Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: jeffp51 on November 17, 2015, 01:55:54 am
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What's the shortest stiff-handled osage self bow you have built? I am trying to get 29 inches of draw out of a 63" stave. I already have a 62" bendy handle bow, but after a year of shooting, it has a fair amount of set to it. This one will be a little wider, and I hope that will help, but I could still use advice on the best chances of making this work. I have recurved the tips, and I am ready to start tillering. Give me your most extreme success, and how you did it. Thanks.
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I do that routinely, I usually take mine out to 28" at that length but will nearly always draw them out to 29 here and there.
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What is the maximum limb width can you get out of the stave? The wider your limbs are the safer and less set it will take. Osage 1 &3/4" limbs min, to 2" at the fades should be a good start point.
I'm sure Badger could do a good job with 1&1/2" limbs (or less) but not everyone is anywhere near experienced as him. He undersells his tillering ability but he is a master as far as I'm concerned.
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That's pushing it in my opinion, a 63 inch stave is only going to be 61 or less N-N add 4 inch handle and 1 1/2 fades is only 54 inches of working limb, 29 is asking a lot to make a long lasting durable bow. JMO.
Pappy
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Theres a couple ways to do it,but the best design to reach that draw with that length stave is a /R/D static recurve. Any recurve with tips flipped past 30° can work as well. The r/d one tho has a more built in safety feature because of the deflex handle relieving the stresses at the most worked area in such a high stress bow. If you dont go the R/D route with the handle n limbs and just make it a recurve youll need a little more width than a r/d. Youll need a good 2" of width imho,and at least 1 3/4" with the r/d. Ive done it both ways with a hair shorter than what you have. And my prefernce is to go the r/d static route. I can post examples(links to em) of both if ya like. Good luck!!!
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Thanks blackhawk and the rest. Pictures would be great, especially an unbraced profile. A little clarification with my stave- it is actually 64" following the limbs, but 63" straight line between the recurves. Temporary nocks are cut in 1/2" from the tips. The fades are about 1.8 inches wide. The limbs are knot free except for one pin knot that has a small amount of the previous ring around it.
I figure I can either deflex the handle some, or make it slightly bendy, or hope Osage is as amazing as everyone says. More opinions are welcom
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Heat treat into the bow near the fades deflex. Then reflex the tips to bring up your string tension and allow for less stack, higher energy storage. However, leave the tips so that the distance from the tip to the back of the handle when pressed against a wall equals about the amount of set you got on your last bow. This bow if tillered correctly ( not just in shape but in not overstressing the bow in the process IE stringing it to soon ) should take little to no set and be much much faster as well.
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I extended the draw on this one for a customer because it still had the width in the limbs(2"+),and plenty of string angle left to do so...it worked like a charm n the dude loves it.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=51832.0
And heres a R/D static posted not long ago...the handle is more stiff than working but the bend does come into the fades. ..you could easily make this stiff handled and have healthy limbs and tips forqard of the handle yet.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=54420.0
Also look at some of marc st louis bows...he routinely gets long draws with short-er stiff handled bows.
Anyway ya go make sure to get the bend up to the fades..you need to get everything available in your limbs to work...this is key to making a qaulity high stressed bow or fire kindling.
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I agree with Blackhawk, get the handel working into fades and keep the puter limbs stiff. We see bows here all the time as short as 48" drawing 28". At 61" nock to nock it might stack a little but shouldn't be too bad.
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Badger, why the stiff outer limbs--I am not doubting you, but why not get get more bend from the tips too?
I will post pictures later of what I am working with.
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the stiff outer limb reduce the stacking
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Okay here is what I have: I deflexed the fades so that the tips are now about 1.5 inches ahead of the back of the handle. I am sure that will come down more in the tillering process. I tried using Marc St. Louis' localized steam method (towel wrapped with foil) and it worked okay, but this evening when I set out to make some minor corrections, I discovered several cracks in the back in the handle area. The longest reaches about 6 inches past the fade. the cracks all run with the grain and since I was careful about following grain during the layout, none of them run off or even come close to an edge. I superglued the heck out of them already, so I am going to hope for the best. Have a look and please comment--all criticism is welcome. Someday I may be good enough to just present finished bows here. Until then, I still appreciate all the help I can get and I am not too proud to ask for it.
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Looks good so far. I wouldn't worry about the cracks.
Pappy
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What Pappy said.
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Looking good! Arvin
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Asking questions makes you better. I need to more often. You do good work Jeff.
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This is 17 inches with a very low brace (1 inch or so) I think I know where the problem areas are. What do the experts say? The deflex messes with me and makes me uncertain. There has not been any set so far.
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Looking good so far. Maybe a little flat on the right limb a few inches out fro the fade, left limb looks good to me. :)
Pappy
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Wait, What? You mean I am getting better at this?
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In order to give you a quantitative answer rather than qualitative these results must be repeated over time.
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I am at 20 inches--about 9 to go. Where should I be trying to get more bend from here that will keep set to a minimum?
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Maybe just a touch just out of the right fad area but over all I would just keep doing what you are doing, looking really nice. :) you are at full brace now aren't you ?
Pappy
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No, that was at about 3 inches of brace. Here is mostly full brace-I may go another inch in the end. 22" now. Pappy, I do appreciate your willingness to comment. I feel like I am getting the hang of it, but I am still learning. If you look on the bottom picture though, you can see my tillering gizmo--which is the main reason I can get as close as I can. It seems like the the deflexed handle and the pyramid-ish tapered limbs are producing a more rounded tiller, instead of elliptical.
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Looking good , I would get it to full brace and be careful with the gizmo. It is a great tool but will fool you very easy on a deflex handle and especially on one wit lot of reflex in the limb. They sometimes change also when you get to full brace. Pappy
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What should I be looking for around the handle? I have it to full brace now, and it has taken about an inch of set.
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If you just braced it and already took an inch of set you braced it too soon. The tension its under just being braced is causing the wood to overstress. Reduce the weight more before you really start working the bow back too far. How many pounds at how many inches are you trying for?
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55 lbs at 29 inches. I have that weight out to about 24 inches now, so about 5 to go. I only advanced it about 3 inches today with the whole day off from work. I try to go slow I can live with a little set, given how short the bow is in relation to how much draw I want.--as long as it is even and holds together long term.
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That sounds good, set happens and that short 1 inch sound very good to me. Save the fads for the last few inches, if it takes set there is shows up a lot worse than anywhere else. Just keep thing even and move on. Never pulling more weight than you want to end up with. :)
Pappy
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I have one more inch to go. This is the last chance to fix problems with the tiller. See anything I should fix now? Set is at close to an inch and a half--mostly mid-limb out.
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Flat spot from the square of blue tape out the limb for several inches.
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Is'nt there a slight propeller there?
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I see that too pat. But be careful because i also fear a hinge starting at the end of that flat spot towards the tip on the left limb.
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Don't worry about asking ?'s we all need help now and then
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Maybe a few scraps where Pat said, but if I were that close I would short shoot it some and recheck, sometimes it looks and acts different In your hand than it does on the tree. Looking very good. :)
Pappy
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When tillered by pulling the string at center, but shot while pulling it an inch or two higher, we should expect it to look and act different.
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Ok, next paranoid question while I am waiting for weather to shoot the bow in some: I am going to make some laminated tip overlays - is superglue or TBII better for this application? I am leaning toward superglue.
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I have used both and prefer high quality super glue myself. :) Either will work.
Pappy
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Ok, next paranoid question while I am waiting for weather to shoot the bow in some: I am going to make some laminated tip overlays - is superglue or TBII better for this application? I am leaning toward superglue.
What kind of weather are you waiting for?
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the kind where the sun is still up when I get home from work--probably a weekend.
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the kind where the sun is still up when I get home from work--probably a weekend.
HAHA, I had to come home early monday to shoot my new bow. It's tough to shoot in the dark.