Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Around the Campfire => Topic started by: jayman448 on February 29, 2016, 11:33:50 am
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How do you make people understand why we hunt? I met someone last night who ended up tearin me a new one because i hunt. As far as she was concerned we just call eachother up and go "hey lets watch sonething die today". You and i know its nothing like that at all! But in the future, what are good arguements to have at hand to deter this kind of b.s. concept of harvesting game? What are your similar experiences/things youve learned from simular interactions
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Does she eat meat?
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Simple. Tell her how many times you don't tag game. How you study the animals so closely you know their habits. How much you hate anything that destroys their habitat or damages their population. Talk about how when you do make a kill it is an insanely happy moment but in the same respectful and thankful. I don't feel sad so I've never used that one, when I kill something I treat the moment like how I'd treat it once a friend dies, celebration of the life lived. The fact that some animals I've seen for years and to know what they've gone through I find it much better healthwise to eat them then that farm raised stuff. And I'm not just talking cows and chicken. A vegetarian eats no meat but still has no connection to the land. They don't take into account that the nutrients dumped on to their plants is enough to create an entire dead zone in the ocean. They don't see that everything is truly connected in the way a true hunter does. Hell, even those all super goody goody farms will kill animals or use some type of deterrent or fence to keep animals from their harvest. Which means they took the land from the animals, then killed or continuously chase them away, probably use irragated water which causes all sorts of trouble in creeks and rivers or they put up dams. That's a real nice way to ruin an ecosystem. They all use some sort of manure and a goody goody farm probably uses straight cow poop. Lovely chemical composition that once watered leaks into the soil so they have to add stuff to the soil to remain healthy or it dies and then nothing grows. And that crap(literally) gets into the watershed. Guess what fish need, balanced Ph levels. So then they still killing these streams. Land and water ecosystems are both now damaged all because these people prefer a salad over meat and want their salad all natural but won't use the effort to cultivate their own lettuce crop. Rooftop gardening would be way more common if these people really cared. We don't just kill animals. We connect with nature in a way no other person can possibly understand. Sad part though is today's hunter cares more about all this for the wrong reasons. He'll do it all and then kill that buck named giaganticrackasaurus and then post it to everywhere about his trophy buck he's been watching on trail camera and baiting for years. If you need bait to hunt then you aren't hunting, your harvesting. Nothing wrong with that, just don't call yourself a hunter because your still in the infancy of mankind gathering. The fact that I can trail a deer on dry ground, tell a fox track from a coyote, a cougar from a dog, a squirrel warning bark to a squirrel get out of here, a deer chewed leaf from a rodent, a coyote kill from a cougar kill, a rock turned over for bugs from a rock that naturally rolled down, a sapling that can become an arrow and a stone that can become an arrowhead, how long till sunset and which way is north day or night, where to find game and where to camp out of the way all gives credit to the connection we can hold with the land. So next time someone wants to call you a pycho killer for being a hunter, you ask if they can tell you what happens in a deer herd when the oldest buck dies wether from a gun, a bow or pack of coyotes. Most won't know, more should.
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The money spent on tags mostly goes to wildlife conservation. Wild meat is better for you than farm raised. Farm raised meat generally lives a far worse life than wild game. If she eats meat then she has no ground to talk. If she doesn't but does have pets that eat commercial pet food she has no ground to talk. If she wears leather she is also off base. Some people won't get it, or flat out refuse to get it.
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Honestly, if you have to "make" people understand anything I'd say it's a losing battle. Best thing to do is just respectfully disagree and if she pursues you to make an issue then that's her problem. Things live and die. That's just the nature of life and you didn't make the rules. I think of Pappy's quote..."If you have to ask you wouldn't understand." Probably a good fit here.
Did you see that extremely strange PETA commercial from the Superbowl? Extremism at work.
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My dad just rented the trailer to a family when they moved in my 13 year old daughter & I was cleaning some pheasants when Lucy grabbed one & started cleaning she steps on the wings & pulls by the legs the girl that just moved in started screaming that we were killers & murders then ran off crying.
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"hey lets watch sonething die today".
If someone has an attitude like that nothing you do is going to change their mind. If you're trying to get closer to her ;) ;) lie >:D
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Haha. Not tying to get closer... i think my woman would have my hide for that... (among other things.... >:D ;D ) no i just would like to have good points like this at the ready. Sure as shootin itll happrn again in my life time. And hiw better to protect our hunting rights than to have logical arguements to retaliate with
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Logical arguments don't work on emotional issues. If it's someone you have to deal with on a daily basis then you're probably better off proving that you are a nice person first. If she decides she likes you then maybe she'll try to understand you.
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×2what Parnell said , in reality people like that are to irrational to try and have a conversation about it they are right you are erong and facts, FACTS JUST GET IN THE WAY.
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i have talked to many people about hunting lately and for the most part its about the outdoors, saving money, primal nature and eating real meat not this hormone fed crap. Many fast food choke and pukes say that their meat is free from Steroids and antibiotics, and what is in the feed....????
Folks from the farm areas of America, why are they so healthy and happy.? They were raised on farm grown produce, meat and eggs etc.. :) And Their minds are still sharp at 75.
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I think there's something of an inferiority complex in these people, their getting a high off of telling us how bad we really are.
Lot's of people need to hate someone to make themselves feel superior.
It's kinda shocking but to many of these people the natural world is something you can visit once in a while but don't touch, better yet watch it on TV.
Kevin .
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She must prefer contract killing. ;D
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The one that gets me is "I'm a vegetarian/vegan because I can't take a life", I always ask them where do they get this non-living food. Is the life of that lettuce any less valuable than your own? Every harvest day is a holocaust to the plants....
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I think there's something of an inferiority complex in these people, their getting a high off of telling us how bad we really are.
Lot's of people need to hate someone to make themselves feel superior.
It's kinda shocking but to many of these people the natural world is something you can visit once in a while but don't touch, better yet watch it on TV.
Kevin .
I bet I could find a post just like this one on a vegan site. Only they would be talking about us. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Just because you or I don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong. I don't have a dog in this fight so it leaves me free to try and look at both sides. Like I said you can't argue an emotional issue.
This isn't particularly aimed at you Kevin, it was just an example Sorry
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She must prefer contract killing. ;D
Exactly. Have her Youtube a slaughter house video, hogs or cattle.
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Yeah, us hunters can get emotional over a hunt. I have to take pause and thank God, and the animal, for the life. Also the hard work that goes into a hunt, with a final success, it can be a very emotional and joyful experience, not to mention if we miss, or wound, there is some emotion there.
Logic rarely follows emotion. Emotion is rarely based on logic. Its best to keep away from that problem. Ask her straight up, are you wanting to only argue your point to me or is anything I say going to matter or change your mind? That will force her to admit her intentions and her own closed mindedness. Probably the best way to end that before it ever becomes an argument. You win.
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Awesome points! It's obvious how integral to our being it is from the passionate answers... I think there are too many people who think that they decide what's best for everyone else, trusting and worshiping their own rationale is what it is. Part of this post modern mindset is that we are so "advanced" as a race that we are above the base ( Natural!) ways of humanity. Humanity has not changed, life and death, killing and eating are not outdated. The brilliant Secretary of State to our current President said of Russia invading Ukraine that it was 20th century tactics in the 21rst century. Psh.. We can build our education and systems of governing but we cannot change our essence, foolish to believe otherwise, it can only weaken us .
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To be honest , you can't explain it, just as Steve said respectfully disagree and move on. I tell folks all the time I kill stuff, (not harvest) eat it and use what I can of the parts. I always respect the animal I kill but it was put here for us to use, agree or disagree that is the truth. If they like it fine if not I really don't care in the least. It's like auguring religion or politics , no one is going to win and it usually just gets ugly. Better at least for me to just say my piece and move on. ;) :) I know that's not much help but that is how I handle it. :) Believe it or not in most cases when they figure out I eat and use it and not just out to kill something they are OK with that even if they wouldn't do it ,they seem not to mind so much that I do. :) Of course it may be my attitude also when they see I really don't care if they like it or not. ;) :) :)
Pappy
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. . . is anything I say going to matter or change your mind? . . .
good thought ... wish my memory wasn't so $!*& poor!
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DC,
I've said before and I'll say it again I respect people and their opinions, I can respect an honest debate, that unfortunately is not what was described in Jayman's post.
Yes Jayman is looking for a logical argument to try and change the opinion of people who would attack us for who we are but you said it yourself " logical arguments do not work for emotional issues"
This lady had no interest in debate, all she wanted was to selfrighteously tell him what a bad human being he was.
The quote"everyone is entitled to their own opinion" I think is an unfortunate saying that only serves to divide us and cement us into differing camps. a better saying would be"everyone has an opinion",that would allow us to respect one another and still hold to our belief's, it would also allow us to debate respectfully and maybe change an opinion or two. The entitlement option leads to what we see today, people who think their belief is the ultimate truth and gives them the right to verbally attack anyone.
That said, if there was a misunderstanding that suggested that I was painting all non hunters black with a wide brush, I apologize for that misunderstanding I do have vegetarian and non hunting friends in my archery club after all who are nothing like the woman Jayman describes.
In the end I stand by my original statement,I think there's something of an inferiority complex in these people, their getting a high off of telling us how bad we really are.
Lot's of people need to hate someone to make themselves feel superior.
It's kinda shocking but to many of these people the natural world is something you can visit once in a while but don't touch, better yet watch it on TV.
Kevin .
I think it speaks an unspoken truth,and it was not disrespectful to vegans or those who hold differing opinions, it was disrespectful to the disrespectful and if I could rewrite the third line I would edit out the word "these" but it is a sad truth, to many people the natural world is not natural.
And that is my opinion.
DC,
I took no offense to you quoting me and it is always wise to try and understand both sides of an argument. Perhaps I could have written my first post better but I think you might have read more into it than I actually intended to say.
Kevin
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To answer your first question. You don't .
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Jayman, 10% of the people are anti hunting and 10% are hunters, You can't change either one, it is the 80% in the middle that you need to talk to because they are the ones who will eventually decide the future of hunting. Bob
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Nature allows us to hunt because it is part of the ecosystem, keeping the number of animals in balance. Now in some places the ecosystem is almost gone. We don't hunt in those places. We also do not hunt endangered spieces. When people who don't know think about hunting, they think about cruel trophy hunters, with no mercy and love against nature and people hunting for money. We are not like that. We respect nature and only hunt when nature allows us. We listen to Nature and respect it. We thank mother earth whenever we harvest a game. We are not like what people think. If only they knew...
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My own wife calls me a Bambi murderer. She hates the fact that I hunt. However, her and I came to an understanding many years ago. We've been married for 13 years now, with many more to come I'm sure. It boils down to respecting each other's individuality. In my past conversations with my wife and strangers as well, I simply bring up that point. I can respect them and their thoughts and emotions about it, if they can offer me the same. Then I kindly let them know that I have more respect, knowledge, and appreciation for the wild game that I hunt than most non hunters could dream of. They usually respond with how could you when you are killing them.
To me it's not about killing, it's about fitting into the natural environment, and part of that is me being a predator, in order to feed myself and others as well. After those points being made, I've never had anyone continue to argue. We've always agreed to disagree, and came to some form of mutual respect.
Tattoo Dave