Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Del the cat on March 25, 2016, 07:40:51 am

Title: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: Del the cat on March 25, 2016, 07:40:51 am
Now some might think I decided to do all heartwood because I messed up running it through the bandsaw... I couldn't possibly comment O:)
Anyhow the original stave was way out of line and bent like a dogs back leg. I did a good bit of bending at the grip to get it to line up. On the lower limb there was a BIG knot going right through which was showing signs of cracking across on the belly. I rasped out a big scallop and patched it. The patch is ugly as sin and totally ruins the look of the bow ;)... oh, sorry, I mean it is near invisible. http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/knot-what-knot.html (http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/knot-what-knot.html)
It's made for a left hander, but will just shoot right handed with a bit of a shift of hand position.
50# at 28" 65 1/2 ttt, limb width about 1.75", (a bit wider at the knots)
Shoots nicely, it's had 90 arrows through it, about a dozen left handed to check the arrow pass. I'm getting quite good shooting left handed now :)
The back isn't a single ring, but all the violations run along the length of the limbs... it's somewhere between 1/4 sawn and ring backed... I had to get it out of the stave however I could. Interesting to see an all heartwood bow with a back patch and not ring followed seems fine. (Mind it is Yew... not that funny colonial orange stuff  ;) )
It's got a nice bit of character whilst still being a good field shooting bow.
The lower limb has a little deflex out of the fade and I can't take that out with heat 'cos that's where the back patch is, so it may look weak, but trust me, it isn't O:)
With it lying flat on the floor, the grip and the limbs (a bit in from the tips) all sit flat with the limb tips being about 1.5" off the floor.
More pics on the blog of course...
Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: sieddy on March 25, 2016, 07:58:25 am
That's an absolute corker mate!  :D
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Hrothgar on March 25, 2016, 08:03:38 am
Good looking bow out of a difficult piece of wood Del.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: redhawk55 on March 25, 2016, 08:09:42 am
A lesson: "How to get by with a knot, a real big one".
Very well done "red" yew bow.
Could you tell me why it is usually recommended to leave the sapwood on yew- bows?
I´ve made several yew- bows without sapwood (for similiar reasons you´ve stated) succesfully, but I´ve always the feeling to have committed a crime.
None of my red yewies has broken, but some of my "regularly" made yewies have broken!
Michael
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Del the cat on March 25, 2016, 08:12:24 am
A lesson: "How to get by with a knot, a real big one".
Very well done "red" yew bow.
Could you tell me why it is usually recommended to leave the sapwood on yew- bows?
I´ve made several yew- bows without sapwood (for similiar reasons you´ve stated) succesfully, but I´ve always the feeling to have committed a crime.
None of my red yewies has broken, but some of my "regularly" made yewies have broken!
Michael
Dunno!
But the received wisdom is that the heartwood gives the power and the sapwood stops it breaking... maybe that's true for highly stressed warbows and old English Longbows.
Mind the two tone heartwood/sapwood does look really cool and if the sapwood happens to be the right thickness then there is no work in preparing the back... I s'pose that is the real reason... speed of manufacture, with a bit of added durability due to the untouched back and the less brittle nature of the sapwood
Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Pappy on March 25, 2016, 08:15:27 am
Nice work Del , with what looks to be a very challenging stave.
 Pappy
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: half eye on March 25, 2016, 08:22:26 am
Hey Mr. Cat,
      That right there is a half eye bow if ever there was one. That bad boy deserves to be in the hunting woods sir 8) 8) 8)  Truly you can make a bow from anything....even that yew stuff >:D
rich
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: smoke on March 25, 2016, 08:37:11 am
Very cool bow!!
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: George Tsoukalas on March 25, 2016, 08:37:54 am
Del, that's awesome. That bow is beautiful and tillered well. Excellent! Jawge
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Stixnstones on March 25, 2016, 08:41:19 am
Thats a beaut right there buddy. Great work.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: joachimM on March 25, 2016, 08:43:36 am
Nice job, as usual. And always a good story to be told with it.
I really had to look for the patch on the bow by zooming in on the unbraced picture. A wood patch on the back, that's pretty amazing to pull off.

J
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Badly Bent on March 25, 2016, 08:47:10 am
Nice bow from a nasty stave Del.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: bushboy on March 25, 2016, 08:49:31 am
Looks great!lovely tiller!
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 25, 2016, 08:53:32 am
Well done Del.  Not often you see all heartwood Yew bows
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Del the cat on March 25, 2016, 08:56:53 am
Thanks guys, your praise is highly valued indeed and much appreciated :)
Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: rps3 on March 25, 2016, 09:08:40 am
Lovely bow Del.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: JonW on March 25, 2016, 09:39:34 am
Very very nice bow Del.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: turtle on March 25, 2016, 09:49:17 am
Beautiful.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Will B on March 25, 2016, 09:54:01 am
Great looking bow and a really nice bend. 
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: johnfolchetti on March 25, 2016, 09:56:45 am
Seems as though its all been said. That is lovely work.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Redhand on March 25, 2016, 09:59:37 am
Beautiful bow.  Great job sir!!!
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: ---GUTSHOT---> on March 25, 2016, 11:39:18 am
Wow! That's a sharp bow. Great job
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Steve Milbocker on March 25, 2016, 01:06:43 pm
Del that's a beautiful bow. Someday I'll get some of that Yew. If it were feasible I would gladly trade you some of that "colonial yellow" wood for some :)
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Pat B on March 25, 2016, 10:44:25 pm
Very nice bow Del!   8)
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: ajooter on March 25, 2016, 10:46:05 pm
Agree with all the above...as long as everybody said that is one awesome bow  8)
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: chamookman on March 26, 2016, 03:51:22 am
Great save on a tough stave Del ! As with all Your bows Sir - it's a stunner ! Bob
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Buckeye Guy on March 26, 2016, 12:34:25 pm
Me likey alot !
Good job!  Mate.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: mullet on March 26, 2016, 10:02:51 pm
WOW! That's a heck of a fine tiller job on that piece of wood, and it's not Osage. Looks like a little Yankee influence.Well done my friend.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: wizardgoat on March 26, 2016, 10:46:40 pm
Awesome bow Del I like it. A heartwood yew bow is on my list for sure
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Aaron H on March 26, 2016, 11:13:04 pm
Yew da man Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: crooketarrow on March 27, 2016, 12:39:23 am
  SWEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

 I'VE ONLY BUIT 3 YEW BOWS IN MY LIFE. YEW WOOD ALWAYS SEAMED SPECIAL TO ME.

  WAY COOL DEL
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: osage outlaw on March 27, 2016, 07:23:41 am
Great job on that bow Del. 
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Del the cat on March 27, 2016, 09:27:09 am
Great job on that bow Del.
Cheers... I'm trying to pluck up courage to have a go with that Osage from the monster tree. I keep lookin' at the stave and it keeps lookin' back at me! ;D
Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: dragonman on March 29, 2016, 05:58:04 am
cool bow, good tiller...nice work
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: Parnell on March 31, 2016, 08:58:53 am
Just saw this, Del.  What an interesting bow!  Well done, buddy.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: dantolin on March 31, 2016, 09:14:07 am
Nice bow, and not in a ring on the back!! cool!!!
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive
Post by: okie64 on March 31, 2016, 12:38:20 pm
That yew heartwood is beautiful! Nice job.
Title: Heartwood Primitive FAIL
Post by: Del the cat on April 29, 2016, 04:04:03 am
The guy I made the bow for brought it back with a tiny crack on the back coming from a pin knot, I patched it a couple of days ago and strung it this morning...
The patch was fine but I heard the dreaded TIC...
Another similar but much longer crack has opened up from an entirely different pin, miracle it didn't explode.
I think it shows why we leave the sapwood on or back Yew heartwood.
I'll keep the bow for myself now, maybe patch it and rawhide back it.
I've been rasping out the crack to see how deep it goes, I've gone down 4mm and it's still visible, gone down some more... second pic shows how far I had to go to take out all the crack!
Del
Reminds us that pride comes before a fall with bow making :(
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: johnfolchetti on April 29, 2016, 07:24:37 am
That stinks. Look forward to seeing the patch.
Title: Re: Heartwood Primitive FAIL
Post by: joachimM on April 29, 2016, 07:52:51 am
I think it shows why we leave the sapwood on or back Yew heartwood.

A singularity is hardly the same as a general rule.
 There's been more than one heartwood yew back that stood its ground. As far as tension properties are concerned: these depend on the amount of cellulose fibers on the back. This doesn't change during the change from sapwood to heartwood. What changes is the density of the wood, as you get some extra deposits in wood vessels, which confer better compression properties, and maybe also better cast (a bit less mass on the back if it's sapwood).

I need more evidence than this to convince myself that yew heartwood makes for a crappy back.

Joachim

Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: half eye on April 29, 2016, 09:51:21 am
I'm lucky enough to have one of your Yew bows Mr. Cat....it's a testament to your tillering skills and detail attention sir. 8) Tough wood not with standing my money is on your own bad self, sir. If it can be made to work properly....you are the man. 8) 8)
rich
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: Bob W. on April 29, 2016, 10:30:11 am
Ouch Del, if it can be patched your the guy that can do It!
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: Del the cat on April 29, 2016, 10:36:38 am
Thanks for the vote of confidence guys... this bow was always a bit experimental, a good learning exercise.
Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: Redhand on April 29, 2016, 12:04:04 pm
Good work on that bow.  I truly need a lesson on your patchng job.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: bjrogg on April 29, 2016, 12:22:46 pm
Del I'm looking at picture and wondering if that crack didn't come from pin knot on side of bow it seems to be headed in that direction. I'm not there and some times picture can be deceiving.
Title: Re: Heartwood Primitive FAIL
Post by: JW_Halverson on April 29, 2016, 12:40:33 pm
A singularity is hardly the same as a general rule.

Joachim

That is a quote I am going to post over my workbench! 

In training raptors, we often speak of a bird as  "case study of one"  because while there are general rules that apply, we have to be ready to throw out any rule that is not working and be ready to do that on a moment's notice. 
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: Del the cat on April 29, 2016, 01:47:12 pm
Del I'm looking at picture and wondering if that crack didn't come from pin knot on side of bow it seems to be headed in that direction. I'm not there and some times picture can be deceiving.
Yeah, I think the pin is the focus for the stress, but the whole stave is weird, it's not following a ring and at some points its more like quarter sawn.
This post from my blog shows the first crack, which also comes from a pin, but is much smaller... presumably having patched that and removed one weak point then the next weakest point gave way, still pretty cool that it didn't simply explode.
Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: PaulN/KS on April 29, 2016, 08:02:42 pm
Perhaps the fact that the bow did not explode puts it the category of a "Successful Failure"..?  ;)
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: crooketarrow on April 29, 2016, 08:30:31 pm
  SWEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT AS ALWAYS DEL.

  I envy those that live in yew country. I've always love to hike and pick the trees for staves. All the hard work to get a tree, thought the process, they got to sell able staves. I've cut trees for as long as I've built bows for 23,24 years. I've cut every tree, got them home, split, store them all as if they were mine.

   I've cut tree's in 5 states but never in yew country.

  AWSOME BOW DEL, I LOVE YOUR STYLE.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: George Tsoukalas on April 29, 2016, 10:03:07 pm
I hope she holds for you, Del. Jawge
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: mikekeswick on April 30, 2016, 02:27:32 am
Grain violations!
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: Del the cat on April 30, 2016, 03:03:05 am
Grain violations!
The only place where there are any violations across the bow, is the place where it hasn't cracked!
The bow is sort of hanging off the edge of the log, you can see sapwood on the edge of the limb and is for most of its width almost quarter sawn.
I don't think grain violations have anything to do with it. Maybe that part of the back too some heat tho' when I was heat bending the grip to get the string line. (It's pretty close to that area)
The sketch shows how the limb sits in the log, you can see top right it is following a ring, but the left side is about 1/4 sawn.
The shape of the log gave me little choice.
Yeah I realise I've drawn an elliptical log :-[, but I couldn't be bothered to re-draw ::)... it illustrates what I'm on about and it does show the centre of the log exposed on the belly which is how it is in reality.
Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: BowEd on April 30, 2016, 10:26:10 am
Kuddos for hanging and staying in there with this piece of wood.Patches etc.Good learning experiences for the future.This may or not be related but bows that I've fixed from chrysaling on the belly have always come back to haunt me insidiously over time and shooting.With the back being the issue here rawhide or a light sinewing may be the cure like said earlier.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: Del the cat on April 30, 2016, 12:29:23 pm
Cheers, I've got some dog chews and hide glue "pearls" soaking, ready to have a go tomorrow.
Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: PaulN/KS on April 30, 2016, 01:44:43 pm
Never give up. Never surrender...  ;)
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: wizardgoat on April 30, 2016, 03:45:00 pm
Del, that's a shame but you  always seem to find a solution.
I have some yew staves where I needed to ditch the sapwood, I still haven't had the courage to do an all heartwood bow, although I'm not sure why.
A sinew patch I'm sure would do it.
I've done a couple yew bows with 1 - 1.5 layers of sinew, and even that small amount of sinew on yew is very noticeable in keeping a profile, and adding some speed (and insurance)
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: Del the cat on April 30, 2016, 03:53:49 pm
Hi, yeah sinew is sort of on my to do list!
I've got a bundle of deer leg sinew somewhere...
Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: bow101 on April 30, 2016, 06:35:09 pm
Perhaps the fact that the bow did not explode puts it the category of a "Successful Failure"..?  ;)

That sounds like a fart that does not smell.
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: PaulN/KS on April 30, 2016, 07:43:42 pm
Perhaps the fact that the bow did not explode puts it the category of a "Successful Failure"..?  ;)

That sounds like a fart that does not smell.

It's an engineering expression. (The former as opposed to the latter...)  ;)
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: Del the cat on May 01, 2016, 02:07:25 am
Perhaps the fact that the bow did not explode puts it the category of a "Successful Failure"..?  ;)

That sounds like a fart that does not smell.

It's an engineering expression. (The former as opposed to the latter...)  ;)
One of my fave's is "Mended beyond repair"... which is maybe the way this one is headed?
Del
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: mikekeswick on May 01, 2016, 04:00:45 am
I understand Del but the grain is violated ;)
I know yew bows can be made this way but it's not for me. I like one ring on the back. I've seen quite a few break over the years where people hadn't followed a ring. I've also seen heavily butchered yew staves stay together but for how long.....
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: Hrothgar on May 01, 2016, 07:57:06 am
Del, sorry to see the failure, I was really liking the character of this bow. "Mended beyond repair" :)
Title: Re: Del's Heartwood Yew Primitive- FAIL
Post by: dantolin on May 02, 2016, 04:13:05 am
Sorry to read that bad news. It was a nice bow.