Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Carson (CMB) on November 26, 2015, 01:44:31 pm
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Came across this old Yumi bow listed on the big online auction site. The photos show interesting detail. Looks like a nice example of a well crafted Yumi.
Thought I would share.
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Vinta_zpsocdpommm.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Vinta_zpsocdpommm.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%202_zpsg4kdhukm.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%202_zpsg4kdhukm.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%206_zpsyeaa76wu.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%206_zpsyeaa76wu.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%207_zpsukdmugv9.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%207_zpsukdmugv9.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%208_zps7qwi6wur.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%208_zps7qwi6wur.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%209_zps3cwhawjy.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%209_zps3cwhawjy.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%201_zpsd3uwx0vo.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%201_zpsd3uwx0vo.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%204_zpst0oxidhh.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%204_zpst0oxidhh.jpg.html)
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k633/Acer_circinatum/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%203_zpsvfeiddho.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/user/Acer_circinatum/media/Vintage%20Yumi%20Bow%203_zpsvfeiddho.jpg.html)
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can anybody make-out whats written on it
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I think it says "Made in the USA" >:D >:D >:D
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Yea....Different there.How wide is that?
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Thank you for that -- I'm very interested in kyudo. Totally out of reach for me, but it's really great to see the details in a real yumi.
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I guess the Japanese don't buy the needle tip theory.
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I noticed that too Pat. I am wondering if it is less crucial for performance in a bow that is 80+ " long. The tips in a bow of that length don't have to travel far, even to accommodate the typically long draw of this style of archery. If not hindering speed too much, the benefit of stabilizing the bow might be worth it. A small amount of extra mass in the tips would provide significant stabilizing force when the tips happen to be that far from the handle.
Beadman, I have no idea, but guessing from the photo showing the door knob, it looks somewhere near an inch wide.
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Jaap Koppedrayer might have an idea as to the origins of the bow. Steve Thomson is on here and may have some ideas as well. He was an apprentice to Jaap.
These bows are typically very narrow according to Steve. An inch is about right.
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Jaap should be able to shed some light on this bow.
Look at that reflex! I am guessing it is every bit of 8"
By the way, a basic description of the bow listed it as 84" long.
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Well, looks like I am the new owner of this bow. I made an offer on it, much less than the fellow was asking, but still much more than I have to spend on bows...and he accepted it.
I will share more pictures and details once the big box arrives.
The seller added this information provided by a collector:
I have some information about the yumi that you have on ebay. I have been collecting samurai weaponry of all types for the past 25 years and I have been studying kyudo for a while now. The bow that you have is more than likely from the Showa era (1926-1989). Probably WWII vintage. It is made in what is called Sanmaiuchi (Three layers) construction. It consists of a hardwood center base (traditionally catalpa wood) with layers of bamboo on the front and back. It would be considered a beginner's bow due to the low ratio of bamboo to hardwood. A yumi with a large amount of bamboo (80%+) can be broken if it is drawn and shot incorrectly just once. These types of bows with a large hardwood core allow for more errors in pull and release so that beginners could progress up until they would acquire a primarily bamboo bow.
A couple other things to note. You have the dexterity for the yumi down as "both." That is not possible. Yumi are always held in the left hand and drawn with the right. The number 3 stamp makes me think that it is a late 1930's - early 1940's Naval Academy bow as they didn't start using western numerals until that time on military swords. The number 3 could refer to its length (Sansun) or its draw weight (13 kgs?) or simply an inventory number. I assume that the length measurement was taken in a straight line from tip to tip? The correct way to measure a yumi is just like a western bow where one goes from tip to tip along the string side of the bow. My guess is that the actual length would fall in the 87"- 90" range. That info would be very helpful in your listing. Kyudo was taught in the Japanese military and my feeling is still that this is a bow for a new recruit."
Well, in terms of yumi bows, I guess I am a new recruit.
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Wow, you bought it, Carson!
Funny I just planted a catalpa tree in the yard, just because I like them, not for bow wood. I did once look up catalpa's strength vs stiffness properties as a wood, and it seemed then like it was one of the lowest rated . But used as a web in 3 layers, maybe it has a particular positive quality for that purpose which made it preferred traditionally in a yumi. It must have. So that's something to think about. Kyudo and the yumi is a very interesting subject to me. Would like to read how the recruiting goes!
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Makes you wonder if it's really Catalpa used as a core. Most sources seem to mention mulberry.
Interestingly Catalpa and Ipe are in the same family. Hard to find two woods les alike.
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I noticed that the rind seems to still be on the Bamboo but the nodes have been taken down
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I'd steer clear of any needle-tipped styling with a very long and narrow bow having a huge reflex, Yumi or not. I think the relatively massive tips are all about stability aka dependability. They're only an inch or so wide, anyway, given the narrow design.
Tuukka
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Do you plan on repairing the delaminations and shooting this thing or just to put on the wall?
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I am hoping to repair and shoot it. Once i get it in my hands, I will have to take a closer look and do some research before I decide to actually attempt to bring it back into service.
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I really respect the craftsmanship of these bows, but the design confuses me and appears clumsy.....does anyone know why or how this design was arrived at and what are its benefits???
dave
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There's an interesting article on wikipedia on yumi with some discussion of the form and its history.
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I really respect the craftsmanship of these bows, but the design confuses me and appears clumsy.....does anyone know why or how this design was arrived at and what are its benefits???
dave
I am guessing that they're probably not that slow since they're narrow and made from bamboo (I really don't get the hardwood laminations on the sides, though O_o), and due to the length, reflex and recurves the draw is likely extremely smooth and long so it gives good energy transfer to pretty heavy arrows for the draw weight
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Plus a bow designed to be shot in a kneeling position makes you a smaller target for the opposing archers.
You should read "zen and the art of archery". It was the original "zen and the art of.." book. The archery is just one facet of kyujutsu which was the samurai "art of archery". Kyudo "the way of the bow" is a more modern adaptation. In the book it was over a month before the student was allowed to touch a bow. It was several more months before the arrows were introduced.
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Howdy, Several observations from my own Kyudo pratice.
The origin of the design is a frequent topic of debate and speculation, but no one really knows. The Yumi has been used by kneeling archers, but the original Samuri were HORSE ARCHERS! It seems unlikely that horse mounted guys chose a bow design just so they could get off and kneel. Most other theories have flaws as well. My teachers just shrug and say "that's the way Japanese make their bows."
Yumis are designed for long draws. (My Kyudo arrows are 41 inches long.) The long draw and remarkable reflex make for an efficient bow, even with the clumsy looking tips.
Yumis are very easy to break with improper shooting and I would worry that a pre WWII bow might delaminate further just from aging of the glue. I've had garage sale long bows of ~ that age that fell apart at the glue joints.
I do not know if Jaap does evaluations or repairs, but there is one Yumi maker in CO that does repairs. (if interested, PM me for more details)
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The shorter lower limb has the same benefit when kneeling as it does on horse back. It doesn't hit the ground or the horse. As you said though, that's just how they make them.
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Awhile back, I attended an exhibit of historical Samurai arms and armor. One detail that I noticed in common is that the Japanese put a tremendous amount of effort into making their warriors look as large and fierce as possible. My theory is that the goal of making the upper limb so long is visual intimidation. It has an affect similar to adding very tall extensions to the top of their helmets, or carrying very tall spears with colorful flags or other adornment attached at the top. I'm sure it makes a strong statement going against a group of archers with 84"+ bows. The impulse would be to run away rather than fight. The lower limb is left short so that it doesn't get in the way, and doesn't trip up the archer when it is actually being used.
Alan
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avcase has come up with a new explanation! It makes as much sense as any.
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wonder if there are any benefits to an asymmetrical bow and if they draw smoother to a symmetrical bow with the top limb the same length as the bottom on the yumi. Hm. If the bottom limb has to bend more to get its tip to the same vertical line, what is the difference?
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Loon, take a look at photos of Kyudo archers at full draw. The whole bow tips forward so the lower limb does not bend as far as the upper limb.
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bamboo will easily make a much shorter, more practical bow, japanese bowers must have known this....most archers who train ,manage to hit things with shorter bows,. True they may be smooth and stable...!! but is there a serious lack of smoothness and stability in a shorter bow? not realy..!! so what where they thinking??? they obviously wherent stupid because of the skill as craftsmen they display. So, there must be a reason!!! just cant figure it out.....
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I think it has a lot to do with the form, they draw high and bring down as they draw so it is always on the shoulders and not the arms for alignment with good form and proper constant maximum length drawing technique and reduce fatigue drawing this way with the yumi , I think the design is to best suit and promote this technique of drawing in my opinion,
Ruddy Darter.
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I've done a little (although surface level) research in this area and it seems the real answer as unsatisfying as it is is that no one knows why it evolved the way it did. The shape has little to do with horse archery it seems since the tall asymmetrical shape predates japanese horse archery. Some say it originates from using whole bamboo poles or tree saplings and the top of the tree being thinner was left long and the grip close to the bottom to balance the difference in stiffness, though I don't buy that since they had normal symmetrical short and long bows before this design so there was certainly no "need" to string up a "raw" tree to make a bow. Who knows, avcase's idea certainly has merit and would be consistent with japanese thinking but is not the entire story alone either. Meh, the japanese, what'cha gonna do right? lol (I say that as a part time nipponophile so nothing untoward meant by that)