Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: willie on November 28, 2015, 05:36:03 pm
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I have been trying to work on bows without the dust that most power tools create. I doubt that I will unplug my band saw, but the sanders are going to be put up on the shelf.
I have used a number of rasps in the past, and have not found one I really like for the finer work required after floor tiller stage is reached.
what is your favorite for tillering?
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I use a Nicholson Farriers Rasp. The coarse side is great for removing wood quickly, the fine side is great for removing wood after I get a bow to brace. I shape grips with this file too, though use other files for nocks.
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Shinto rasp is a web of saw blades riveted together. I've used all sorts of files and rasps, Shinto is in a different universe, totally brilliant
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My favorite is my bellotta farriers rasp, hogs off the wood
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Craftsman, 4x36. Usually 60 grit.
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Nicholson #49 all day long... tillering, leveling, straightening, shaping handles, establishing facets, radiusing limbs, etc. on bows of any type or shape, straight, snakey, whoopdy do's, it gets in there. I love it. I stocked up. I should have enough to last me my life and then some.
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Change the angle of the rasp against the wood. Try to get as close to parallel as possible. What can happen is that you finally get the teeth lined up so that what one rank misses, the next rank catches. I have a Nicholson (not 49 or 50, not sure what) that I think may be a patternmaker's rasp. It will leave a nice finish when I line it up.
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Farriers.....the real hogger and some other half moon finer rasp.
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Per your question, a Nicholson #50 is my "go to" rasp after floor tillering......then to the scrapers for final tillering.
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If you want to make your own rasps just get some of the coarse floor sander sheets with the sticky side and stick strips of them on various pieces of wood of appropriate shape,
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I have a 10" half round hand cut rasp that I'm quite fond of, it's starting to get a bit dull now but still works quite well
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All of them. I have 4 or 5 that I use on every bow. I am pretty fond of my super thick Nicholson farriers rasp.
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I appreciate the responses from those that have taken the time to read this topic.
the nicholsen 50 seems about like what I am looking for, but I heard that it is not what it used to be since they started making them in brazil. a nice hand cut rasp is a tool that has no equal, and the one I have taken a liking to got ruined and does not seem to be sold anymore
perhaps the shinto offers something worth buying, as a reasonable production tool alternative to the handmade priced models
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I don't use a scraper to remove file marks from the belly.I use a 6" chunk of 2"X 4" with 36 grit paper on it.Old drum sander paper.Use long strokes to remove file marks.
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I have a Auriou #6 rasp and I absolutely love it. Pretty expensive, but I can see why.
I use my Bellota farriers rasp a lot too
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I used to use the Aurio rasps but when mine got damaged I found my supplier had switched to the Shinto rasp. At the time I was not best pleased as I really rate the Aurio but when I got the Shinto home I could see why they had switched ;)
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For hogging off wood fast I'm using a 10" sureform plane (which I used to think were useless) at about 45 degrees to the belly. Doing the bevel from both sides thing, then leveling the ridge. It's not a plane, despite the name, it's a cheese grater rasp.
Then for closer work, I'm using a single point rasp, which also isn't thought of as a rasp. It's a Nicholson, but the brand doesn't matter. It's a former 8" dull flat bastard file, with the teeth ground off all around and square sharpened on a stone. In other words, a 10" scraper with a file handle, held a little less than 90 degrees vertical on the draw with both hands, or sometimes one-handed for light or edge cuts. It cuts fast and leaves a perfectly clean finish.
It's nice because it is flat for most of its length, but the end tapers off slightly rounded to the tip, since it was formerly a file. So you can use that area to favor a particular spot even on a flat-across belly.
It's nice and hard steel and doesn't need sharpening often.
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Bellota Top Sharp is my go to
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There's not all that many out of a couple hundred bows that I have made without using my trusty scoop-like Surform rasp, the one used in one hand in a pulling motion. It eats even the hardest woods, never taking off too much, following stave contours, managing dips and handles. Importantly, it allows me to make bows free-form, without a vice, horse or anything other than my hands and toes (yeah) to hold the wood and work on it at the same time, fluidly.
Costs around 10 bucks, indestructible, with cheap replacement blades (you need to change once in a while to keep up the performance), light and small enough to take with me anywhere. Along with an axe and a cabinet scraper all I need to cut, rough out, tiller and finish a bow.
Tuukka
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After the recommendation from Plan B, I had to go dig up an old surform file I have. It was cast aside years ago as useless. It has a flat blade that seems to bite well on some woods, but not at all on others????
Now Tuukka has me even more interested, so I will have to look over the product line better when I am next at the store
thanks
willie
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My favorite is my bellotta farriers rasp, hogs off the wood
+1
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After the recommendation from Plan B, I had to go dig up an old surform file I have. It was cast aside years ago as useless. It has a flat blade that seems to bite well on some woods, but not at all on others????
Now Tuukka has me even more interested, so I will have to look over the product line better when I am next at the store
thanks
willie
I pretty much use it cross grain at an angle on tough woods. And for hogging, bevel the wood up from both sides to the center. Then take the center down. "Regular Cut" blade: 21-293. Try a new one -- that might also help. Like Tuuka I often use it one handed while holding the bow in the other. The vertical plane handle helps me bear down for that, cutting mainly on the back half of the rasp.
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Save edge ferriers rasp. Expensive but worth every penny in my mind. They are super sharp and I find that I can use it for course and moderate tillering. I have even used the file side for fine tillering with light pressure in combination with the scraper. They are a great tool, just dont get your hands in the way!
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Save edge ferriers rasp. Expensive but worth every penny in my mind. They are super sharp and I find that I can use it for course and moderate tillering. I have even used the file side for fine tillering with light pressure in combination with the scraper. They are a great tool, just dont get your hands in the way!
+1
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farriers until you can get a shinto.
chuck
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I do like the Shinto, but my favorite by far is a german hand cut rasp my brother gave me- he has a hand tool company called "peck tool".Very fine teeth In a random pattern that leaves a fairly smooth finish. Costs about $100.
The thing I don't like about some rasps it that they're flat on both sides, I really feel I need a rounded side for shaping hollows including the common "rollercoasters" in vine maple. So, I have coarse and fine rasps- each has a flat side and a round side of the same teeth.
I am always sure to not let my rasp touch anything but wood. if it's not in my hand, it's in a bamboo sleeve.
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I used one of those 100 dollar types a while back, and they are hard to beat. I was looking at the offerings in the economy prices and ordered a shinto but was intrigued by the surform after the reviews above. picked up a new blade for the surform and spent some time with it, and it worked good on softwoods crossgrain. harder woods not so well and along the grain, not so well either........ maybe I just got a bad blade. the half round worked best. when the shinto came in I decided it was better, but it's not offered in anything but flat. if you want to save some, the shinto blade alone works as good for bow work as the full tool with the handle.
as with many thing in life , you get what you pay for
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Yesterday I had a rancher friend GIVE me 60 Bassoli farrier rasps! Some have hardly been used. The only stipulation was I make him a knife.
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Yesterday I had a rancher friend GIVE me 60 Bassoli farrier rasps! Some have hardly been used. The only stipulation was I make him a knife.
Lucky!
Here is how the Auriou rasps are made. Pretty impressive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvr2nZeAfNc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvr2nZeAfNc)
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I like a BIG ole heavy Farrier's rasp for hogging off large amounts of wood. In fact, if it's sharp and heavy enough, it can often be quicker than messing with the bandsaw! I know one fellow that does nearly all of his work right up to the finish sanding phase with the humongous 17" SaveEdge Farrier's Rasp, (it's more like a Sword than a hand tool!) ...but he's a crazy person that makes PERFECT bows.
I'm not so blessed as he. Once I'm down to basic bow blank or maybe to floor tiller, I much prefer my Shintos. I like the fact that they don't seem to 'follow' like many other rasps seem to do. With most rasps, it's pretty easy to cut a divot or groove in a single stroke or maybe two. With my Shinto, it feels like the lighter blade wants to ride above the piece I'm working and seems to cut a more even slice without cutting into a groove. I would probably have less issues with this if I kept my Farrier's rasp sharper.
The only drawback to the Shinto for me, is that you really must keep a file card or brass bristled brush nearby to clean out the teeth of the tool occasionally.
Chad - it sounds like you got a real SWEET deal there on 60 Rasps!
OneBow
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With the bellotta rasps where i get them they have four or five in differant cutts from a fairly fine farriers rasp to a hog that is super aggressive
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Mine is the super heavy one.
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I can buy a rough one side and fine the other Shinto saw rasp online for £20>$30, I'm rather sold on getting one now with all the praise its got :). I presume this is a fair price.
I did pick up one of these at the tool shop for a couple of quid, a tube surf form, thought it might come in handy for following the grain.
Ruddy Darter.
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I really like the Bowyers Rasp that Dean Torges was selling. Its made by Dragon and the teeth are more aggressive than the Nicholsons. Its flat on both sides though, so the Nicholsons are great for handle and fade areas. I do also like the Shinto, its quite aggressive and at the same time it leaves a smoother surface than a ferries rasp. It tends to clog though and you need to clean it out frequently. I also have a Sureform that is shaped like a rasp, and I reach for it once in awhile. I use a curved blade on it, and the big knock I have is that it is more of a rightie blade and I'm a lefty.
Can you tell I love hand tools?
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I really like the Bowyers Rasp that Dean Torges was selling. Its made by Dragon...<snip>
I wonder how Dean managed to negotiate that contract? I mean tool maker would be a rather obvious profession for dragon to get into what with the built in forge and all, but I'd think they would be rather hard to negotiate with since they are noted for fits of temper and are very insistent on getting their own way... :o :o :o
OneBow
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I really like the Bowyers Rasp that Dean Torges was selling. Its made by Dragon and the teeth are more aggressive than the Nicholsons. Its flat on both sides though, so the Nicholsons are great for handle and fade areas. I do also like the Shinto, its quite aggressive and at the same time it leaves a smoother surface than a ferries rasp. It tends to clog though and you need to clean it out frequently. I also have a Sureform that is shaped like a rasp, and I reach for it once in awhile. I use a curved blade on it, and the big knock I have is that it is more of a rightie blade and I'm a lefty.
Can you tell I love hand tools?
Lennie,
try to drop by more often than every six months or so. Don't you like us anymore?
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Sure do, just don't get inspired as often as I used to. I'm making three hedge longbows right now, which is why I decided to drop in and see what you guys are making.
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I used one of those 100 dollar types a while back, and they are hard to beat. I was looking at the offerings in the economy prices and ordered a shinto but was intrigued by the surform after the reviews above. picked up a new blade for the surform and spent some time with it, and it worked good on softwoods crossgrain. harder woods not so well and along the grain, not so well either........ maybe I just got a bad blade. the half round worked best.
As mentioned above, I've built hundreds of bows of many kinds of woods with Surforms. I can easily see how the pull-style Surform might feel useless at first. It bites the wood, especially hard wood, only at specific angles. After decades of using the tool, I still find that after a longer break from using it I'll have to play a bit to find the sweet spot tilt that starts to eat the wood, the back end of the blade mostly engaging the wood, I think. Also, the Surform seems to "feed itself": after you've opened the wood surface with it, subsequent pulls have much more effect on the now-specifically ridged surface. It takes some strength and stamina, as hand tools do. But it does work, really well, and allows you to fluidly switch from working one limb or the other to eyeballing the taper etc. I never use the tool cross-grain, BTW.
Chinese copies of Surforms are around, and they are truly useless, even fresh out of the package. So that might be a factor in some people's crappy experiences with these tools.
Tuukka
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I'm asking for the Grobet 10 in rasp better quality then current Nicholson #50 it replaces if it's any thing like there files that I own I will be happy but it's pricy at $94 will let you know
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Lenny it is good to hear from more than once a year. Try to make it by the bow bothering this Jan in Wright City. It's not to awful far from you.
I prefer to use a sharp farriers rasp for all my bow building for the most part. I then switch to a cheap half round to clean up Amy curves I can't perfect with the rasp. Also 60 grit sandpaper with a shading block is also a handy tool over a rasp, but my bows aren't perfect . Lol
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I use several rasps, i like each one for different reasons, they all have a place.
- Nicholson Farriers
- Nicholson #49 or #50
- Shinto
I also have the Torges rasp that is fine on one side and coarse on the other, but both are flat. The fine side clogs pretty easy and i prefer the half round of the 49 or 50, but it is still a nice rasp, i like that it has a small handle at the front.
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I used to have favorites. Now, I like the rasp I need at the time best. Sometimes a half round, sometimes a flat, sometimes a farrier rasp, sometimes a Shinto and sometimes someone else's if its close by!
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My Nicholson and SaveEdge Farriers rasps hog off a lot of wood but most of the hogging is done with a scary sharp 10" Douglas curve blade draw knife. So guess I'd have to say my favorite rasps are still the American made Nicholson 49 and 50. I use them more than any of the others for shaping and forming.
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Farriers rasp for heavy removal. Torges rasp for the rest. A quality rasp like a Torges or Nicholson is well worth the money you pay for it.
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I have a Shinto saw rasp, but am tending to find more use for spokeshaves and draw knives so far. I would like to have a play with a float, but I wouldn't even know where to get one for a reasonable price.