Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Dustinhill on March 08, 2016, 04:12:31 pm
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Hi, I I've been working on a hickory short bow (it's really short because I butchered part of it with a drawknife while debarking) and am getting the tiller about where I'd like it, but I'm not sure how to proceed. I'm shooting for a decent weight #40-50 at 16in. The bow is 36 3/4 nock to nock. I don't have a scale but Im in decent shape and can't pull it much past 12in. Any thoughts on how to even out my tiller and get the last 4 in of draw without it exploding in my face would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Dustin
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Can you post the same pic without the circle? Hard to tell cuz of the black line but looks like your outer limbs are barely bending.
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ill do that asap. the tips are definitely still too stiff
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Here's the picture without the circle
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Seems like most the bend is a few inches above and below your hand. Looks to me like you need to stay away from the center third for a while.
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Did you get a good floor tiller?
On bows this short I like to bend them over my knee towards me, you can see the bend very clearly.
Looks like all your bend is happening in your handle area, your limbs are not bending at all. To get better tiller tips it's good to post
front and side profiles, both braced and unbraced
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Yes, need a front profile picture. But it's safe to say it could bend more in the mid and outer limbs.
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Thanks for the advice everyone! so is the general consensus that I should I leave the handle alone and get the last 4in of bend from the outer parts of the limbs? And I'll post the requested pictures soon. Thanks!
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And wizardgoat, i floor tillered with a farriers rasp and checked with video of me pulling it with the bow on the floor. I didn't really know what to look for though. I just tried to avoid hinges. Should the outer parts of the limb be bending right away? Or should the tiller become circular at my full draw length?
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On bendy handle bows it's better to get the limbs bending evenly first, then get the handle moving near the very end of draw. Big thing is not over stressing your handle area ever, the worst place to take set. Short bows are fun to make and shoot, and can be tough to tiller. Small mistakes are amplified. Keep posting your progress
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Thanks for the advice everyone! so is the general consensus that I should I leave the handle alone and get the last 4in of bend from the outer parts of the limbs?
Not exactly. I don't see anyone recommending you to scrape the outer limbs. The consensus is that only the handle part is bending. The outer limbs, AND MID LIMBS, are very flat. You should get the last 4" of draw from the MID TO OUTER limbs.
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Wow I completely misunderstood how to tiller! I thought that in order for I higher performance I should start with the handle and work outwards ending with stiffer tips. Thanks for the help everyone, really glad I checked in before stressing it further!
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Dustin, a bow that short you should try to minimally hold the bow with your left hand, that is, don't use your whole fist. Think of holding with just your pointer and middle finger. Just my 2 cents.
Here is a better perspective of your tiller.
Your limbs are below the elliptical plane because the bending is too great in the handle and too stiff mid to outer limb.
Hope this helps.
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Quick 2 cents, Dustin. You've got good advice so far, but to reinforce....
A bow that short should bend in the handle and have stiff tips, but like many have said, your stiff tips are currently too stiff and too long. But, to my eye it's not the outer part of the limbs that need the bend. If I divided the bow visually into into six segments from end to end, 1 and 6 can still be pretty stiff, but right now almost all your bend is in 3 and 4. 2 and 5 need to be bending a lot more. Preferably more than 3 and 4.
When you only have 36 inches, you can only afford short stiff tips.
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Thanks springbuck and parnell, your advice is very helpful in visualizing what I need to do. I'll be busy for the next few days with work but Im excited to get working! Thanks everyone, I'll post pictures with my progress
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Here's an update on my progress. I removed some wood from the mid to outer limbs. It seems like I still have a lot left to remove before it starts to bend right. Also it definitely took a lot of set already because of my poor Tillering concept. Either way thanks for the pointers everyone, I'm wanted to check to see if it's at least a step in the right direction.
Thanks,
Dustin
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Also I only removed wood from "sections 2 and 5". That was a very helpful concept. Final thought... Is the top limb bending more than the bottom one?
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Your top limb is close, your bottom limb is needs to catch up.
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Here I am drawing it to 14". Thank you to everyone who has helped me so far, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your advice! If I have evened out the limbs should I just go ahead and draw to 16?
I don't want to lose too much more weight.
Thanks,
Dustin
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Also I'm wondering if the limbs are even ;)
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Hi, here's another update. It feels like something is out of whack. The top limb is definitely bending more, but is it bending evenly. Is there a hinge in it? I'm not sure where to remove wood from either limb at this point. I'm almost done, but I'm having trouble evening things out. Any advice is very appreciated. Thanks!
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That's a huge improvement! Good job!
I would scrape the red area a bit, so it catches up with the weaker upper limb.
(http://i63.tinypic.com/5ahops.png)
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Thanks! It's funny, I can see when it's wrong but it's hard to tell what to do to fix it. It might be a week or so before I get to work on it again, but thanks for the help! I'll post some more pictures as it progresses
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Thanks to everyone who's given me pointers so far, I've learned a lot. With that being said, there is still a lot that I'm unsure about.I have removed wood per everyone's suggestions and wanted to check that i wasn't seeing this wrong. Is the lower limb still too stiff from mid limb out? And the upper limb needs to bend more towards the outer part?
Thanks,
Dustin
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I think your lower looks good and the upper is a little stiff in the inner 2/3s..that top tip is flexing a little too much.
Just my two cents...looking good tho
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(http://i.imgur.com/0Xzq8dZ.jpg?1)
After loosening up the inner 2/3s on that upper you will probably have to take some even scrapes off the bottom to balance it out and catch it up to the upper.
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Thanks ajooter, ill try and even it up tomorrow! Do I need to worry about the upper tip? Also I'm confused about one aspect of checking the tiller... I noticed you put a circle on the picture, but another member used an ellipse and said that the parts of my bow beneath the elliptical plane weren't bending enough. Does that carry through to the circle? In other words, What information should I be getting from the picture?
Thanks,
Dustin
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I would think you want a circular tiller on a bow like that....get as much of the bow working as possible. Have you ever used a tillering gizmo ? Eric Krewson is a member and he has posted on how he makes his...it's a good tool to make.
I use the circle to get a rough idea where I'm at..helps me see if both limbs are balanced and such. It can also show hinges starting and or flat spots. I do tube them as much as I used to...but every once in awhile it helps.
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Thanks for mentioning that, I checked out the article, seems like a very handy tool! I'll have to make one of those.
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The bow is parallel (more or less) in width so your tiller should be elliptical.
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When your bow is this short you should try to cut the nocks as close to the tips as possible. You'll gain an extra inch of draw from the same amount of bend. I would definitely do that if you still have enough material at the tips to taper in and get rid of the old grooves and cut new ones.
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Pat - thanks for the advice, I should have enough to material as the tips are 3/4. I kept them wide hoping to minimize set. I could probably start my taper a little earlier and go to 1/2. Do you have any pictures of what you're talking about? Should I just cut in the same side nock I already have but higher up? What distance from the tip should it be?
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The only potential problem would be that my upper tip is already bending too much. Would higher and narrower nocks make that problem worse?
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As long as you don't reduce the depth you shouldn't make the tip much weaker.
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Ok I'll see what I can do. Any thoughts on how far from the tip the nock should be?
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heres another update on my progress... I tried to even out the tiller, and weighed the bow with a bucket and some weights. It's 40lb at 12" (I didn't have the nerve to go further) I can pull it back to about 15", haven't been able to get it to 16 yet. Any thoughts on what the draw weight would be there? Also I don't think I can cut new nocks, I've attached a picture. I'll keep the higher nocks in mind for the next one though! Im planning on heat treating the bow and trying to stiffen up the top tip that way. would that work?
Thanks again for all the help, I'm learning a lot!
Dustin
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Last question, sorry! I did shoot the bow, need to practice my pinch grip with the higher draw weight... But I noticed the arrow left what look like crystals (they weren't there before I shot it) on he side of the bow where it wrapped around. Is this a problem? What should I do?