Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: PEARL DRUMS on November 24, 2015, 08:54:16 am
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Hey guys,
Finally started on this brain child of a bow that has been hanging around my mind for at least a year. Lots of thought has went into it so far with a lot more to come. I snapped this pic last night, sometimes I see things better in a pic. I'm not sure I like that limb profile. Its a self limb, so I can do whatever heat manipulation I want. To me? The reflex starts about 4-6" too soon. It looked better on my caul, not so much now.
What say you?
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I have a problem with abrupt bends when I tiller, take off wood, take off wood, take off wood, then the dang limb finally moves and goes too far in the opposite direction.
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Tell us about the brain child first. Have to know what the plan is before opining on the profile choice.
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I hear that Eric, that us exactly how it goes.
Pat, it is nothing more than you see there. I just put a lot of thought into the build and looked at a lot of other FG bows before I even started on it. You can see the deflex is minimal, but still there. That was intentional. The bow will by around 68" long, the limbs are 28" long beyond the riser.
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What is the reason for crowding all the reflex in the mid-limb? Or mid-outer if you actually intend to move it out a bit.
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No reason, It looked better on my caul. Now it looks crowded as you said. I'm thinking about flattening it out, say an inch. Then adding more farther out. It just doesn't look right, or efficient to me.
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I'm not liking it to much Chris, I'd move it out 6" if it was me just has an odd look to it
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I'll flatten it out some and just add statics, pizz on it.
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How about like Gary Davis does his an ever increasing reflex out to the tips evenly.Then all you'd have to worry about is the thickness tapering during tillering to be dead on.
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From the fades that is.
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That would'nt give you much for any sexy curves in it though.I know you like that too.
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Sitting back up I suppose? If it were deflex it would look good.
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I prefer that most of my reflex is mid way and out. I don't like reflex in the fades much Ed.
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Leaving it like that might give you a headache tillering it out. I would continue adding reflex out to about 6" from the tip, remember you will lose a fair bit of that while tillering the bow out
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I wouldnt flatten it back down...id just add reflex out in that last ten inches or so where it flattens out...like marc said a lot of that inner mid limb reflex will pull out...told ya this would be a good trial n error lesson.... ;) once you add the wedge belly side of the limb itll deflex it a tad more too so it wont be as much starting reflex as you are showing now
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That would be a nightmare to brace and keep from twisting. To tiller that shape right some of that big curve would still be visible at brace height. I would say just use your cawl on it.
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Its an ugly one alright. Looked much better on my caul last night. Oh well, I heat it back up and move it some.
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I'm not digging it...needs less where you've got it all, and then move it out more!
Would be kinda curious to feel how it pulls/shoots if you did hook the ends with some statics! 8)
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I'll bend some statics in this one after I flatten it some, just for you turtle!
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Just turn the limb around and add string....should look great strung up..... :laugh: :laugh:
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OK sorry I see what you want.A little deflex too.You bet and your static bends on the ends.That'll look very nice.Still a nice even slowly increasing reflex to the base of the statics.Just like reverse bracing it profile.Depending on how much overall reflex you put on it, it could be a fun one to tiller,but I'm sure your up to the task.Is this the bow you've got all the parts for of like 3 or 4 different types of wood for it?I'll be watching for it.That'll be a beautiful killer bow for sure.Good luck on your journey.
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Gotta say though if ever a FG mentallity has gone into a bow this one is,and that's ok and well.It's being done all the time.With beautiful results.I think natural materials can be tougher in some respects then FG.As far as twisting etc. is concerned.More easily fixed so to speak.I can vouch for that....lol.
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I would think that an FG type of profile works and behaves differently than all wood limbs. I guess if you can flatten them out and re bend the last 8-10" but subtlety and smoothly. Looking forward to this one. My last 3 piece only took 1/4" of set and it draws smooth as silk, limbs are quite long unlike yours, only 34# though :(
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Hey Pearlie, Does this mean that you'll be needing more shafts soon? >:D
G-Monee >:D
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I have no suggestions on what to do with it, I'm a simple man therefore only attempt simple bows. All I can say is just do something with it even if it's wrong Pearly, just looks funny to me. ;D
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I'm with ya Greg.... :) ;)
I guess we're not bored yet with the simple one piece self bows... ;D
DBar
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bow101.....I was just quoting a friend of mine who makes both type bows.FG and self bows.He likes the simple fact that a natural materials self bow can be fixed fairly easily while if an FG bow has major problems most times it's back to the drawing board.Chris's bow will have 0 shock and shoot very smooth like you said yours is with a longer handle.He'll lose 4" of length with the splice but should be fine.
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Looks like he intends to make it a three piece if I'm not mistaken.
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I'll let Chris tell ya but that's the drift I get Pat.bow101....Your bow should shoot smooth pulling 34#'s.I'm sure Chris wants a little more than that and he should get it.He will take his time if I know him.Which I would too really.
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I'll let Chris tell ya but that's the drift I get Pat.bow101....Your bow should shoot smooth pulling 34#'s.I'm sure Chris wants a little more than that and he should get it.He will take his time if I know him.Which I would too really.
No biggy, misunderstanding you missed my point. I am well aware that he would like a bow better than 34#.
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How about like Gary Davis does his an ever increasing reflex out to the tips evenly.Then all you'd have to worry about is the thickness tapering during tillering to be dead on.
That's the best way to add reflex to a wood bow. Smooth and even. Also heating up more than once is a big no no in my eyes as it weakens the woods resistance to compression. I know because i've messed about trying to get the perfect shape on sage billets only to have them chyrsal right where the 'excessive' heat was used (tiller was perfect). I now get my profile and heat treat all at the same time and aim to do it only once.
Beadman - your friend is right to a degree but if you have a messed up FG bow it's down to you. If there is twist you haven't got your layout straight or have reduced one edge too much. If you do everything right you don't get messed up FG bows. A FG bow is all about design and execution if you get those right you will have a bow - the same can't be said for wood only bows...so many variables that even with many years experience you can still get bitten when the wood says NO!
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How about like Gary Davis does his an ever increasing reflex out to the tips evenly.Then all you'd have to worry about is the thickness tapering during tillering to be dead on.
That's the best way to add reflex to a wood bow. Smooth and even. Also heating up more than once is a big no no in my eyes as it weakens the woods resistance to compression. I know because i've messed about trying to get the perfect shape on sage billets only to have them chyrsal right where the 'excessive' heat was used (tiller was perfect). I now get my profile and heat treat all at the same time and aim to do it only once.
I don't agree. Early reflex is rarely a good idea, very rarely. It just makes the narrowed section work that much harder and your bow will take more set. Why reflex a section of limb that is already full width and the most stable section on each limb? And, if your getting compression fractures in osage, you have a lot bigger fish to fry than heat application. I have heated, re-heated, heated gain and then heated more osage bows than I will ever remember. None have chrysalled, ever. Your wood is wet or your tiller sucks if you find compression fractures in osage.
As far as Ed's comments on FG. He is referring to th eease in which self limbs can be corrected as opposed to FG limbs.
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I have no suggestions on what to do with it, I'm a simple man therefore only attempt simple bows. All I can say is just do something with it even if it's wrong Pearly, just looks funny to me. ;D
Tell you what McGregor. If there is ANY way to make a bendy handle 3 piece, I'll help you with it :)
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I am like Greg, no idea what to tell ya ,but feel sure you will figure it out, on the heat/reheat issue. Done it hundreds of time with Osage, no problems. In fact I have to do it on most bows
just to tweak them a bit after they get to brace. The only Osage I have had fret was backed
and I guessed it just over powered the belly, it wasn't mine but I was involved in the build. ;)Good luck Chris, should turn out nice and looking forward to seeing the finished product. :)
Pappy
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Yes I agree on both points about FG and wood and was taking that point for granted about layout and construction.He knows that too.This friend of mine pushes the envelope on FG bows.Using carbon,degree of reflex,etc.I stay out of it with him and FG bows.He does agree about the levered bows efficiency though.....lol.The relativity I'm pointing out too is that different woods have strong and weak properties where they are used and that happens in FG bows too.I don't like to reheat bows either especially in the working areas,but have done it many times with mostly good results and durability.Getting it done all at once is the best.I think Chris's bow will be a sweet bow to shoot,durable,and a real eye catcher.Using different woods that exscel in their properties where they are used.Very cool.Someday I might try that procedure of construction.I'm pretty sure he's looking for a more rounded type profile at full draw with the deflex in the handle,and I like that.The speed part will all depend on how much reflex he will be able to retain with the efficiency of tillering.It'll be fun and an experience to watch the construction.
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I think the bend needs to be more gradual, and get tighter in radius as it reaches the limb tip. Easier to tiller, easier on the eyes ;)! But, thats whats nice about using slef limbs, A little heat, a little pressure and you got it!
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That's the plan Cody. Keep your phone nearby this weekend ;)
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Lever bow ?
could be exciting
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Ah - the red hot-line phone to the Misslemaster Commisioner Gorden >:D. Good luck with this one Pearly !
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I like that profile, I would check it out strung before I changed a thing.
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I ended up rolling the tips over a bit farther to match the existing reflex. Both limbs match and look much better bow. I am adding overlays for the bezel to sit flush. I ran out of Uni Bond and tried TB3 in a pinch, that didn't work so I chiseled them back off and will wait until I get a new can of epoxy. I was hoping to have the limbs bolted on by the end of this weekend.
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Bezel....Is that a bow making term?......lol.Is that on the tip?You mean a slanted taper on the on the limb tip and then horn overlays put on to make it even on top again?You got the limbs matched......Great.Bet that too much turkey is slowing you down.....heh.