Primitive Archer

Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: DC on February 13, 2016, 04:43:56 pm

Title: Fade advice please
Post by: DC on February 13, 2016, 04:43:56 pm
I'm thinking about the fade on this billet. On my previous bows I've made the fade long and gradual like I've shown in the picture. I've also drawn in a 2" fade as I imagine it. This is for my second attempt at a boo backed yew Rd. Is the 2" about right or should it be a bit longer?
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: bow101 on February 13, 2016, 05:03:09 pm
I would go longer thats my 2 bits worth, and you can always take material off the fades later but not add it on. 
One thing I learned in wood working always leave your work pieces Proud, weather its a curve cut, or rough length..     :)
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: osage outlaw on February 13, 2016, 05:20:48 pm
I make my fades 1.5" - 2" like the short line on your billet.  I cut them out a little oversize like Bow101 suggested and then use a rasp to get them down to where I want them.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: huisme on February 13, 2016, 05:52:14 pm
1.5" is my go to, if I file past that while forming the grip so be it :)
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PatM on February 13, 2016, 06:27:50 pm
Draw another line right between those two. That's your happy medium.  ;)
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 13, 2016, 07:21:40 pm
Just make them right, the rest is just something to talk about :)
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 13, 2016, 08:42:26 pm
I usually make them 1.5 inches. Jawge
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: bubbles on February 14, 2016, 02:24:39 am
I draw my layout for 2 inches but they always seem to end up at 3 because I get lazy rasping.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: Del the cat on February 14, 2016, 02:28:17 am
Just make them right, the rest is just something to talk about :)
You beat me to it...
Del
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: Dances with squirrels on February 14, 2016, 05:46:02 am
I go 1.5 to 2" on mine to start, but what each of us does on any specific bow should depend somewhat on handle shape, and may also depend on overall and working limb lengths. The shape of my handle already has it considerably thinner front to back where the grip ends than many other folks' bows, so we're navigating different terrain and I try to keep that in mind when offering advice.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 14, 2016, 07:56:03 am
The ONLY thing you need to know about fades. If the limb narrows it must deepen simultaneously. Hence the term "fade". You can make them 1.5-4" long if you want. Make them 8" long if you want. Just don't let any of them bend and add length to the bow limb accordingly.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PatM on February 14, 2016, 08:12:16 am
The ONLY thing you need to know about fades. If the limb narrows it must deepen simultaneously. Hence the term "fade". You can make them 1.5-4" long if you want. Make them 8" long if you want. Just don't let any of them bend and add length to the bow limb accordingly.

 Some fades must bend though but they are exceptions. A paddle bow or a Sudbury type are a couple.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 14, 2016, 08:20:26 am
Those were just 10000 year old accidents anyway. We dig up some bows from however many 1000 years ago and assume each is a perfect creation in design. Im sure they had hacks back then to :)
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PatM on February 14, 2016, 08:23:34 am
Right you are, sir.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: Steve Milbocker on February 14, 2016, 08:40:58 am
"Those were just 10000 year old accidents anyway. We dig up some bows from however many 1000 years ago and assume each is a perfect creation in design. Im sure they had hacks back then to :)"

I know there were hacks back then just look at some of the  the arrow heads you find. Some are works of art and some look like I made them:)
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 14, 2016, 08:48:58 am
Probably got myself into more trouble with the historians, but that's okay :)
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: DC on February 14, 2016, 01:22:15 pm
Just don't let any of them bend and add length to the bow limb accordingly.

Thanks PD :D. I'm having trouble understanding what I quoted. I was under the impression that no matter what length the purpose of fades was to gradually decrease the movement from limb to handle. In my mind that meant that halfway along the fade the movement was roughly cut in half.  You say no bend?? Also why wouldn't I want to add length to the limb?
Sorry for all the questions. I just have to understand how things work. It doesn't work for me that they just do :) :)
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 14, 2016, 01:28:14 pm
The gradual stopping is done in the limb prior to the fades with a thickness taper. I'm not sure a guy could get the bend to stop half way up a 2" fade. you'd have much better eyes than me. 
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: DC on February 14, 2016, 01:42:17 pm
Alright! The light came on. One more thing to keep in mind. Thanks
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: Dances with squirrels on February 14, 2016, 01:48:42 pm
They can flex into the fades/dips. I do it often. Whether, and how much that's possible depends some on design and construction methods. Bending beyond the flares though calls for quite sophisticated design and tillering. Luck within mistakes won't get us there with any degree of predictably.... though more primitive folks did it. That's incredible to me.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PatM on February 14, 2016, 02:28:37 pm
 Even a well executed fade is flexing to some degree. It takes an I-Beam through a handle to stop it from flexing at all, so you can appreciate how a fade has to be flexing.

   The best test is to take a straight through the handle bow with  what seem to be non-flexing fades and place a straight edge across the back of the handle  when the bow is strung. You will see daylight between the straight edge and the fade.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: Josh B on February 14, 2016, 03:01:06 pm
Not to disagree with the hacks point, BUT bend through the fades and handle designs do have their place.  Especially if your trying for a longer draw short bow with a wood that does better with more width than is practical for an arrow pass/handle.  You can narrow the handle area, tiller it to bend less than the wider limbs and still benefit with a little extra draw than if the limbs alone were working.  The fade area of course being the transition point from the heavier bending limbs to the flatter bending handle.  It's not easy to get right, but it does work.  Josh
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: Dances with squirrels on February 14, 2016, 03:54:42 pm
Yep. It does. 'work'.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: Dances with squirrels on February 14, 2016, 05:31:04 pm
Pat, some, including myself, would say a well executed fade 'should' be flexing... to some degree.

Why stop it from flexing at all?

I concur with what else you said.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PatM on February 14, 2016, 05:48:29 pm
Pat, some, including myself, would say a well executed fade 'should' be flexing... to some degree.

Why stop it from flexing at all?

I concur with what else you said.
I agree but I tend to limit it to incidental rather than getting too deliberate about it. The one downside is  that the necked in portion of a handle exposes the back edge to the increased potential for popping splinters right there.
   We've seen  more than a few bows on here that have crossed that tipping point.

 The wood choice or backing and grain orientation also play a role in that. What might hold together forever in a tangled grain wood can blow an edge splinter in a straight grain wood.
Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: PEARL DRUMS on February 15, 2016, 06:19:50 am
At least I got the winters snow dusted off your collective brains for a few hours :)

Title: Re: Fade advice please
Post by: BowEd on February 15, 2016, 07:22:32 am
A note I've seen here.As proof a fade does work to a degree I've seen bows lose a couple of pounds draw weight after carving the handle out[supposed to be a stiff handled bow] and after reaching draw weight and length of draw.I'm sure other fellas have too but it can surprise ya when you see it for the first time not expecting it.