Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Badly Bent on December 25, 2015, 11:02:33 am
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Merry Christmas everyone hope your day is merry and bright.
I'm thinking I may be in the shop finishing the tiller on this bow tomorrow and looking for some thoughts from others on the tiller before I take it out to full draw. I'm making this one for the guy who made it possible for me to get a truck load of osage and hackberry at a construction site last year, this is the first bow from that wood harvest. He's a compound shooter so I thought this style of bow might be the most forgiving of a shooter for a possible convert. I'm estimating he will have a 27"-28" draw.
Specs as the bow currently sits;
-sizable propellor twist mostly removed with dry heat but no heat treating done at this point
-approx. 2.5" of reflex was added and currently holding about 1.25" (tips in front of handle)
-deep handle flatbow design with a cut in shelf
- 64" ntn and currently at 19.9 oz. mass weight
-only drawn to 22" so far and feels around 45# @ 22" (the goal is around 50# at 27")
- braced photo is at a low brace, probably about an inch short of what full brace height will be
Any suggestions on the tiller of this bow and whether you would heat treat or any other tips are welcome.
Thanks fellas.
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drawn to 22" (tiller check)
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I like that type of tiller on a bow. Not absolute perfection in the tiller but plenty good enough. I think the bow will shoot great. I could be wrong but I find bows with just slight differences in upper and lower limb tillers seem to not have any handshock. Any time I get the " perfect" tiller I can feel a little "kick" in the bow. The ballance looks good.
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Is the bow beginning to bend at the end of the fades?
Looks a bit stiff there. Other than that...looks really good. Jawge
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I'm liking the second draw pic better than the top Greg, maybe a couple scrapes mid out but thats all, have you put any arrows thru it yet if if feels good I'd strech her out
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Thanks for the response Badger, I'm never sure how even I have my limbs bending relative to each other. The top limb is around 1-1/8" longer than the bottom and right now the top limb has just under 1/8" positive tiller compare to bottom. There is a natural deflex/kink about 10" below the handle that I think makes the measurement read closer than it might actually be.
I'm curious to know if you think the mass weight is in an acceptable range for this bow.
George, I'm not sure it is bending into the fades yet, I have a hard time judging that. I tiller with the bow drawn by hand and not on a tree so I can't really see subtle limb movements even when looking in the mirror. Thanks for suggesting this, I was thinking I could get it working a bit more there.
Bub, it still has a bit of prop twist with each limb twisting slightly in opposite directions, I try to average it out by viewing drawn photos from both sides. I put a hand full of arrows through it at 20" draw and 47# pull and the hand shock was nasty. I worked on the tiller more and got it out to 22" and about 45# at that draw length and it tamed the shock down. Still a little more thump in it than I find acceptable, but could be because I still had it braced a little low.
My next step is to sand the belly and edges smooth and maybe do a bit of heat treating. Sounds like maybe I should stay away from mid limbs and remove a bit at a time from outers and fades to get a few more inches of draw. Then see how it shoots before taking it to target weight and full draw.
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I would figure about 19 to 20 oz for that bow so I would say you are right on.
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I think your outers need to move more. I would temper and put more reflex in out to tip >:D I think that would also help with midlimb set
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the unbraced profile is pretty good,, so it must be bending pretty even,, if it shoots good and is not shifting,, seems to be a nice bow
some of the other guys see some things and their suggestions are great,, really hard for me to see the fine points without holding the bow in person,,,, congrats on a nice bow,, to me seems like the left limb ( bottom)has a bit of reflex on the outer and that may be making it seem stiff in the draw pics :)
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Greg t o me it seems flat at about the 2/3rds out mark on both limbs and is starting to go weak in that dip below the handle so be carefull with it
almost there ,it will soon be flinging arrows
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I like the tiller so far. I think the same as Jawge. Get it working more in the fades the last few inches. I say that hesitantly until @ 24" of draw and further as I could change my mind.
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I like it.
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Looks good!the stave has a far bit of character as long as the limbs are holding their shape i'd say I like it also!
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I don't see anything I would change Greg.
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Looks good to me!
DBar
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Thanks for the insights guys, I'm hoping to get a kitchen pass today to get in the shop and work on this one later.
Paul, I know you like your heat gun buddy. >:D If I can get this one evened out I may just heat in a tad more reflex before I draw it out further.
Brad, I know what you mean about the difference between holding the bow in hand and viewing a photo, hard to judge the feel
from a pic. That bottom limb has a bit of a concave back in the last 12" and is already thinned more than the top, it may have to show more stiff than the top when the bow is finished.
Guy, The belly has some evening out to address with some sandpaper to remove some scraper dips before I go any further, hopefully that will help with the flat spots.
Jon, I'm gonna work slowly in the fades when I approach full draw I think.
Thanks Bryce
Rob, Your right it does have a fair amount of character, I don't think final tiller will look even and smooth when done.
Chris, Thanks, I hope I can keep it bending well to full draw without adding any hinges.
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It is looking great Greg. I like Paul's idea - a little extra reflex induced now won't hurt a thing, especially if it's new owner wants to pull it back to his ear ;D. It is good to see you making such a different style of bow from your usual creations. I can't wait to see this one all dolled up. Looks like that fellow hooked you up with a lot of fine bow wood! Being new to this style of archery, I bet he has no idea how fortunate he is to have a bowyer of your caliber to set him off in the right direction.
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Howard, I took Paul's suggestion and put it back on the caul yesterday and heated in more reflex. 55 minutes per limb of heat treating, took it off the caul a couple hours after it had cooled, did some more scraping and stretched it back out to the 22" draw
and 46# there. It's holding most all of the newly induced reflex so far. Should be ok to hit my target of 50# at 27" if I don't tiller any hinges into it.
Badger, thought I'd let you know I discovered the mass weight reading I gave you was wrong, seems I had the digital scale set on troy oz. ::) It would probably be to my advantage to pay more attention to these details if trying to follow the mass principle.
Right now it sits at 21.4 oz. and I still have a ways to go on wood removal, I think I'll still be in the ballpark when finished.
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..... I can't wait to see this one all dolled up. Looks like that fellow hooked you up with a lot of fine bow wood! Being new to this style of archery, I bet he has no idea how fortunate he is to have a bowyer of your caliber to set him off in the right direction.
Yes!
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Did a deep heat treating and added another inch or so of reflex into her saturday. Did some more work with the scraper and sandpaper and have it drawing out to 26"draw & 50# now. My goal was 50# at 27" so I think I'll put a bunch of arrows through it at 26" draw and see where it settles before tillering to 28. I've only put a few arrows through through it at close range indoors at the shop so not really sure about arrow cast. Tiller comments welcome, as I'm not sure if I like the way this one looks at full draw. I can say it draws very smooth all the way out but I won't know if it's any kind of a performer until I get outside to launch a few arrows. Mass weight right now is just under 20 ounces.
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Like your top view profile style and tiller.Nice bow.Shoot a bunch through her.
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Shooter Her in Bud - looks pretty darn good to Me. Bob
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I am sure you cast will be pretty good. The bow looks good and that tiller shape shoots good.
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I like it Greg, did the hand shock calm down?
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Nicely done. Love the wood harvest pic as well. I've been waiting for the 1st frost to finally arrive so I can cut some black-locust.
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I think I have the hand shock tamed a bit, won't know until I shoot it some more and right now the weather is a bit to miserable for me to be out there testing a bow. Winter finally made its way to our neighborhood. :)
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You are gonna have a nice bow there buddy. Shoot it she's good to go
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looking good Greg! does it feel weird building a bow with a handle? ;)
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feels strange Cody, a handle and a cut in shelf. :o Next thing you know I'll be doing glue ups and splicing billets.
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feels strange Cody, a handle and a cut in shelf. :o Next thing you know I'll be doing glue ups and splicing billets.
Now Greg ....we must keep an open mind.... ;D :) ;)
DBar
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Looks very good. Are you happy with it? Jawge
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Nice even bend Greg, looks really balanced from here 8)
Don
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I've had this one finished for several weeks now and heres a few pics of how it turned out. Just waiting to get it in the hands of the new owner, his work schedule and mine aren't jiving so we've been unable to connect for the handoff. He's a compound shooter and is eager for some instruction on how to shoot a selfbow so we need to hook up during daylight hours in my backyard so he can start flinging arrows. Heres a look at the finished bow.
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Nice! What finish did you use?
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Well if that won't get him off the training wheels nothing will, hope to see it bend soon Greg
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And ya even provided him w/ arrow shelf. Nice, Greg!
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Very nice greg. I especially like that sweet looking shelf you put on there. Your best shelf work yet >:D
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Nicely done! I really like those tips.
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That looks great Greg! Nicely done.
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very nice congrats,, beautiful finish too :)
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That turned out really sweet. The new owner ought to love that. Great work.
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That's not a Greg bow!!!!
Looks good man. He will love it.
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Look at them streaks!
Good job Greg!
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Nice bow Greg, looks like a fun piece of wood to work
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Looks great BB
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That finished up nice buddy....should be a good bow for a newby selfbow shooter!!! :)
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Thanks fellas.
Lumber Man, the finish is around 8 coats of tung oil, left glossy.
Ya like my shelf work eh Dave? ;D
This is not a typical style of bow build for me as those of you who know me are hinting at. :) I have in my collection a sweet shooting osage bow that Pearly made for me and I made an attempt to copy it in style, look and shooting characteristics.
This one I made doesn't shoot as good but the style and look are the same and 2 outta 3 ain't bad. ;)
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Great looking bow Greg....love the handle and grip.....
A craftsman and artist can do what he sets his mind to ....sweet looking bow Greg.
DBar