Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badger on January 28, 2016, 11:37:27 am
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I don't do a lot of teaching but usually once or twice a year I will have someone that wants to learn and will usually start comming over to the house and build themselves a couple of bows. I actually prefer to work alone but I have gotten so much out of this craft that I feel priveledged to be able to pass it on now and then.
In most cases I like to walk them through at least one self bow and one hard backed bow, It usually works out to be about a 1/2 dozen bows before I kick them out of the nest. I have made a couple of really good friends doing this and consider teacihing a win, win situation. I have also learned a lot teaching, it never fails that one of my students will have been watching buildalongs here at PA and they tell me so and so does it this way. My first impulse when I hear that is to tell them if you like the way so and so does it then why don't you go find so and so and have him teach you how to make a bow. I fight my first impulse and hear them out and I will be dammed if I don't learn something every time.
As a bow builder I realize I have strong points and weak points. I have put the bulk of my energy into studying the behavior of the wood and designs and not enough energy into learning and practicing tecniques. As a teacher I realize my students are going to scrutinize everything I do, very aggravating but at the same time I know I have to be ready to step up to the plate when I put myself in that position. I have learned to go visit some of the buildalongs a day or two ahead of a student comming by if I know I will be buiding something outside my normal builds. You guys make me look good!
One of my favorite parts about teaching that goes hand in hand with my method of building is to be able to explain or at a very minimum offer a theory as to why we take all the steps we take or why we do things certain ways. There have been several occassions where I would be teaching a student something and realized I couldn't explain why I was doing something a certain way, it was just from experience. These are great teaching moments! I might spend the entire week, or until our next session figuring out how to explain the logic behind an action. Without fail I get more out of this than the student, it always deepens my own understanding and leaves me with that fresh feeling of accomplishment that got me into bow building in the first place.
I know a lot of you guys here teach, what are your thoughts on it?
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My two favorite types of guys to teach are the ones who want you to do all the work for them, and the ones that just dont listen no matter how many times you repeat yourself and tell them the same thing over n over....my best students have been women....go figure ::)
Other than those grievances yeah..i agree...teaching can be fun,exciting,and just as learning if not more for the one teaching....
One of my weaknesses in teaching is patience and understanding that they dont have the knowledge base i have,and that there just naive of the facts that we think as simple common know how...if ya wanna lose lots of hair come down to the classic at pappys and teach several at once amidst a crowd of other bow loving makers n beginners..lol.
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I will never teach another girl. I was trying to teach a lady how to use the spokeshave and she wasn't getting it. So I sat behind her on the bench and guided here hands over the wood. Tha got real awkward quick, she kept telling me to show her again LOL>
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I have only taught two other people how to make bows. One of them is my son in law, and now he teaches and helps me as well. I'm a lucky guy for sure.
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Some years ago I approached our local coucil who runs adult education classes to see if they where interested in me running bow making classes. To my suprise they where, they inteviewed me ..and more to my suprise once they met me, they took me serious and the classes quickly started up with great enthusiasm, in the woodwork department of the local high school....( it was weird to go back to that school though). At first there where too many applicants and we had to run extra classes... It was a very intense but rewarding experience.....Those classes ran for nearly 5 years...they even did articles in the local paper.
I agree with everything you said Badger..it was very rewarding , especialy when we went out for the day after the course was finnished to test out the bows... It was amazing to see how happy they where to shoot the bows they had made....Grown men reverted back to childhood and had the time of their lives running around with their freshly made bows... This was very satisfying and as you said I never failed to learn as much or more as they did.
Our small local county here in Wales must have over a thousand self bows in circulation that wouldnt have existed without these classes...That is also a satisfying thing for me to know. .I know a lot of those guys went on to keep making and shooting bows..
.A lot of the inspiration and knowledge to make all that happen definnately came from all you Primive Archer bowyers...!!! so thanks to all of you for that...
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I usually do more instructing when I go to an event than working on my own stuff. I really enjoy getting people started. Sometimes I end up learning how to be patient.
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I will never teach another girl. I was trying to teach a lady how to use the spokeshave and she wasn't getting it. So I sat behind her on the bench and guided here hands over the wood. Tha got real awkward quick, she kept telling me to show her again LOL>
At least it wasnt a guy.
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Dragonman, lucky for you, folks in Wales are not like they are here in the States. We could never get away with weapons in the school.
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I dont no any thing about teaching but I know a lot about being a student I know you can read every book watch every utube video out there , & ask every elementre question concievable & still not pull it togeather with out help from some of you guys but when you have some body guiding you , you learn more than all the books & vids I recently made my first sinew bow & if Brad2010 wasent guiding me I probably would have ended up with a bow with exsesive set & poor tiller but instead ended up with a sweet shooting hunting bow , I just wanted to let you guys know that students of the craft appreciate all the guidence.
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Dragonman, lucky for you, folks in Wales are not like they are here in the States. We could never get away with weapons in the school.
Don't be surprised about weapons in school. Here in Ky we started the NASP PROGRAM which is the fastest growing sport in schools in the U.S. I am talking about archery by the way. We broke the genius book of the largest in door archery tournament in the world 2 yrs ago in KY WITH OVER 9000 kids shooting arrows. That's a rush. A lot of colleges give these kids scolorships to shoot long bows and recurves and now we received a invite to bring our son for tryouts in trap shooting so he is excited.
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I've taught this stuff to dozens of folks... had 10-15 guys at my place on many occasions. That's too many cuz all I get done is running from one guy to the next, putting out fires. 4 or 5 guys is better.
I learn a lot by teaching. It forces you to not only know how to do something, but you need to know and be able to explain exactly why.
I won't teach just anyone. They have to show some initiative. I like them to have at least read a book on bow making so they have a basic understanding of the idea and terms... and I have refused to help a few who wouldn't do so much as read a single paragraph. Some I've found want things handed to them, but they're the exception. Most guys do well.
It's rewarding to see those you taught teaching others.
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Dragonman, lucky for you, folks in Wales are not like they are here in the States. We could never get away with weapons in the school.
Don't be surprised about weapons in school. Here in Ky we started the NASP PROGRAM which is the fastest growing sport in schools in the U.S. I am talking about archery by the way. We broke the genius book of the largest in door archery tournament in the world 2 yrs ago in KY WITH OVER 9000 kids shooting arrows. That's a rush. A lot of colleges give these kids scolorships to shoot long bows and recurves and now we received a invite to bring our son for tryouts in trap shooting so he is excited.
Well maybe i should talk to my college.
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Steve,I wish you weren't so far away because I would love to spend some time with you making a bow or two.It's probably a good thing for you I'm not I'd probably drive you crazy :) The Osage you built me several years ago is one of the finest shooting bows I've ever owned,glass or wood. I could tell it was special after the first arrow. I study it quite a bit and I'd be scared to death trying to make one to the dimensions you have proven to work so well. It is one of my prized possessions.
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A lot of primitive shoots I go to I always try to bring a bow that's almost finished or a blank that would just be underweight and find a kid who needs one. I enjoy helping kids because I had no help when I was one except for the few books and primitive Archer right when it came out in the beginning. For the most part always had great luck working with kids because they listen and they ask questions. Have not had many great experience with adults they seem to be more hard headed. I love having debates but hate having debates in the middle of someone asking me for help. There is also a big difference between someone who wants to make a bow and someone who wants to learn how to make bows. You can usually tell the difference right in the beginning
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I'm proud to say that I've taught a whole bunch of people how to make bows. I've been offered money for classes but, wouldn't accept. I have accepted a 6-pack of beer or two to share. :o ;D If you want to build a bow, just come find me. I'll teach you. Your wood or mine (which I do sell or trade), doesn't matter. Gary Davis did that for me, well over twenty years ago. I traveled to shoots with him way back when, teaching the craft. We discovered quickly that we too learned a lot from the "students" whether they'd built a few previously or were new at the craft. We learned from 8-year old Cub Scouts, we learned from women and from grown men. Each A lot of years have passed, in a short amount of time. A lot of bows were made; a lot of smiles on faces.
Like anything, there are some that are more challenging than others but the rewards are priceless in the end. I'm not certain who originally coined the phrase, "Passing it On" but for me, that's what it is and has been for quite a while.
Still Learnin'....
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Matt, I have watched you teach, you are very good at it.
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Matt, I have watched you teach, you are very good at it.
He certainly is and has unbelievable patience. Most of the shoots I go to are in Michigan and it is unbelievable how many people say Matt got them going. My hat goes off to you sir!
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I'm proud to say that I've taught a whole bunch of people how to make bows. I've been offered money for classes but, wouldn't accept. I have accepted a 6-pack of beer or two to share. :o ;D If you want to build a bow, just come find me. I'll teach you. Your wood or mine (which I do sell or trade), doesn't matter. Gary Davis did that for me, well over twenty years ago. I traveled to shoots with him way back when, teaching the craft. We discovered quickly that we too learned a lot from the "students" whether they'd built a few previously or were new at the craft. We learned from 8-year old Cub Scouts, we learned from women and from grown men. Each A lot of years have passed, in a short amount of time. A lot of bows were made; a lot of smiles on faces.
Like anything, there are some that are more challenging than others but the rewards are priceless in the end. I'm not certain who originally coined the phrase, "Passing it On" but for me, that's what it is and has been for quite a while.
Still Learnin'....
That may help explain the overwhelmingly HUGE amount of luck you seem to have at the raffle table during the Classic! When you build up a massively positive Karma account like that, the Universe just has to payout some time eventually!
OneBow
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I ain't a good teacher but love trying!
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From the other side, I had the good fortune to be guided while building my first stave bow by many of the folks posting in this thread. For anyone who's working on their own and wants to get some guidance, you can do a lot worse than going to some meets and work along side the folks there. Everyone has something to teach you. Just being there and watching them work is an amazing time.
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Only passed on what i have learned over the last 3 years to 6 people so far. A family of 4 - They have not yet finished but so far so good, pretty lucky with this lot mum and dad know wood and how to use the tools and the boys are well behaved but understandably eager to skip to the end always asking, "can we soot them now". i keep telling them that good bows are made patiently then they huff and get on enjoying the next bit. its been challenging to keep them engaged on the task at hand, i will probably use a design that is accomplished quicker like a stink bow instead of a flat bow next time.
one 18 year old who had made a bow before, making all the same mistakes i did with my first bendy stick, this felt good to have some common ground and a base to work from. once he finished the nice elm stave (i cringed at giving him at first, seeing his previous attempt) it was very much his stick and i was glad i took the chance, he got it to desired weight and draw even had time to steam some reflex in the tips (everyone loves a bit of steamy action)
the second person i helped make a bow was a 14 year old lad at a sweet woody festival in Oakhampton in Devon run by friends called Hedgcation. i was asked to run a workshop, only having limited time, wood and tools at this point i decided to say yes to the first person that asked after seeing my bows on the stand. This was a great success for joe and myself both learning a tone. the only draw back was all the other people i had to say no to and ended up collecting sticks form the wood and making hazel whip bows for nearly every kid on sight. this year i want to try the green wood survival bows described in the tbb with a group.
Also this year i have been invited to run a couple of courses with a larger groups (5-6 at a time) at a friends newly established woodland workshop, this i am feeling pretty apprehensive about having never taught paying customers or large groups. Also not having a lot of experience teaching and have only been making bows for the last 3 years (88 bows at the last count) i often worry i am not qualified, but i suppose you have to start some were. all i know is i love making bows out of wood plus everything that goes along with it and want to help people find a love for it themselves. Any advice from you experienced bowyer teachers to a novice would be gratefully received
Many thanks
P.s
i am building a new web sight too
www.primitivearchery.co.uk
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88 bows is a lot of bows, especially if you were putting your all into them. Thats plenty enough experience to teach.
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Cool i should chill out a bit. i recon i have broke or failed at least 70% of what i have made. once i get a camera of my own i will post some of the successes . i have been lucky to have a place to live in my van and a workshop for free, not to mention a very patient girl so ye am able to put my all into it. Thanks to all the ineradicable inspiration from everyone here.
Not sure what you will think about my quiver Badger :-[
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I've taught to large groups as well and it is draining. A small handful is about right.
I've offered to teach the process from start to finish to the younger generation of a local aboriginal community. I want to show them which trees to look for in the forest, how to select the best specimen, the harvesting and so on.
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I don't mind giving someone a little help, if they are stuck at a certain point in the bowmaking process, but I just don't want spoon feed someone through the whole process.
I really feel, in any field someone who wants to learn should learn the why as well as the how of the process, and should make as much effort to educate themselves and experiment, before expecting everything laid out for them on a platter. Make some investment skill, time wise, and monetarily in the process, and I 'm more likely to want to lend a hand. Especially in the age of the internet its never been easier to research and educate yourself.
That being said maybe I don't have the best personality type for selfless teaching, and I do admire those who choose to do this type of thing and do it well. I do admit what an honour it would be to be taught by a master like Badger. They are some really fortunate guys.
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Hamish I agree with you, I have had the best luck working with guys who have already started in most cases or at least have been following and reading for a while. I can't tell you how many guys have quit at the first blister. I try to start them off on something hard to test their resolve before I invest too much time. A lot of guys want you to build it for them.
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Yep, they want to do minimal work, with minimal invested of themselves as far as understanding and developing skills, and just want the shortest, quickest route to be able to tell folks 'check out this bow I made. Cool huh.'
I like to help guys who have tried on their own a few times first, and are maybe having some difficulty but are still committed. Those guys really pay attention and soak it up like a dry sponge.
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I really enjoy teachin folk how to make bows. As said, i learn something EVERY time... Im almost always amazed and sometimes dismayed(lol) that their bows come out better than any i make for myself 👍😄..... Brian
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I have only done a few bow builds with students. Built three at my get together as build alongs. I usualy do one end and student does the other. I can only teach by example I guess. I had to wait till I got about a 100 or so before I felt I new enough to teach anything. You are right about teaching more than one at a time Bad Chris. I was tired after the week at my get together . Arvin
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I have only taught one group ob about a dozen home-schooled kids. They were great. Paid attention and worked hard all day long. One of them already had one bow to his credit. That was a lot of fun for me and the kids.
I have worked with several men to make a bow, more of a demonstration than a lesson.
I admit, I have a much greater affinity for people who read the classic books from the late 1800s to the 1950s and learn to make bows without a teacher. Probably because that's how I learned and because books and writing are very important to me.
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Teaching well is an art. I've been lucky to cross paths with a number of these artists.
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I have done quite a lot over the years ,but I like it best 1 on 1or2 if possible. We have done several boy scout groups. It funny with them. You have about half that want to learn and do really well at it, then some that just can't seem to get it no matter how hard you try and then always a few that really don't want to be there, just there for a patch or something. :)
Pappy
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Pappy, I did a group of cub scouts and a group of boy scouts. The cub scouts I asked if they could have an adult with them to assist them. All the kids ended up playing soccer and their fathers learned how to make a bow. The boy scouts were a little better and it ended up just letting them do some rasping on the tiller.
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Ya that is what we do with a lot of them, they have a really hard time for some reason with the scrapper, you can show them and show them but they would have to work for months to get enough wood off to do any good.[not all but most of them] We usually use blanks that are pretty close to start. We will start off with a log/split it/ get it to a good back/lay the bow out/rough it out and then fine tune to the blank stage. We do that with 1 log and all the boys watching and asking any questions they have along with some hands on as we move along. We do this as a demo on Friday evening usually to show them at least how we got to where the blank they are starting with got to that point. Then we let them draw numbers and pick there blank. It's fun and some of them learn a lot , some will come back the next year with the bow finished and shooting it well ,some come back with it just like it was when they left. We figure if we can reach just 1 or 2 that's good enough for the effort. :)
Pappy
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I'm not a good teacher unless you have at least a bit of experience, or knowledge. I tend to drop a tid bit and walk away. Then come back later to see how it went. I'm not good an staring over shoulders for hours explaining every detail and why. Hell, I don't even know why I do half of what I do. I just do what has worked for me and I repeat it.
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That's why I like 1 on 1 I try to explain why. Had some pretty bad experiences just dropping a tid bit and coming back later to see how it went. :-\ ;) :)
Pappy
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I have tried to teach about a dozen folk how to make a bow, maybe more. Some folk just aren't crafty and all the instruction you give them rolls off like water off a duck's back and they never finish a bow.
Some students prefer close up, one on one instruction, these guys are always hard workers, great guys to be around but hesitant to move forward on their own.
Then there is the best student; one that has already attempted to make a bow before they come to see you, who works tirelessly, catches the bow making bug, starts stockpiling bow wood, and keeps cranking them out out long after you teach them what you know.
I have only had two of these students, we have become good friends.
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I had this big time prosecuting attorney contact me one time to learn how to make a bow. He was on medical leave from work. He was very knowledgeable on archery history and wanted to make an English longbow. He was a fast learner and hard worker but asked a lot of questions, he really kept me on my p's and q's.
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One of the first years we done the selfbow challenge at the Classic I wanted GregB , one I had taught to help in the shop, he said he didn't think he was good enough or knew enough to teach someone else, I told him give it a try and see how it goes, he soon found with all the questions he knew WAYYYYYYYYYY more than he thought he did. I love folks to ask questions. :)
Pappy
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I've had a few come to my house over the years. Only one person has continued making bows.
I teach them and they do it; must do very well.
I only teach them what I do regularly.
So I don't teach them how to make center shot selfbows.
Jawge
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I too have tried to be a crusader of sorts to primitive archery locally here teaching people.Moving here 12 years ago I wanted to get to know like minded people.The problem I have is that I get an interested few at a time and first they want to buy a bow.So I say no why dont' you come on over and we'll build you one.Most times I don't see them again.They are always amazed by function of one and the results from hunting etc. but most times don't want to put the work into making a bow.The best place like said is to go to a bow making gathering and be around people that want to make a bow.It has to be a process of attraction rather than promotion.Takes a lot of patience to teach and a person learns a lot about themselves in the process.
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I've helped every year I've been to the Classic with the Selfbow Challenge and enjoyed it...generally. The year we had 14 boy scouts surprise us over the 15 or so regular sign-ups was a challenge. At first it was like teaching slugs but once the bows started bending the attitudes changes. we even had one young girl that was with the boy scouts and she was the most interested, and the most aware of the process.
I thing we had 35 or so successful bows built that weekend.
I've taught a few others, some get it but many don't. Something just doesn't compute with some folks.
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People tell me I'm a natural teacher. I've taught as good handful, and I love doing it. I also learn a lot, usually about HOW to explain what is happening and why we do it, and in helping people who don't see the end from the beginning yet to find step by steps methods not to screw up until they do.
I have a serious case of (diagnosed) adult ADD, and I have a problem finishing bows. I love the learning, the innovation, the process, and the discoveries WAY more than I love OWNING a bow. (What would I do with the 80+ bows I have made anyway?), So I often focus on one thing when making a bow, like a new tool, form, technique, etc.. and I rarely make the same bow twice, or even use the same method/tools twice, exactly. Because of this, I break a lot of bows or ruin them early (I wonder why people say you can't to thus and such?.....CRACK!, Oh, THAT'S why! Interesting.) But, when I'm TEACHING someone, I almost always finish a good quality bow with them, because I am helping THEM not rush ahead, helping them learn the techniques, and I don't wander off in the Curiousityland as much.
The main reason I still read and post on forums, besides the good company, is there is always a new guy to help talk through some aspect they are working through, and ILOVE helping them. Then I love watching them making bows as well as I do after a year or two, and passing out solid advice to the next guy....
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I will never teach another girl. I was trying to teach a lady how to use the spokeshave and she wasn't getting it. So I sat behind her on the bench and guided here hands over the wood. Tha got real awkward quick, she kept telling me to show her again LOL>
"awkward". Right.
One other thing is that so many people who want to try it are really young, and it is hard to be patient.
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Love it when there comes someone that has that deep deep internal attraction to doing things themselves/has the drive and need to solve problems.Not just a passing fad.Time shows that.
I liked to bring a point up here without getting on my soapbox too much about the local amish here.Most I've met have that do it yourself attitude of problem solving and an open learning attitude.If they could be let to go to college the sky is the limit I'd say.It's how they are raised most times.Refreshing to be around.These times nowadays seems like the attitude most times is to buy your way out or pay someone to solve a problem.
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I love to teach,,, as stated helps keep your brain fresh and your knowledge at you your finger tips to share,, :)
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I enjoy teaching beginners and offering to help out where I can. It does get frustrating at times when someone just refuses to listen, but I can be like that with things too. I have gained a ton of experience with how and why wood does what it does by watching and helping others. When I got started, lots of people helped me and I want to pay it forward. Its especially exciting when you get that one person who really gets into it and is bitten by the bug.
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Great thread... I generally find that those who make the effort to come and visit will be keen to learn and be a pleasure to have around.
Generally I've found I've got a great buzz from helping and also had loads of good feed back and met people who have got in touch having followed my Bowyers Diary.
Most frustrating is giving staves to wannabe bowyers who then never touch them... if I'd made 'em pay maybe they'd have valued the wood more ::)... but that's just a few.
I love the have a go days and shows where I take my shave horse, it always get plenty of interest ... and there is no truth in the rumour that I spend most time with the prettiest young Moms. :laugh:
Biggest buzz was getting invited to the classic of course and seein' all you guys making bows and seein' how you did it, a pleasure and a privilege.
Kudos to all who pass it on.
Del
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One thing I usually do is start them on a board bow, then a wood backed bow then a stave bow. Without fail they want to do one of those multi lam bows that look like glass bows. I hate doing those but usually give in and help them.
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I enjoy teaching or demonstrating and answering people's questions. I'm comfortable doing it and guess it comes from having karate schools for at least 30 years. Several people have come over and spent a day or the weekend at my house and most of the time they went home with a shooting bow or the knowledge to finish the one they had started. It is really rewarding to watch someone start in the morning and shooting arrows before dark.
But, I sure hate people that will ask a question about a certain problem and before I can show them how to fix it they are telling me how to do it the way they saw it on YouTube or the book they read. Kind of makes me think I'm wasting my time.
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But, I sure hate people that will ask a question about a certain problem and before I can show them how to fix it they are telling me how to do it the way they saw it on YouTube or the book they read. Kind of makes me think I'm wasting my time.
Yup, they drive me nuts... I tend to switch off when they do that.
Del
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I won't make a bow for a wheelie guy or offer to teach them to make their own bow, it would wasted effort because they will always transition back to wheels.
I state up front that I only teach people that are strictly traditional archers and don't have any wheels in the house. I found out early on that wheelie guys view traditional bows as a novelty and as not a serious equipment.
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Until recently I held on to hopes that I would be able to get a wood bow builders club going in my area. We do have a group that used to meet informaly at a range once or twice a month. My plan was that if I could get a few guys going it would hopefully grow as they got a few guys going taking the pressure of me as being the sole trainer.
I still think it would work if I could find a decent place but with land going for about 2 million dollars and acre I am starting to realize it just aint gonna happen.
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When I first started making bows I had 5 or 6 friends show interest. Now, a couple years later there's 4 or 5 half finished bows in the corner. Some of my nicest and cleanest staves too...I'd like to take them back, but on the off chance they ever want to finish it it'll be there.
Now I have 2 friends working on bows, both guys have come with me up the mountain and hauled down some logs.
I do enjoy teaching willing ears, but I'm so obsessive about tiller and they way I like things to be, I think it can make the process look way more complicated than it is.
I'm currently talking with a local archery school about doing some small classes.
We'll see!
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I've been teaching at the UofO craft center for about 3 years, and a class of 7 always fills up. Any more and I think it would be too hectic. There is definitely a lot of interest, but you get a pretty wide range of folks, some of whom just want a bow and don't want to put in the work. My students are students with busy lives, but I'm amazed at how many of them don't come back to finish their bows. The ones who do put in the extra time and finish help me keep wanting to do it. I also teach for my Tribe, but I've had trouble finding interest/keeping a consistent schedule of work times. Most people just want to have a 'real' bow to hang on their wall unfortunately, and I have a hard time wanting to give good staves to people who I know don't want to shoot. Should do a wall hanger class with 2x4's or something. I've also got a corner of my garage that has quite a few 'friend staves' that were started and most likely won't become bows this decade, but I've got at least one good buddy that keeps coming over and chipping away for an hour here and there. This art is such a big part of my life, I enjoy teaching, and it's worth a few lost hairs to pass on the knowledge. Knowledge I wouldn't have if not for all of the people who are a part of this Primitive Archer community, and a lot of firewood >:D.
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Besides the people you guys have been able to teach in person, I'd add the hundreds or thousands of novices you've helped via this forum. I have all the Bowyer's Bibles, The Bent Stick, Hunting the Osage Bow, etc. plus a few bow building videos. When I'm planning a bow or working through some problem with it, this is the first and best place for me to get advice. I've made 30 or so bows over the last 3 years, love bow making and have you guys to thank for sharing your experience on here (and over on TG as well).
I'm getting close to retirement and am hoping to get involved in some type of traditional archery program for kids in my community after I retire. Maybe not on the bow making process, because I don't know if I have the patience to do it. But, who knows? Thanks again to you guys who do.
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Wizardgoat, same thing here. I have a "friends corner" where I keep partially completely staves that were started by friends of mine. I wrote their names on them so I could tell who they belong to. They've been there for years.
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A few years ago I had a high school senior contact me about making a wood bow. This was going to be for his senior project. He didn't have transportation so I drove the 40 miles to his home. I brought tools for him to use and gave him a seasoned stave. For a few hours each trip I'd tell him what to do and assist him as he worked. He had no experience with tools of any kind. All of the tools were left with him with the expectation that he would work on the bow even while I wasn't there and he had my phone number if he needed help between my visits. After my final visit he was supposed to complete the bow and turn his senior project in. I don't know if he ever did, I never heard a word from him and haven't since. No thank you or even a kiss my...! This kid was probably my worst student but I was more surprised by his parents. They knew the effort I put in and the tools and materials I gave him and I never heard from them either.
Most other students I've had at least appreciated the effort even if they decided bow making wasn't for them.
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yes the good the bad and the ugly, have to concentrate on the positive so you don't go crazy,,I am lucky, the last person I taught was a EMT and traditional archer, that was about 5 years ago,, he is retired and mentors youth programs and teaches bow making as well as being a certified archery instructor,,,and hunter safety instructor,, he teaches at some Pueblo's and the kids like the wood bows,, I think it is great when the kids see where bows come from,, or how they started :)
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I know the feeling Pat; I gave a bow, arrows and shooting instructions to a high school nephew of a friend who said he wanted to put up his wheels. He agreed if he decided traditional archery wasn't for him he was to bring my equipment back so I could pass it on to someone else.
Years passed, I heard he went back to wheels but didn't hold up to his end of the bargain. He is long gone along with my equipment.
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By profession, I'm an English and History teacher; I've also spent time as a JNCO in the Army, so am pretty comfortable being in front of a group of people teaching/instructing them.
Informally, I have taught both a few kids and some adults how to make a self-bow from a selected plank.
Small groups are better - and scrounging enough tools and suitable planks together for more than a few at a time is a challenge - and it's interesting watching the rates of progress at certain steps speed up and slow down.
I'd love to say I'm all altruistic and do it for free, but I don't, and do think that a keener, more receptive breed of student self-selects if they're prepared to pay a modest sum for the experience, and I'm compelled to offer the most attentive and professional tuition I can, too.
My own journey was fuelled by a huge amount of reading to try and understand the basic principles and then having a go to apply them - there's nobody locally that I knew of to learn from.
I'm a relative beginner and a rank amateur still, but I can at least offer my own ideas about why I do things the way I do, without being dogmatic and believing that mine's the only successful way. Being asked "why?" and "how?" by neophytes challenges me to examine, critique, and maybe even change my own techniques and theories. I enjoy that, and learn from it.
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I have taught bow-making to several groups over the last two years. It is a lot of work, but I get a lot out of it.
I just finished up a workshop with six guys this last weekend. It was a great group and all walked away with respectable bows.
Like Cadet, I find that charging a fee helps weed out the riff raff. For some of the local guys that have an interest, but not the time and money to take a class, I find that bow wood and instruction is great currency when I need a hand with a project around the shop.
I enjoy teaching and haven't had my patience really tested yet, but boy it is hard to watch beginners hacking away at beautiful staves. Eventually they get the feel for the drawknife and everything is ok, but it hurts a little to see a clean piece of yew looking like a washboard.
I discovered this last class that when folks are sitting idle, such as when there bow is cooling in the form or between coats of finish, to hand them a stick for a kids bow. I had a couple of students who got really into these as a side project. I have always thought that if time allowed, complete beginners should start with a kids bow. Simply take a little stick and make it bend evenly.
Also, I invested in 6 of Keenan's Stave Masters for teaching. I cant imagine doing it without them now.
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/IMG_8612_zps1nkvym9w.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/IMG_8612_zps1nkvym9w.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/IMG_8406_zpstubtvvnt.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/IMG_8406_zpstubtvvnt.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/IMG_8410_zpsrg42rees.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/IMG_8410_zpsrg42rees.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/IMG_8500_zpseu0lubtz.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/IMG_8500_zpseu0lubtz.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/IMG_8415_zpseoa3dg2b.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/IMG_8415_zpseoa3dg2b.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/IMG_8539_zpssswucpsm.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/IMG_8539_zpssswucpsm.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/IMG_8520_zpsmfaue1cr.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/IMG_8520_zpsmfaue1cr.jpg.html)
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I love the picture of the guy with the handsaw ;D ;D Unless you have a clue what is going on that would really make you wonder.
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I just can't help thinking you guys are better than me. More charitable, helpful, and patient. Its one thing helping some kids discover the joys of archery and making bows(that is something really primal), even I can't resist helping out a kid occasionally, seeing the joy on their face.
Its quite another thing teaching adults, for free especially when they have a well paid job.
What other person with a highly skilled job can you go up to get them to demonstrate hard earned trade secrets for free? No one would go up to a Dr, a lawyer, mechanic, plumber or electrician and expect to get free advice, education, or service without a reasonable remuneration.
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Well, I'm curious, what the heck is doing with the saw?
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Well, I'm curious, what the heck is doing with the saw?
The back of a saw makes a fine, albeit unwieldy, scraper. Most of my scrapers are made of old saw blades.
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I have given many classes this ten last years and it has become part of my job (beside forging).
Nevertheless I still enjoy it every time when I can turn bow newbies into addictied bowywers and archers :D
The only annoying guys are the already mentioned "knowitall" type of persons. Tipically they are masculin and not the youngest ;D But they are not that numerous and the great most of the scholars are very, very nice people.
regards,
gian-luca
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How long does it take for you guys to get a beginner into a shootable bow? I've had a few guys come by and we've done some hickory board bows, but it seemed to take a dauntingly long time to get them from board to shootable bow. Around 5 or 6, four hour sessions to get them shooting.
A big part is them learning to use the tools effectively, but I feel like I could have knocked quite a bit of time off if werent shooting for a specific weight and been a bit more generous with the roughing out part.
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bubbles I usually figure on 2 days if they are new and start with a somewhat roughed out stave. My problem is after that my patients runs thin and I usually take over and show them how to scrape. ;) ;D ;D I am truly not a very good teacher, I am more, watch this and repeat. :) ;) I am much better 1 on 1 , when I get several I always try and keep the ones that just don't get it caught up with the ones that do and the slow ones usually don't learn much. :-\
Pappy
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bubbles I usually figure on 2 days if they are new and start with a somewhat roughed out stave. My problem is after that my patients runs thin and I usually take over and show them how to scrape. ;) ;D ;D I am truly not a very good teacher, I am more, watch this and repeat. :) ;) I am much better 1 on 1 , when I get several I always try and keep the ones that just don't get it caught up with the ones that do and the slow ones usually don't learn much. :-\
Pappy
We are pretty much the same in this Mark. I don't care for large groups mainly because I'm not a group person
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I don't know about "altruistic" but I've ruined other hobbies by becoming pro.
So I am happy to report that I am an amateur bowyer. I've never charged for a bow and am careful who I give them to.
I don't do groups. Too complicated.
Having said that be careful who you teach. Set ground rules.
Kids have to have their parents around. Period.
Adults males are fine. For young women though, my wife is around. I have to say that I have never taught a lady bow making.
Jawge