Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Shooting and Hunting => Topic started by: PeteC on December 02, 2015, 08:05:36 pm
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Anyone else out there interested in starting a "group therapy" for target panic. I'm willing to share some things that have helped me,and I'd like to know how others find ways to cope with the affliction. I have shot the barebow now for 52 years,getting my first real longbow when I was 6.I never had any formal lessons, and learned some basics from my dad.I learned to shoot pretty good,and had no problems until a few years ago,when I realized I could not draw an arrow without releasing it.(I could'nt just"let down" the string after hitting full draw). I thought it was odd,but I was still hitting what I aimed at. About 3 years ago I realized I had a problem. Upon hitting full draw,I "locked up" off of target,then,when trying to point,my release would "go off",whether I was on target or not. That was about the first time I heard the name,"target panic",and realized a lot of folks were struggling with it. I read every article I could find on the subject,and tried many "cures",but nothing worked for me.Then, last year,I read 2 pieces that approached the "disease" as a "Form" issue,that, because of poor form,mutated into an "Organic" mental condition,that if left un-checked,becomes a chronic problem. These articles changed the way I approached my problem. To begin,I had to concentrate on good form,then convince myself that I had a strong enough "will" to release the bowstring when I wanted to,and not when my sub-conscience said to. My personal success came when I asked myself a question when I hit full draw. " What am I going to do with it now?" This simple change of thought processes allows me to point at my spot,increase my back pressure,then answer my own question by either letting down the string,or a crisp release. I still have target panic,but, if I practice this method, coupling good form with the "self aimed question",my confidence has soared this past year,and my shooting is at a level I'm happy with. I realize this description is pretty vague,but that would be where the group therapy comes in. If there is already one of these things going on ,let me know,we can drop this one. God Bless
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Wow,that's great.I figured somebody else might have the problem as well. Guess not. God Bless
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Give it some time, things can move a little slow around here sometimes. I've never had the issue but I'm still new enough to my style of shooting (thumb ring and horse bow) that I'm still consciously thinking about everything I'm doing, in fact my issue is usually thinking too much, lol
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My name is Jimmy and I am a bowaholic and I suffer from target panic. Most of my target panic comes when I'm hunting. I think it is more subversive or subliminal when I am target shooting. When I'm hunting deer, especially in the early season having not seen one in a while, I pretty much freak out inside when one starts walking towards me. I get to where I feel like I can barely breath and my heart feels like it is going to burst. It is serious target panic. If they mill around for a while, and I can get a good look at them, I get used to them and calm down quite a bit. I wonder if they feel the same way? Later in the season, if I've seen a lot of deer, I get much more comfortable around them. Overall, in a hunting situation, I don't believe there is a cure, unless you can somehow teach yourself to control your emotions. As far target shooting, I don't know when I am panicking and when I'm just distracted. It is more deep down inside, very psychological. I seem to best when my mind is totally blank and I feel like I'm staring a hole into the target. It is literally "getting into the zone". I haven't figured out how to channel this. If we could, we would all be giving ol' Howard Hill a run for his money. It is the same way with me when I play pool. Usually decent, but every once in a blue moon, you get "into the zone". This tells me it is possible to be "that good", but it is extremely psychological. Of course, all the physical techniques and consistencies are very necessary. So as far as an overall cure, I haven't found it, but I'm still looking for it. It all has to do with controlling one's emotions.
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A few years ago,when I first realized there was a problem,it only affected my practice. I had enough concentration during a hunt to make a clean shot. However as time passed,(and confidence waned),it crept its way into my hunting as well. I think part of is that I strive to shoot "perfect",and if I miss even by a couple of inches at 20 yards,I'm very hard on myself, and I believe this is a major contributing factor to TP. I agree with you Jimmy that TP in incurable,and that one must always practice with that in mind,and follow a regimen to keep your mind in the place where you can control your shot. As I first mentioned.unless I override my sub-conscience,every single shot,with my "question", "what now",I'm in danger of releasing early. Thanks for responding. God Bless
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I practice close most the time,, and my hunting shots are close,,,, that raises my confidence,, I dont compete any more .. I am happy just being hunter,, that was my whole reason competing in the first place to become a better hunting shot,,I practice my form, pulling through the shot,, I have a floating anchor, this was slow in coming,, but shooting the short hunting bows I like( ala Jay Massey),, I evolved into how I shoot now,, at 62, I have the confidence to shoot the way I like,, need no ones validation,,, just the deer laying there dead,, if my shot is a few inches off, I go closer,,, the few times I do shoot further,, my form is good and it is an easy transition,,, but I like to shoot at deer 15 yards and under,, so my practice is easy,, I feel like I should be able to hit the kill of a deer at that range , even with no practice,, and probably can,, but I love to shoot, so I try to pick up my bow often,, I vary rarely blow a shot when I pull through the shot,, if I stop to aim to long,, that is when things go wrong for me,, I can do it,, but not my preferred way to shoot,, I like to aim the whole time I am drawing the bow ,, so when I get to full draw I can pull through the shot and I am dead on,, I know that sounds easy,, or over simplified,, but I think shooting or practicing close is under rated,, if we all hit or skillet shot or close ones, the freezer would be full most time,, Right??? I guess my main point is,, you can practice out past 100 yards if you like it, but if you want to kill deer,, close practice,, consistent form will get the job done,, :) confidence is very key
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I agree with you Brad.Close practice is essential for building confidence in all shooting situations.If you cant hit the spot at 10 yards your sure
not going to hit it at 30 yards. I'm like you in the sense that I've shot a long time,and I like to shoot,but I can get by without as much practice,and shoot better.I have to concentrate more on my personal "sequence of the shot",to have effective practice. It still amazes me how it,(TP), manifested itself into my psyche ,after all these years of confident shooting.I was already a seasoned hunter when I took the step over to hunting with bow and arrow some 30 years ago.I grew up hunting squirrels,bobwhites,dove,ducks, and deer in east Texas ,and my family ate wild game and fish all year long.I was well accustomed to the excitement ,(and adrenaline rush),that comes from having game right in your lap. To me it's a mystery,and I'm searching for a key to unlock it.That's the main reason for this thread. Thanks for replying Brad. God Bless
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From the day I started building/breaking wood bows my shot declined almost to nothing. It was embarrassing, ineffective, and not enjoyable. My problem isn't holding on target, not at all. Its actually allowing my muscles to fully draw the bow. It was like my mind had a 42# switch. I let go at that weight every time, no matter what draw weight bow I would build or how far the bow was drawn. It all started to form as I broke a bow here and there. Each time a bow cracked, my draw shortened another inch. It was pathetic after 5 years. I did two things to fix it, mostly. First was to watch "Masters of the bare bow" DVD a few times. Second was to shoot my glass bows. For some reason my mind shuts that 42# switch off with a glasser. Now, I shoot glass bows much more. When I pick up a wood bow, which is still nearly every day, I can fully draw and shoot most of the time. I hunted with a self bow all season but a few days. If I try to shoot self bows exclusively? My shot deteriorates in about 2 months, I tested it this summer. In a nutshell, my subconscious doesn't trust self bows :) Ever try to reason with your subconscious? Good luck.
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Maybe his will help some it has helped me help other win that are infectice with this.
TARGET PINIC is visile you see the target and instantly release. You break this cycle by touch instade of sight.
I teach others 2 ways of doing this one is you cut the arrow back untill the head touchs the back of the bow.
I did this for the first 3 years after I had 2 strokes in 06. I could'nt feel the side of my face. So I knew I was at full draw. When the head touched.
But this second way is the only other way of getting help I know of.
I teach people to do 2 things, you draw touch you ankor corner of the mouth or even a tooth. But as you come on target you release with your third finger down first you FELL THAT THIRD FINGER DOWN BURN. You feel the release not see and release.
I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS WORKS FOR SOME PEOPLE WHILE OTHERS LOOK AT YOU LIKE YOUR STUPIT.
Try it covert it to your own nateral way of shooting. Takes time and arrows.
Maybe it'll give someone some help.
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Thanks Pearlie and Crooketarrow. There are some strange affects that come through TP. One of mine is this: I can draw a arrow topped with a broadhead,come to full draw,anchor, aim,then let down with no problem whatsoever.But,with a field point or critter gitter, it takes unbelievable concentration for me to pull off the same process,(without a pre-mature release). However,this "loophole" I found,makes up the foundation for the method that has helped me regain confidence. It is along the same line Pearlie mentioned being able to come to full draw with a glass bow.It's a place to start. Thanks y'all God Bless
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Like probably most here. I practice at hunting distances. Usually 15 yards and less. This sounds easy to compound shooters, but you can always improve and more more consistent. That's why it's addictive. I admit, I have lot's of problems anchoring (planting your finger at the corner of your mouth or whatever). I can't stand for my hand to touch my face while shooting. It is distracting and uncomfortable. In fact, I hate it so much that I just decided to stop trying to do it. I have settled for seeing the tip of the arrow and even my right hand in my peripheral vision. When they are where they need to be, I release. Of course, this causes much early release and snap shooting. I definitely shoot better and the bow performs better at full draw. Shooting this way, I will never be as good as Howard Hill, but so be it, I don't compete. I am good enough to hunt and so were the Indians, who used methods that seem very unconventional to us. I believe it is all muscle memory and mental, regardless of your preferred shooting style. You just have to be consistent in your mind and body.
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Jimmy I dont touch my face as well,,
I used to feel that i was short drawing,, but then I made bows that were at full draw at my "short draw",, that is what I like to shoot and hunt with now,,usually 24 25 inch draw,, I find the power stroke once to 24 will give nice performance,, :)
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Hey every body! I've been reading your discussion on target panic with some interest as its a malady that has plagued me for years as well. I know how frustrating and debilitating it can be . There was a point were I took a long hard look at whether I could ethically continue hunting with my bow as my shooting had become so erratic as to be downright scary. After much mental training my shooting has improved dramatically, to the point that I again enjoy and have confidence in my shooting. For what I have read on the topic and my own experience I believe it is a matter of retraining our brain to not take shortcuts in our shooting process. The sheer willpower route didn't seem to work longterm for me and left me very frustrated. It was when I started a training regime to break my mental shooting habits that started to see real and significant results. One of the most effective drills for me was to draw, aim at a spot, then shift my point of aim to another spot, and then let down without releasing. After a few days of doing this repeatedly it was as if my brain could come on target without releasing ,until I made the conscious decision to do so. Hope this can be a help to someone.
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Sounds cool ,seams there's no set afflection other than the end result.
Everyone thats affected by it. Has to personally come to turms with it.
And everyone seams to have a differnt way of dealing with it. What works for some, a joke to others.
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Hey Nate,thanks for posting. You began your method much as I did. Jim Ploen,champion archer and one of the original owners of "21st Century Archery",wrote an article in the Fall 2000 issue of the now defunct "Instinctive Archer".He described taking your focus off the target by"blowing out the candle", to take away the "heat"building during the shot process by re-focusing on the back of your hand or arrow shelf to regain control .This technique can be used for various type of TP,such as the inability to reach full draw,or "locking up" at full draw,which is my issue. Of course,when you refocus on the spot you wish to hit ,the "heat" returns.It was a matter of pointing at the spot,taking focus away from the spot,(before the pre-mature release),then refocusing on the spot again.Many repetitions,along with having my mind in the right place,help to control the sub-conscience triggered release. God Bless
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The first bow I got was a hickory/purple heart lam longbow. The bowyer told me the bow was "7/8 broken at full draw." This was to impress his customers that the bow should not be overdrawn or held at full draw too long, less the wood be overstressed and blow.
I took his instructions to heart and managed to develop a snap shooting technique where I did not come to full draw and I never really got a chance to aim because I was letting the string go too early.
When I had an opportunity to get a glass lam recurve I discovered that I couldn't get it to full draw without letting the string go too early. I kept hearing "7/8 broken" in my mind and couldn't get past that, even on a bow where that was not an issue.
My girlfriend is a hypnotist. She's done stage shows at parties and events as well as personal therapy with people. When I asked her if hypnosis would help me she asked me a few questions about what I wanted to accomplish and then suggested we give it a try. After our session it was a few days before we had an opportunity to visit the archery range. The first time I drew my bow I tried to not think about things. My string hand came back to a solid anchor and showed no desire to let go of the string until I decided it was time to do so. The rest of the range session was the same. In fact, I've never experienced the short draw-snap shot again, and that was some 16 years ago or so.
I can't say if hypnosis would work for everyone with a target panic-like issue but it sure seemed to help me.
Guy
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Hey Guy. There have been days when I felt I was more in need of an exorcist than a hypnotist! As if my bow and draw hand were conspiring against me. It's an interesting thought. Hypnosis for shooting problems, but it really sounds logical because instinctive shooting is largely a mental process and hypnosis as I understand it is somehow tapping in to one's subconscious. Not sure if I'm ready to try it though. I'd probably get laughed out of my church if it was known I'd been to a hypnotist to cure my shooting issues.
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Pete, is there a link to that article by Jim Polen or a way to find a copy? I'd be very interested to read it.
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Target panic for me is an off/on thing...I think the biggest cause is fatigue...Panicking to get the shot off before the shaking or stress comes into play...I have a glass bow that I pick up and repeatedly draw/exercise to stay in what I consider archery condition...I shoot one at a time and pull from 15yds and in when I get to go outside and shoot my self bows...If I am in shape everything seems to just be relaxed and on the money...If I get tired and start panicking/rushing I quit...There's so much going on when I have a deer coming that the target panic doesn't come into play, thankfully...For me, conditioning is the key...
Don
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Hypnosis,very interesting.They have been used by some sports teams in the past to help rid the sub-conscience of negative thoughts,but I have no experience with it,nor do I know anyone who has.I wish I knew of one.If I did,I might give it a try. Donald,without a doubt,it is worse with me when I'm tired.I try not to shoot when exhausted. Nate,all I have is the issue.Fall 2000, Instinctive Archer. Page 47-50. I have no idea whether they are archived or not. Thanks y'all. God Bless
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Thanks Pete. I'll try to look that up. I was shooting a bit this morning in the basement. ( it's cold and snowy outside) I tried coming to full draw while aiming at a spot, then glancing down at the back of my bow hand and back at my target spot before releasing. Shot amazingly accurately. Any ruffed grouse would have been in mortal danger at the 17 yards I can manage in my basement. So interesting how our minds work isn't it?
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I was almost always releasing to soon. I kept thinking that my bows were too heavy until one day I noticed that if I was just exercising a bow I could pull 40# quite easily but if I was shooting I could only manage 35 or so. So now I just buck up and pull. Knowing that I can do it has helped a lot. I still have to concentrate or the arrow is gone before full draw.
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It is amazing Nate. Just diverting focus helped for a while,then I began to have the same old problem.To keep the focus in check I have to ask myself the ? I mentioned earlier. If I do this every shot,I can keep enough control. Without it,I'll slip back into TP. DC,I hear you. I try to break down the steps of the shot ,"seamlessly";point,come to anchor,just barely making contact with the corner of my mouth,finish aim,then tense my back muscles to fully anchor,and a pull through release.It's a wonder how something that used to be so simple for 40 years or so has gotten to be so demanding,that is,If I'm going to shoot at the level I used to. God Bless
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I was almost always releasing to soon. I kept thinking that my bows were too heavy until one day I noticed that if I was just exercising a bow I could pull 40# quite easily but if I was shooting I could only manage 35 or so. So now I just buck up and pull. Knowing that I can do it has helped a lot. I still have to concentrate or the arrow is gone before full draw.
That's the problem DC. You are focused on your draw. That's very similar to my issue. To be "good" all we can focus on is a target, the rest of the shot cant be a conscious thought. Muscle memory has to take over, as well as our sub-conscious.
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One thing that bothers me is temporary fixes. If I come up with an idea, say, concentrate on feeling my finger touch my eye tooth, I get full draw for about 10 shots. Then it doesn't seem to work any more. I've tried concentrating about things that happen before release and things that happen after release. They all seem to help for a while. As soon as I turn it over to my subconscious it goes west. I wonder if I damaged it in the 70's ;D
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DC,you may have to do like I do,(or should do).If all you have is 10 shots,then shoot your 10,then quit. I went yesterday intending on taking just a few shots.I was shooting well,so I kept on shooting.Sure enough,I started making mistakes. I should of quit early to maintain the high confidence. JMHO God Bless
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I'm trying to build some muscle too and 10 shots a day won't do that :D
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I may be out to lunch on this but I think that the whole target panic thing is a learned condition. We essentially train our minds and then our mind starts anticipating our actions and taking short cuts. Then we attempt to compensate for those "short circuit" short cuts and we are launched into a downward spiral of involuntary physical hiccups, shattered confidence, and focus that's scattered like last falls leaves. That's why I now focus my training regime on teaching my subconscious mind that I do NOT release every time I hit anchor or every time the sight picture looks right. After training this way I am regaining control and confidence. We can beat this thing!
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Nate,I believe you hit the nail on the head. It is definitely a conditioned or learned response. I believe in my case it goes back to snap shooting,or a floating anchor, for all those years. Somewhere along the way my timing got off a little,which caused a very subtle change in accuracy at first, and this had a snowball effect that built into the monster it is now. I too,feel I can beat this with the right training. I have made progress this last year,but still carry some doubt that must be overcome. God Bless
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I'm trying to build some muscle too and 10 shots a day won't do that :D
Try standing about 6 meters :) from your target and shoot with your eyes closed. Focus strictly on feeling the draw, anchor and release. After several hundred shots your muscles will start to remember what to do without your conscious mind directing. Its sole purpose is to burn a hole through your target and nothing else. You've heard the old story several times I'm sure, where the hunter recollects the hunt and doesn't remember drawing or releasing, but hit the 10 ring on his game. That's muscle memory hard at work and what we all strive for in one way or another.
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I think I'd have to get a bigger target ;D ;D ;D
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I know of someone tha broke his panic by shooting at night. Not at a target but just at the butt.
Just worked on form and ankor FEEL.
WORK ON FEEL ,NOT SIGHT AS YOU COME ON TARGET TO RELEASE.
Heres what I've found out with 30 plus years bow and 23 seasons shooting selfbows.
Heres a little chalange.
With out exception if you think your a perrty good shot. Get a judio and take a walk. You'll quiuckly find out you suck at your shooting and judgeing distanes.
I had been shooting recurves and long bows with judios for 6 years then for 23 years selfbow practic. All my real practic is roaming shooting judios. Only time I shoot across the yard is when building a bow for someone.
Take a judio for a walk. You under stand what I mean.
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Here,here.That's the truth.I do a heck of a lot of stump shooting myself too.If every deer would give me 2 shots I'd have to buy an extra freezer.I burn a hole at a very small spot on my target with my eye [focus] and no diistractions physical or mental and let er fly.I know an archery store owner self bow maker that writes the words FOCUS on the belly at the fade of his top limb.In fact if a person is focused enough nothing distracts you and then let your routine take over.No rush,no hurry just loooose with confidence.The key for me to learn was to diagnose exactly what I did wrong if you know your equipment is right.
Now there is such a thing as shooting too much too.Getting tired.Your form will suffer.A person needs to recognize that too,but you should be able to shoot 50 arrows a day at least.
There's a long bow crack shot shooter I shoot with at times[he has shot muleys,elk, and bear at 50 yards many times] that says to shoot a compound for a couple of months every day to get accustomed to coming to your anchor besides the blind butt shooting.
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I think I'd have to get a bigger target ;D ;D ;D
You don't even need a target. Shoot the ground in front of you. Which reminds me of another good practice trick. Toss a cotton ball on the ground in front of you and shoot at it.
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I agree with you.Practicing in the woods is something everyone should do regularly .I shoot from 5 to 50 yards,and have for years.I know what the sight picture looks like without thinking about it.When TP kicks in,my problem is "getting on target "without locking up ,then releasing the string early. God Bless