Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Lumberman on March 01, 2016, 09:23:38 am
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So I have gathered that a good backing can protect a bow that has grain violations but does the grain have to be perfect on the backing?
Also would it be intolerably inefficient to use a tension weak wood to back a tension strong wood for a asthetic appeal? I have a bunch of thin walnut boards from 1/8" to 1/2" and some some hickory with not so perfect grain patterns for standing alone. I keep breaking or over thinning the ones with good grain patterns and am running out lol
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Hickory, maple or boo are the top backers. All are tension string. Grain is always imperative, especially on a backing.
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Thanks that answers the first question, I'm not wondering what is a good backing I am wondering if I take a compression strong wood like my walnut and glue it to the hickory with a few grain violations toward one end. Or would it be likely to fail. I don't mind trying just thought I'd ask if that was a clear no no or not. Thanks again for the trade btw! I mailed out my end yesterday
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Hickory backed walnut would be ok. Walnut isn't a good backing in any way and isn't compression strong wood. Pics would help, but violations are never good.
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Agree with Pearl. Walnut backing isn't a great choice.
If you made a walnut backing it would have to be PERFECT, preferably sawn from the outside of a log "under the bark" like a selfbow would have, and even then I dunno.......maybe on a very lightweight bow? Save the walnut to make nock overlays, recurve stiffening overlays on the belly, wedges, and handles.
But, take a look at your hickory boards again. Hickory is tough stuff, and if the grain is good you can make a flat sawn, quartersawn, or even rift sawn backing. Can you re-orient the board diagonally, and then again at a bias (with a jig, please, for safety) and get a backing out of it? Can you maybe get a perfect 38" piece and splice the backing in the handle?
I've seen bows backed with red oak or other "lesser" woods do fine, but the grain was really good, and walnut just seems to want to separate under tension, even in selfbows.
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I'll post a pic of the grain runoff when I get home later. Well blast I thought I read in tbb4 that walnut was good in compression, alright cool about the varying hickory "sawns" being okay I pretty much get my pick, a day like today where I am grading walnut and soft maple got me wondering , like these two 1/2"r's that would be headed to the chipper
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lumberman
what is a 1/2 r ?
willie
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Save that 1/2" er, walnut makes a good bow and a hickory backer will be fine, I do prefer maple but that's me. I built a nice birch backed bl walnut beautiful bow and that might be good barter on the trade page
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Just meaning 1/2 inch thick willie, yeah bubby I've got a basement with a lot of black walnut drying and dried already. We just switched to hickory actually so I'll see what I can spare from the chipper today
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Now all I can do is envision the bows in each one
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Oh, walnut IS pretty good in compression, at least for it's weight.
And, btw, black walnut is different wood. Botanically, it is more closely related to hickory and pecan, but the wood doesn't act like hickory, really either. I like it better than walnut, but I have only worked with either a couple or three times.
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Lumberman-
I am sure you have been asked this before, but do all those side slabs with the natural backs go to the chipper too?
willie
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Nope I have not been asked but the debarker generally tears the outer layer up some, I've been trying to keep an eye out because the chipper is ahead of me for slabs that are intact but they are more rare. Also I need to get a bow under my belt before I start loading my already wood filled basement with tree slabs
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If you have access to straight grained White Oak, it makes a great backing. Good with tropical woods like Ipe.
But IMO, bamboo takes it all. Don't have to worry about grain. Just plain it smooth and keep it thin.
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Lumber mam ... you grading on green chain?
It's been lotta years since my hardwood lumber mill days!
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Lumber mam ... you grading on green chain?
It's been lotta years since my hardwood lumber mill days!
Me too I spent several years pulling green chain, still have nightmares of haert and sinker sugar pine the width of the unit. Nonstop action right there
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Good to know about the white oak thanks; heck yeah bubby and Knoll!! Green chain is just a lovely place to work haha, I love it honestly, blessed and thankful
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I have seen a couple black walnut selfbows and they were pretty. I have never seen someone try it as a backing. Give it a go and let us know how it works.
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Well the only issue with me attempting it as a tester is that there are probably a lot of other factors as to how I break em that the wood can hardly be blamed for haha
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Green chain is just a lovely place to work haha, I love it honestly, blessed and thankful
and I thought you were one of those guys working a crayon at the planer.........my bad
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Yep I do a lot of scribbling willie, grader/dry kiln operator
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I once knew a guy who glued up a huge variety of woods he had in his wood shop and broke a bunch of bows before getting one to work. I'd give his name but he might still be around and he is tougher than me.
He burned through a bunch of wood but he learned a lot. Nothing wrong with trying and failing as long as you learn. Wear safety glasses :)
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I refuse to back anymore bows havn't from mid 90's.
I was taught IF YOU HAVE TO BACK YOUR BOW. It's no more a selfbow. Something you did cause'd your problem that your bow needs backed. Learn from the exsperance. Hav'nt backed a bow since the mid 90's. Except for snake skins. There just camo ,dos'nt help other way than that.
Nothing wrong with backing bow. I backed 20 bows. I just don't wast my time. I tackle the problem I don't cover it up.
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I don't think that if i am planning a backed bow and execute my design that I am covering up any problem. Usually you back a bow for performance, when i built my horn bow I used quality materials no problems to cover-up, there's more to primitive and wood bow building than selfbows
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So far I've been learning from my mistakes and the fact that they have resembled bows has been massively exciting haha, maybe I'll stop backing em after about 20 too but a hunting bow from the materials I have is what I am shooting for. Got the walnut glued on now to let it set
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That's it Lumber Man. Stay positive. :D