Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: TheArborist on March 16, 2016, 11:42:07 am

Title: Stave wood from my property
Post by: TheArborist on March 16, 2016, 11:42:07 am
First off, Hello all, I'm new here.  I'm a certified arborist by trade who loves outdoor recreation and and hand tool woodworking, so I was pretty excited to find this forum after I started reading TBB recently. 

Anyway, I own a small parcel of 14 acres of mixed woodland and prairie in Central Texas, and I would like to start cutting some staves in preparation for learning bowyery.  Here are the species available to me: Hackberry (Celtis laevitaga), Mesquite (Prosopis glandulosa), Honey Locust (Gleditsia triacanthos), Cedar Elm (Ulmus crasifolia), Eve's Necklace (Sophora affinis), Post Oak (Quercus stellata)

What should I start with?  Preference to beginner friendly, as I have never tried to make wood bendy before.  In fact, my furniture projects usually focus on making the wood not be bendy.

Also, is limb wood worth using assuming it is not twisted?
The reaction wood of angiosperms tends to be tension wood which would build up on the top side of the branch, so would it be better on that type of wood to try making the back of the bow from the top side of the limb, as it would be preconditioned for tension?  It's kind of like how if you see the stump of an angiosperm you can tell what the lean of the tree was based on the pith.  Wood will have build up more on the outside of the lean.

That's a lot of questions I know.  Thanks for any help.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 16, 2016, 11:48:46 am
Hackberry is the only one that catches my eye. You can make a bow out of nearly any wood. Durability and usability are number for me. Limb wood, or second growth is most often more resilient and make a better bow, in some woods.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: John Scifres on March 16, 2016, 12:07:51 pm
Yes, hackberry is my choice from the list.  I'd not mess with limb wood as your first bows.

How big of a tree do you have?  Cut one that is 10" or so.  Make sure the butt log is 6' long or more. Split it into staves 3" across the bark.  Take one stave for use now.  Seal the rest for at least 6" at the ends. 

Best to do all the following in one sitting:

Take your chosen stave and peal the bark carefully so that you have an intact outer ring.  That is the back of your bow. 

Cut the stave to 70".  Mark the tip-to-tip center.  Make the handle 4", 2" either side of center.  Make the fades 2" or so past the handle.

Draw a center line the full length of the stave.  Hackberry usually has straight enough grain that this is going to be a straight line.  Mark the fades at 2" wide, 1" on either side of your center line.  Mark the tips as 2" wide for now.  Connect the dots.

Cut the line wide.  Thin the limbs from fades to tips to 5/8" thick.

Seal the stave with shellac,

Cut a 2X6 with a gentle reflex, flat at the handle.  Clamp the stave in reflex to the board.  Use strong packing tape to hold it on.  Let it dry for 1 month in coolish conditions.

Come back to it in a month.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Marc St Louis on March 16, 2016, 12:31:11 pm
Cedar Elm is one of the hard Elms and should be excellent for bows
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: TheArborist on March 16, 2016, 12:58:29 pm
These are great responses.  I really appreciate it. 

I have a lot of thin trees of around 6" dbh and less, but there are definitely larger specimens available.

I'm hesitant to use the cedar elm because it is so impossible to split, and my bandsaw only has about an 8" resaw capacity.  Also, it is ridiculously hard though nothing like the mesquite.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 16, 2016, 01:02:39 pm
Somebody on here attempted and/or made a cedar elm bow. Try typing cedar elm in the search function, you might find something.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: TheArborist on March 16, 2016, 01:12:28 pm
Here is a cedar elm bow I found.  This looks fantastic and makes me want to try this wood.  The majority of my trees are cedar elm  - probably 75%. 


http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35359.msg465454.html#msg465454 (http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,35359.msg465454.html#msg465454)
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 16, 2016, 01:34:18 pm
That's the one, I had a feeling Kevin was the guy.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: wizardgoat on March 16, 2016, 02:18:19 pm
I seen some nice sinew backed mesquite bows too. I'd be tempted to cut some if I found anything suitable, it's such pretty wood
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: TheArborist on March 16, 2016, 02:31:22 pm
I do a lot of other stuff with mesquite like fly boxes and mallets, and it really is beautiful.  It almost always grows crooked and twisted though.  I assume that would be problematic.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 16, 2016, 02:35:06 pm
Fly boxes? Now you have my attention :)
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: TheArborist on March 16, 2016, 04:00:54 pm
Am I allowed to show images like this?  I don't want to break any forum rules here.  I think that the mesquite I've got might make nice risers though.  It would certainly add some weight to the center of the bow.


(http://i.imgur.com/zRp73Ze.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/bLwn3y3.jpg)
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Chief RID on March 16, 2016, 04:29:43 pm
Welcome aboard there Arborist.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Eric Krewson on March 16, 2016, 04:41:44 pm
I make my first split on big logs with a chainsaw, this way I can get them to a manageable size quickly.

"you will waste some wood by using your chainsaw and not following the grain" is the normal reply to my method. Wood loss is minimal and wear and tear on my aged frame is minimal as well.

I got 17 hickory staves out of the last two logs I cut, a chainsaw split was my first order of business on both of them. It was easy to knock the halves into quarters and less after that first split.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/osage%20cutting/hickorystaves.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ekrewson/media/osage%20cutting/hickorystaves.jpg.html)

I used saw horses, a skill saw and a chalk line to cut out my staves, easy peasy.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v181/ekrewson/osage%20cutting/finishedhickorystaves.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ekrewson/media/osage%20cutting/finishedhickorystaves.jpg.html)

My point is, cut your staves anyway you can with any tool you can, it's all good.

I only make one chainsaw split with osage and split everything with wedges else because that is what osage likes.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Thunder on March 16, 2016, 04:51:09 pm
Welcome to PA fellow Texan,
I'm not sure about the rest but I'd try the Elm or Hackberry first, even a 2" sapling can make you a great hunting bow.
Nice fly box btw

Cheers,
Thunder
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: TheArborist on March 16, 2016, 04:52:50 pm
I like the chainsaw splitting idea.  As a tree worker, a chainsaw is a pretty second nature tool for me, so I could see that saving some time on difficult species.  I used to carve little thrones with my chainsaw out of stumps for people when I did removals.  They thought it was novel, and it saved me having to grind the stump.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Aaron H on March 16, 2016, 05:19:02 pm
I like the chainsaw splitting idea.  As a tree worker, a chainsaw is a pretty second nature tool for me, so I could see that saving some time on difficult species.  I used to carve little thrones with my chainsaw out of stumps for people when I did removals.  They thought it was novel, and it saved me having to grind the stump.
we simple minded folks love pictures!
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: TheArborist on March 16, 2016, 05:32:06 pm
Here you go:

This was actually a big hackberry removal.  That would have been a lot of bow staves.
(http://i.imgur.com/9n38k9P.jpg)

Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Aaron H on March 16, 2016, 05:34:19 pm
I can't find the cup holder  ;)
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: J05H on March 16, 2016, 05:43:03 pm
The two obvious choices have already been mentioned, but I'd like to point out one that may have been overlooked. Post oak is part of the white oak genus which is generally well regarded as bow wood.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Swampman on March 16, 2016, 06:01:12 pm
I like the fly box.  Very nice work.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on March 16, 2016, 07:20:31 pm
That fly box is slick.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: mwosborn on March 16, 2016, 07:45:44 pm
Another vote for hackberry.  Nice easy wood to work.  Those boxes are too cool.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Danzn Bar on March 16, 2016, 08:10:44 pm
For what it's worth.... I just got through finishing my first Hackberry bow and loved working with the wood and it made a pretty good bow.
DBar
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: txdm on February 06, 2017, 04:05:12 pm
Fellow central Texan here, and I'm planning to split this post oak log real soon. The ground gave out on it's roots last year, and I cut it and let it set for a while. I was intending to use it for a post, but it looks straight enough to try for some staves.

(http://www.dmcknight.net/forumpics/post-oak/1.JPG)

(http://www.dmcknight.net/forumpics/post-oak/2.JPG)

(http://www.dmcknight.net/forumpics/post-oak/3.JPG)

You can tell my chain was just about well-done on the day I cut it down.  :P
I imagine it will be darn near impossible to just split with a hammer/wedge.

TheArborist, don't forget about Mulberry! It's pretty common in the post-oak savannahs and thickets around the lost pines areas.

Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Pat B on February 06, 2017, 04:42:21 pm
I wouldn't use that log for bow staves. It will make good firewood.   ;)
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: txdm on February 06, 2017, 04:55:58 pm
I wouldn't use that log for bow staves. It will make good firewood.   ;)

Serious? I wouldn't know... but I don't want to wast time on it if its not good.

BTW, I have loads of post oak logs for bbq-ing already. Also have a huge cedar elm that was struck by lightning... its still standing. The branches that have fallen from it are like stone!
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Springbuck on February 06, 2017, 05:35:11 pm
That elm and hackberry seem like the place to start.  One of my favorite staves to find is a clear, straight split, 68" long or more, from a 5" dia. hard "white" elm sapling.

 Honey locust will make a bow, but has lots of issues and is mediocre to decent at best.  Heartwood sure is pretty, though.

If you cut a branch or sapling you can take a bow from the upside, or the downside, in my experience.  Most people I've heard say, say they prefer the upside, as it often dries into nice reflex and has favorable growth ring thickness. 

 If you try taking a stave from the side of a leaning tree instead of top and bottom, you will have nightmares.

Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: txdm on February 06, 2017, 06:06:11 pm
Thanks for all the advice Springbuck.

We planted about 30 honey locusts last year because they make good garden trees (light shade and good rhizomes)

The more I read, the more I realize I'm blessed to have some acreage here. Lots of good bow woods grow natively or will grow here with ease. I'm not sure how Osage Orange would do in my sandy soil, but that would be awesome.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: osage outlaw on February 06, 2017, 06:08:29 pm
txdm, that oak log is no good for bow making.  White woods need to be split and kept dry as quick as you can after they are cut.  Fungus and rot set in very fast.  I'm afraid you would be wasting your time if you split that into staves. 
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: txdm on February 06, 2017, 06:12:29 pm
txdm, that oak log is no good for bow making.  White woods need to be split and kept dry as quick as you can after they are cut.  Fungus and rot set in very fast.  I'm afraid you would be wasting your time if you split that into staves.

Got it, I'll be prompt about splitting the next one. This one will become a post, or smoke wood.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Pat B on February 06, 2017, 08:12:10 pm
Yes, the deep checks and the discoloration of the end cut show that it has been sitting around for a while. Like Clint said...whitewoods(not osage, locust, yew) need to be taken care of properly right away. It doesn't take fungi long to ruin a piece of whitewood bow wood. It might make good furniture, boxes, knife scales, tip overlays, handle risers or game calls but not bows.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: txdm on February 07, 2017, 09:00:56 am
Thanks for the advice everyone. It's good to know in advance of the opportunities that will come.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: GlisGlis on February 07, 2017, 10:00:18 am
that mallet and fly box are beatiful !!
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Springbuck on February 07, 2017, 10:13:03 am
  If you ever get into making backed bows, take some of the darker pink/brown honeylocust heartwood, and pair it with something like ipe, walnut, or black walnut.  So pretty it'll knock your eye out.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Hawkdancer on February 11, 2017, 12:28:28 am
Arborist,
awesome fly box and mallet!  Got me interested in the mesquite.  I have done some boxes with redwood recovered from an old hot tub and am looking for other woods to work.   I will send a pm.
Hawkdancer
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: ---GUTSHOT---> on February 11, 2017, 06:39:59 am
I also really like the fly box and mallet. Nice work
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Stixnstones on February 11, 2017, 09:12:53 am
i would start with hackberry. it makes a great  bow and loves heat... both dry and wet. i have it all around my area and it has become my favorite wood to work ( next to osage of course ).
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: txdm on February 11, 2017, 10:07:00 am
i would start with hackberry. it makes a great  bow and loves heat... both dry and wet. i have it all around my area and it has become my favorite wood to work ( next to osage of course ).

I need to look it up and find out how to ID it... I have lots of wooded area, there's hopefully some.
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: Stixnstones on February 11, 2017, 10:12:47 am
Very distinct bark pattern, once you see it you'll never forget it
Title: Re: Stave wood from my property
Post by: MulchMaker on February 11, 2017, 04:59:37 pm
I never thought about making my own flybox!! Nice work and thanks for the idea...Mr Arborist.