Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: make-n-break on March 04, 2016, 09:15:20 pm
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Title says it all. Two pieces of hickory butt spliced in the center of the handle. Then glued in six 3/8 oak dowels that run all the way through. Used TBIII. The handle riser is two pieces of red oak that total 1" thick so I know the riser won't be flexing. I imagine it will still be subject to some tension force?
The 'stave' is 66" long, 2.5 wide, pyramid style. Handle is 5 inches long and 1-1/4 wide to give it some more glued area. I'll also be wrapping very tightly in two layers of jute/hemp/sisal. Going for I dunno.... 55-60 pounds give or take? I prefer heavier bows 70+ but I don't think I trust this splice to handle that much weight. Think she'll make it? Betting is open lol. Advice?
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I would glue another lam over the back of the handle as well to cover that butt splice. I think you would probably be all right at 55#....maybe haha. Only one way to find out ;)
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no I would not trust it,, :(
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Nope.
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No. You should try it just so we can confirm our intuition as to where it will pop even before it breaks outright.
The dowels don't actually do much but create another option for breakage.
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One more vote for no, but I am curious to see what happens if you try it.
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no money on the bet, if the fiber is used to wrap around the handle.....
but if you laid the fiber in glue, longituidnally down the back like plan B did on his meare heath, then I would be willing to wager some....
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Well crap. I'm a little sad there arent more positives! I thought the dowels were a solid plan haha. I've only ever found one other hickory board this nice too.. So I really wanted it to become a shooter.
You better bet I'm gonna try though! I'll post pics after the explosion. Any more yes votes if I were to put a thin lam over the dowels and splice as ajooter mentions ? Any other remedies?
I've tried plant fiber backing before Willie and it was so dang messy and frustrating. I know it's just from inexperience but I definitely did not enjoy the process and I wouldn't look forward to doing it again.
Spose I could just slap a veneer over the top and get to going. My tiller tree has a long rope so I'm not afraid to bend this thing lol
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As far as building bows that's not a splice. If it was mine I'd cut it at the butt joint, get a piece of 1-1/4" pipe and make a takedown
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I am positive that will come apart. Probably at first brace.
You need to have 10 to 1 ration bottom riser glued on at minimum. Ten times longer than the bow is thick. Now, you have a perfect situation for bolt on limbs or do a scarf joint of some sort.
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Another no. Didn't you have enough length for a Z splice?
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redhawk got high marks for his two limb glued handle bow
you guys are being to hard on make-n-break's creative idea
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,55803.0.html
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Not sure if I would trust it. But I would shape the handle before getting it braced. Then wrap it with braided fishing line and soak with CA glue.
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I would glue another lam over the back of the handle as well to cover that butt splice. I think you would probably be all right at 55#....maybe haha. Only one way to find out ;)
+1
A lam over the back (feathered out nicely) will give a huge glue area and make it into a sensible joint. I've used this trick on Yew ELBs where the splice has been a bit short.
Del
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Glue an overlay over the back - not a veneer....like 3/16ths. round everything over and wrap the snot out of it with the strongest cord you've got.
Are the limbs 1 inch thick at the moment?
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I don't see it? What do the dowels do? What holds the thing together? I ain't never spliced anything so what do I know. Good luck!
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I don't see it? What do the dowels do? What holds the thing together? I ain't never spliced anything so what do I know. Good luck!
I think the dowels are there to use up some old dowels that have been lying around for ages ;)
Del
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I'm with Del & Ajooter I would also shoot 2 stainless screws with apoxy on the threads ether side of the joint before putting a lamb over the back or if you wanted to stay all wood you could route a Chanel or cut with a mortise chesile and put a hard wood inlays before the lamb. Not exactly traditional but would be strong as heck !
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As far as building bows that's not a splice. If it was mine I'd cut it at the butt joint, get a piece of 1-1/4" pipe and make a takedown
I agree with what Bubby recommended.
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DC there was probably enough for a Z but I'm pretty inexperienced at Z and W. Don't have a bandsaw but after this endeavor I'm gonna go grab a miter hand saw and practice hand cut splices.
Cloud feather, I was gonna shape and wrap before I started bending. More time invested if it does explode but more insurance that it won't I figured.
Del your success with the lam is encouraging
Mike, the board is 3/4 inch thick and u was gonna make sure the limbs didn't bend til well out of the fades.
Chief Rid, honestly I guess I thought the dowels would give it more glued surface all the way through.. maybe some extra stability, and make it just more "connected" haha. I don't know. An experiment I guess?
Bender I don't want any metal in this one. Thought about routing a Chanel at first but I've never been able to route on hickory without bad tear outs. Didn't wanna risk it. The no metal plan also ruled out sleeve take down. Just not what I was goin for with this one.
Gonna start bending Sunday!
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I've tried the wood dowels approach to save a low-poundage bow where the handle had popped off. I used just 3 dowels and they were not as big as yours. It was a failure.
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Many years ago I thought dowels would reinforce a splice, I found the wood would crack around the dowels and haven't used them since.
I would go back to square one on your splice and make a correct one.
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Replace those inner dowels with bolts and make it look like a takedown. Call it a "fakedown" >:D
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Overlay the butt joint stoutly. (Like with a 3/16 hardwood lam) Then shape the handle down to slightly under your grip size, and wrap it VERY tightly in glue saturated high strength fiber/cord. That should do it...
OneBow
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I'm with Del & Ajooter I would also shoot 2 stainless screws with apoxy on the threads ether side of the joint before putting a lamb over the back or if you wanted to stay all wood you could route a Chanel or cut with a mortise chesile and put a hard wood inlays before the lamb. Not exactly traditional but would be strong as heck !
I don't even think an adult sheep will save it. :P
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if the boards are so nice like you say,, then no need to break them,, try your questionable splice on a scrap piece of wood to see if it will work,,
on your good piece of wood,, make a take down,,
or even a simple fishtail splice would work on a lower poundage,,
no need to experiment on you straight boards,, till you have proven your splice on a scrap piece of wood,,,
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redhawk got high marks for his two limb glued handle bow
you guys are being to hard on make-n-break
The title of the topic is do we trust this splice, no body being hard on him but ask an honest question get an honest answer
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I had a quarter-sawn hickory factory made bow that had sat in an open shed for 20 years or so in fog, high humidity, severe cold and summer heat. The first time I pulled it, the glue let go.
The limbs were joined with a short, mulit-fingered glue joint such as is used in economy door and window trim and it had a separate handle piece glued to the back. The fingers were no more than 1/2 inch long.
I cleaned out the old glue and reassembled it with Titebond II. It held and the bow became a shooter again. That was about 20 years ago and it was still holding when I gave it away about a year ago.
Soooooo, I think your doweled joint might hold. Hope yo try it.
Jim Davis
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like ajooter said if you put another lam on the back across the joint it may hold
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The title of the topic is do we trust this splice, no body being hard on him but ask an honest question get an honest answer
you are right bubby, went back and fixed it , being droll does not come through well in forum posting
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That is so true willie
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The doubled up handle looks a bit short?i would shorten up the fades to 1-1/4".after tillering and finishing they will likely end up around 1-1/2" to 2 ".if the bow flexes in the fades at all it's over!i also like the idea of gluing some thing on the handle on the back side,but keep it inside the fade and handle area.good luck!
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I'm not sure of your experience level, so as to not offend.Pat B did and excellent build along a while back with a hickory backed lemonwood that really does a great job showing the handle to fade transition!very cool indeed!
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No offense taken bushboy. I'm savvy on board bow fades. Take the handle/fades with a grain of salt right now. I cut a good bit of it off when I do the handle fade transition. I just like to have extra meat on there in the beginning. The handle is 5" long and the fades are 2.5 inches long. It just looks funny during glue up with the longer piece on there. I like gradual, round, long curves on my pyramids.
I went with a 3/16 flat sawn lam of hickory over the whole mess. Seasoned and milled by yours truly too!! No kiln wood. After the lam I'm actually pretty confident it's gonna hold, and I'm lowering my target weight to a solid 55 give or take. Started roughing out but time to take my GFs kiddo to the park. Quick Pic in a minute...
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Attached is a rough example of the layout before I round everything off with long curves and here's a finished example of the style I use for my board bows. The top lam goes into the fade some but it will be feathered out gradually so that it's real thin out there on the inch or so into the fade.
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Looking at the pencil line I drew now that it's on the screen it looks all jacked up, but you can see what I mean from the pic of the finished one. It just kinda comes together once the rasp hits it lol.
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Hey, Make-n-break! I saw this bow survived in the other thread. I have a few ideas for you, since I have tried so many similar things just to see WHY it won't work. :-)
If you add a handle like that, either with just a board or two butt spliced boards like you did, and want to add dowels, ANGLE the dowel holes. My best luck has been to angle them just a little, from close together on the belly near the handle, toward the tips as you come out the front. Like this. \ \ / / if we say the back is up and handle is down. On a board to handle set up, this helps lock them down mechanically as the bow bends. On butted boards it seems intuitively that opposite would be better, though.
Also, instead of butting them, you can very easily do a simple slash or diagonal splice. Just gives each board more length on the overlap. It really improves the strength (though you proved maybe we don't need it,) You know how to handle fades, of course, and a front overlay helps and looks good, too. You can flip one board, stack them, and clamp them and make the same angle cuts at the same time. Of course, you need that extra 3-4" in board length to begin with.
Lastly, when you get that handle shaped, I have a couple times wrapped the handle splices/joints with baling wire, then added the twine wrapping over the top of it.