, I am going to lay up multiple coats of gloss spar varnish. Gonna lipstick this pig real nice.
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um jw....pictures please! how did ya make out set wise?
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Congrats! Look forward to pics.
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um jw....pictures please! how did ya make out set wise?
Started with half inch of set. Tillered out ,but not shot in at about an inch. Photos coming. Got a real photographer lined up to snap the requisite shots for BOM entries.
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Looked at the stain on the belly in the sun light today as I was doing final inspection. I saw something I didn't like on the lower fade out. So, I had to sand it out (lightly) and rework the stain. Everything blended nicely, and I think I am about ready to sign it and lay up the gloss finish.
Right now I am pretty sure that will be gloss spar varnish because of it's durability in all weather.
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Looked at the stain on the belly in the sun light today as I was doing final inspection. I saw something I didn't like on the lower fade out. So, I had to sand it out (lightly) and rework the stain. Everything blended nicely, and I think I am about ready to sign it and lay up the gloss finish.
Right now I am pretty sure that will be gloss spar varnish because of it's durability in all weather.
John, Son of Halver, you're killing me!
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Great-Great-Great-Great Grandson of Halver Helgeson, actually.
What's killin' you?
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(http://i365.photobucket.com/albums/oo100/JW_Halverson/Bows/Red%20Oak%20Board%20Bow%204-16/7dc48655-dc89-4891-b915-b752b15832dd_zpsd7jtphca.jpg) (http://s365.photobucket.com/user/JW_Halverson/media/Bows/Red%20Oak%20Board%20Bow%204-16/7dc48655-dc89-4891-b915-b752b15832dd_zpsd7jtphca.jpg.html)
Double nocks on each end of the bow. This way, I can send along a long bowstringer and the young lady can easily string the bow without the step-thru issue that tends to shorten bow life or screw up tiller.
Plus, I realized I could suggest the pattern of rattlesnake rattles in the tips.
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Beautiful! Solid work
I haven't had a relative named Halvor since 757, my 39th great grandfather.
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Looking good John
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Halvor the rock gaurdian the bow is looking good
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One picture is maybe better than none but it really feels like you are just leading us all on. Come on now. MORE PICTURES!
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The "rattlesnake" nocks are awesome. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw them with the snake pattern.
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That frugly raw tip overlay pic was great. I do so much want to give that a shot. Do you just get the mating surfaces as flat as possible and what glue do you use? Can't wait to see the bow.
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That frugly raw tip overlay pic was great. I do so much want to give that a shot. Do you just get the mating surfaces as flat as possible and what glue do you use? Can't wait to see the bow.
Typically, I use a belt sander to grind the deer antler or cow horn piece flat and to general shape. However, something is slipping in my belt sander and the belt does not turn anymore. So this time I had to do it old school. I clamped the section of antler in my vise and used a finer grade rasp to remove mass. Once it was fairly close to the right cross section and taper, I put a full sheet of high quality 80 grit sandpaper down on a sheet of glass and push the antler across that. Starting with light strokes and adding a little pressure as I go. To check if it is dead flat, I scribble pencil marks all over the flat side and then give it two light strokes across the sandpaper. Any evidence of pencil lead tells me I have a low spot.
To get the bow tips dead flat, I used the 5" circular sanding pad on the side of the table top belt sander, since that still works. You ask why I didn't use that to flatten the antler? Well, those are smaller pieces of work and I have learned that they will slip and cause fingers to mash into the rapidly spinning, highly abrasive 5 inch disc leading to missing skin, fingernails, and bits of bone. Got it? Clear as mud?
Over the last few days, I have been using a can of spray high gloss polyurethane on the bow. I have about eleventeen coats on it and it is looking pretty shiny. Maybe yet this weekend I will get the doeskin grip sown on and the serving on the string and spare string.
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Still no more pictures?
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Nope, no pics until she is finished. That way I can get all the necessary shots, including the hero shot with full draw for the BOM entry.
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Dang tease! Josh