Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => ABO => Topic started by: iowabow on November 23, 2015, 10:07:42 pm
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Well I spent a good part of the day breaking biface after biface chasing a rabbit. I hit a certain kind of platform with my antler bopper and had an interesting thought so I used a bunch of chert chasing a rabbit and finally I kinda thinned about as good as my copper. Never thought it would happen but we'll here it is. With steps and all. I was inspired on this one by a marty rueter video where he said I need to really push my skills.
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Man, that is thin, John. Hope it's not a "secret".
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Sometimes I will get a preform that looks good but there will be one spot that is too thick or an odd look to it and doesn't fit the rest of the point. I now look at it and decide if I leave it I will never be happy with it, so I decide an avenue of attack and go for it. Used to think breaking them seemed worse than leaving it, but I guess I have gotten used to breaking them...lol
Hopefully you will show us some of the thinning method you learned. That biface looks really thin and wide. Well done! Way to push the learning process. You got a pile of debitage in the background..LOL
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No secrets just have to eat dinner first
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Ok so I was going to smack this platform that was really to great an angle and it was on the base. With the platform so steep I tilted it to about a 45 degree angle. And gave a good hit. I never hit a stone like that way unless I want a step. In this case I was trying to step it because it is a fast way for me to hit a stone three times and get some good reduction but that's another story. There happened to be a ridge so everything was there except an unusual choice for where to hit the platform. I hit it very slightly above center and it cut the stone in half and wow I sat back and thought crap I have been doing it wrong for three years. See I do a fine job up to a point and then I can't reduce the stone anymore. I never could figure out why but now I know why. I was trying too hard and being much to careful. It is so much easier than I thought. I wrote many post about platform preparation and break flakes and so on and so on....well it is so much easier.
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So I also made this one and I want you to notice the flake on the tip. I included a close up of the platform. Notice it is 3/32 thick and I built a small platform with that steep angle. I gave it a hit and then I knew this was the ticket. The reason is because now I know more certainly than ever that I should be able to thin very thin preform using this technique.
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That preform broken in half because I hit that third ridge on the right just too high on the platform. But I know that you can get 3 passes from one set up. But I made sure to move the deltas in just a bit. In the past I would reduce them to a single ridge. This now seems to be a bad idea.
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You are holding it at a 45 towards the ceiling or the floor?
As odd as it sounds when using a billet I tend to hold the preform at a 45 towards the ceiling, however with punch work it is lower. Hitting high and low with a billet is why I am working the indirect percussion now. The accuracy is a lot better.
Thanks for the post and pictures. Really like those wide flake scars.
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Kind of like this and tonight when I get home I will make a couple platforms to explain that better as well. Man if the platform is not just so it won't work. The margin is narrow but not impossible for the average knapper. But be warned you a riding on the edge of stepville.
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If you do step it you know you are close
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We all should be able to knap as thin as where my fingers are on the preform. This is not hard guys it just runs against the safe way bifacing works. It is that place when you are making a point that no longer wants to thin so you try so hard to concentrate so you don't screw it up and you think it if I just have the platform sticking out and I barely hit I can take a nice thinning flake and not ruin this gem" ok trash that idea. Then get more aggressive on the platform angles and hit it higher than you think with a steeper angle than you think. These are all the no no rules in my abo book. I have now torn those pages out and rewriting the game plan.
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Never thought I would see the light in abo. And as you see I tried to keep thinning it and took a chip with the ishi lol. Ya gotta keep trying right!
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But be warned you a riding on the edge of stepville.
i call those 'thinning steps' ;)
Then get more aggressive on the platform angles and hit it higher than you think with a steeper angle than you think.
i wonder if your angles of attack are similar to what i'm experimenting with.
i get the feeling that i'm going to snap the piece in half. at least this would happen if i were to pressure flake with these angles and platforms. but i keep my finger tight against the underside where i want the flake to be.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Xa8crPHfJsmziEWekZ2wLn0VrMqh8LDSnbs1n4DNYTdpKhk2otlyJpNEaiLatc4wpuEtI73mY-Ls7wi-VFA6eVEfwppOmciFa9Qs6zAxaCJ-LoJXqTSvkNod0caIiPoPEN_G7zf6j5V5O_IFgz5zz9q-nAcKnqE0OIr3Dw4k7CaMcy67hPmLXZjTXUeYi0GYEE3nSGa9QB6GyWpnVMF0DVjjo5IP32ZT_6XVKiPK3qJdp0RGMP3vbrbB7PKRT8CanfMXqyzlUrb647uunjFrariPEmauvDd6GStG0O2RJMWdvkY0Z9tNtXgwPFxspSELuas31R3VmBa2A4jSCoVkPH4Qq2ZAISrNhgA-byxojubNwmAP1AyWNZhElKmsdwuTp37zujXOANbkSjejGzR43Kbrh5yph35zgB-10wppTkskIaWCbpOMrhgagpz25muyfntfWRHrS45Y8V960wxca2NHHRbxSHOIWywWLLrbHXp98mrgqnFRO-cEi4_8fZgsB5VXngY38HW8r0sWn1bNUU-yGXYvKKLBamT9enHRwM=w458-h813-no)
come to think of it, if you don't strike fast enough, it will probably could snap in half.
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Yes sometimes I support and sometimes I leave room for the flake to run just depends
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Here are a couple platform pictures and the preform from tonight. BTW the hold should be half of 45 degrees so more like 22.5 degrees.
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In picture 1 I am showing the platform before flakes are removed.
In picture 2 I am showing the stone cut in half as I thin from left to right.
I guess at this point I don't really see the need for thinner points. But now I think about my ishi stick work combined with this antlers stuff and wow this could be a whole new game.
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From the end of your fingers I see an isolated platform with a continuous platform to the end of the preform. That thing thinned out nicely. Getting them thin is more fun than finishing the point...lol
Thanks for the pics
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John, as you know I am primarily a copper knapper, Today was foolin around with a antler booper and had a nice pc of kekouk that was a big thick preform from some earlier copper thinning, thought I would try and thin this out to a blade with the antler. After a few passes fiqured out i needed to hold pc at a more upward angle an hit it hard I got some great thinning flakes. My only compaint with the ABO antler is I seem to have to hit everything 2 or 3 times to do what I would get with one hit of copper, just doesn't seem to release as quickly so minor adjustment of swing and or speed and pow, off it comes. Just a lot more tiring of arm between the 2 styles, Hopefully thinking that this will improve with more practice with the antler. Later picked up a pc of Texas and just took 3 or 4 swings to get what I would get with one hit of copper. Thinking my plat forms need to be weaker with the antler, I am so used to really strong platforms fast hits and results with 1 copper hit, tuff material really made my arm tired with the antler or differnt muscle used with antler hold verus nice straight dowel. Having lots of fun either way ;D I didn't start knapping until i was 58 yrs old, just hoping I can keep hand strength, and keep arther away :( I know a few really good knappers that Arther finally had his way with, One of my early mentors at the classic hardly knapps at all because of what Arther did to his hands, truly one of my best teachers. Starting to ramble on . Later Bob
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Thanks for the post Bob. I have Knapped longer with antler than copper it has been years since I have touched copper to stone so my perspective is likely not good in drawing comparison at this point. I remember my frustration when switching to antler and totally can identify with where you are coming from.
I would personally find it difficult and frustrating at this point to make a point from copper. I can really can't compare the two techiques anymore they are so very different as you have pointed out.
I don't know if I work hard or smarter now with time as a comparison. I do think I have spent more time thinking about how to ABO vs copper because it has taken a long time to travel this path. I think maybe now it is easier to make points and my speed for making ABO points has increased but I have personally slowed down as to not over do it.
As you know I am knapping everyday so finding the easiest way to pop off flakes with the least amount of energy is always a bonus. I use mix of antler sizes and hammer stones to produce points with the least amount of stress possible. Each tool will release a flake with varying amounts of energy. I watched a hammer stone video the other day with a guy that effortlessly removed flakes with a hammer stone.
I switch tools often depending on the task and switch up my knapping day to how I gauge the health of my arms. But I did learn that pacing myself was important. With this project I am currently working on I am switching from one task to the next. Depending on my mood and body I will spend my time working hammer stones to biface out work for the pit or pressure flaking preforms or doing edge work and notching for a light day. My favorite time really is building the fires for the heat treating and just enjoying the moment and experience of that part of knapping when your doing nothing but adjusting the fire. On days I am not in the mood I Knap by collecting rock or creek stomping for strange colored chert. Sometimes I use my knapping time to hunt artifacts in the creek and use those to think about knapping.
I don't know if my process will lead to heath issues or not. If I don't feel good and no longer enjoy it I will move on to other things.
In the end I guess copper knapping and abo are different and to compare the two is kinda like Apple and oranges really because of the differences. One is not better than the other but just different.
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I decided I was getting long winded and started a second post here. Sitting in the stand deer hunting. But got winded by a deer and it's now light enough to type.
Anyway, Bob the flake detachment for me is about what removes the flake with a comfortable swing. I know what you mean about the speed and and all. I think I have found a balance in antler size, wt, size of flake and speed that just works for me. I guess if it doesn't feel right it probably is not right. I can say after two hits if that flake did not detach then things need to be worked out better. But what wrong is, is hard to discribe. Learning ABO after copper is a nighmare. The processes are so different and it just pissed me off to no end honestly. I guess that's why I write so much about trying to help folks out. I don't want them to go through heck like I did.
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Kinda addressing your thoughts with different post here. Yes the dowel vs the antler hold did hurt my hand when I switched and the top of my forearm hurt like heck when I spalled large stone with the large moose antler so I switched to hammer stone and the problem disappeared.
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@ 'Outback'; make sure you're not using modern abraders w/ abo knapping. There are people who do well w/ that approach but it's easy to make platforms too heavy. Watch videos by 'flintknapping tips' and Lucas Nicholson. They use hammerstones to make platforms w/ a technique called 'schrunching'.
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@ 'Outback'; make sure you're not using modern abraders w/ abo knapping. There are people who do well w/ that approach but it's easy to make platforms too heavy. Watch videos by 'flintknapping tips' and Lucas Nicholson. They use hammerstones to make platforms w/ a technique called 'schrunching'.
Good point I also abraid up and across not down too much and when I say abraid I mean brush