Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Arrows => Topic started by: BarredOwl on November 16, 2015, 09:38:02 am
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I just finished a new bow that is going to require some lower spined shafts than what I have. I would like to try something besides POC in hopes that something tougher with a lot of POC's other good characteristics exists. I know ash shafts are going to be tougher but harder to straighten and heavier. I am looking for some shafts that will be in the 30-35 lb spine range and would like for them to come in no heavier than 500 grains with point and all. I have tried Sitka spruce in the past and didn't really care a lot for them either. Three Rivers didn't even have the spine range I am looking for in POC.
I have read on here that some guys are building some poplar arrows that they really like. How would the physical weight of poplar compare to POC for a given spine weight range? I googled poplar arrow shafts and only found a place in Europe that sells 5/16 poplar in a 30-35 lb spine range.
So if anyone can put me on to some suppliers that might have what I am looking for I would like to try something new or find some POC that are in the spine range I need.
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If your interested in shoot shafts, honeysuckle is tailor made for what your needing. I don't recall seeing much honeysuckle where you're at. But maybe someone in the KC area or farther east could trade you some. Josh
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Are you talking about bush honey suckle that has the red berries on it this time of year? The highly invasive, non-native, reprehensible plant that totally dominates the understory of woodlands where it is left un-checked? If so it's all over the town I live in, even in my own back yard. Never thought about trying that stuff.
I was hoping to find some production shafts that were already spined and sorted accordingly, that would let me go the easy route right now since I am still trying to get a deer killed.
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Yep, that's the stuff! The stems are hollow so care must be taken when straightening it, but it makes pretty durable arrows. Much better than POC. Make sure you get the second year shoots. You can tell the difference by whether it just has leaf scars or twigs. You want twigs. Josh
For ready made shafts, don't overlook 5/16" raminwood dowels from the lumberyard or farm store. You'll want to be picky and make sure the grain runs true for the entire dowel and as straight as possible. You can flex them by hand and get a pretty good idea of the spine. They usually run anywhere from .49 to .79 cents a piece. Josh
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its great arrow shaft material. love honey suckle shoots.grow very straight. most times with a slight gradual bend. and long too. when you debark it and straighten dont let it fool you as its green that itll be too weak. once it dries its a monster.lol very strong stuff for spine and weight. Tony
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I'm a semi-new converted douglas fir lover. Very tough and straight, even for my crappy shooting they hold up well. Check out Wapiti Archery for prices and such.
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Echo Archery also has some nice Douglas fir shafts.
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Thanks guys. The douglas fir may be just what I was looking for since they are tougher than POC price is good too.
I am still curious about poplar shafts based on some posts from guys that seem to love them. How do they compare weight wise to either cedar or doug fir, and how are they to straighten/keep straight?
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I haven't weighed any poplar shafts but POC and Tulip poplar both average out at 29 lbs/ft^3. They tend to warp but not as bad as the harder wood shafts.
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Lots of shoot shafts are good for arrows, honeysuckle as already mentioned, arrowood viburnum, dogwood, small hickory saplings, rivercane, chinese privet and many more. You don't even have to spine your shafts, just match them in length, taper and apparent spine when you bend them and while they are still long shoot them out of your bow and 10-15ft and find the ones that stick straight into the target. Once you make a few shoot shafts it's not difficult at all and is actually quite enjoyable. I highly recommend making your own arrows, using sinew, turkey feathers, and natural glue, it only adds to the level of satisfaction (plus when you shoot in front of the glass bow guys and it actually flies really good and their mouths hang open, priceless :D)
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Pearl . . . think grain of doug fir is such that a person can taper point end third of shaft with thumb plane, or will get lotsa "dig in"?
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honeysuckle will also make a good bow if you can find a long enough piece. just thought i would throw that out there >:D
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Mike I see no reason you couldn't taper them.
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Kevin Forester of Forester Woods(a PA sponsor) has all sorts of wood shafting in about every size. Check him out.
Is there a reason you want 500gr for a 35# spined arrow?
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I want them to come in 500 grains or under with point feathers and all. 500 grains is the upper limit.
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You can try ERC from the box hardware store. You'll of course have to take them from board form to dowel, which isn't impossible. Just be aware that the wood is soft and prone to tear out. I found hydrating them with wood oil prior to doweling and sanding helped with this. Leave them 3/8 to start. Most of the ones I made came in between 35-55# depending on the board. They were really lightweight, between 300 and 350 grains for a 32" blank. They seem to hold up okay. The few that I broke should have been discarded due to grain flaw, but I hate throwing stuff away. After the second one exploded in the bow, I changed my opinion on being picky. When it comes to arrows, better safe than shish kabob.
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Good advice Kid........... ;)
DBar
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How about sassafrass shoots for natural shafts? I have a bunch near me where the town trims the roadside once every few years, and they look to be about the right diameter and length for a decent shoot shaft.
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When it comes to arrows, better safe than shish kabob.
Truer words...
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I found hydrating them with wood oil prior to doweling and sanding helped with this.
I am interested in this thought of yours. Does the oil effect the ultimate finish or does it all get "doweled" off? What is wood oil - do you mean BLO or Tung Oil? Have you tried water in place of the oil?
My experience with making ERC shafts is very similar to yours. Light weight, beautiful to behold, but very prone to chip out when doweling. Of course, sharp blades are a must, but still very chippy, enough to discard almost 25% of the shafts for that reason alone.
Russ
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I've used tung oil, motor oil, and vegetable oil. All worked better then nothing at all. I was referring to tung oil when I mention wood oil. Vegetable oil worked equally well and didn't dry as fast. Motor oil didn't penetrate as well as the others. It doesn't all get removed during the process but enough does that it won't effect staining afterwards.
another thing that seemed to help was to adjust my homemade jig so that the feed hole after the cut was a little tight. It seemed to burnish the shaft after the cutting and prevent future tear outs during later finishing. Watch the friction though it will scorch if you let it dry out.
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its great arrow shaft material. love honey suckle shoots.grow very straight. most times with a slight gradual bend. and long too. when you debark it and straighten dont let it fool you as its green that itll be too weak. once it dries its a monster.lol very strong stuff for spine and weight. Tony
I found a standing dead shoot among the bushes in my back yard (actually along the neighbors side) I scraped the bark and straightened it and I was amazed at the difference in strength/toughness between dry and green honeysuckle. It spined out at about 33#'s. So I drilled out the nock end just enough to glue in a small diameter piece of dowel rod about an inch long, filed in a self nock and wrapped with sinew and bare shaft tested it tonight with a 125 grain field point and it stuck in my target as straight as could be from about 10 feet back. What a difference getting a lighter arrow in that lighter draw weight bow and I am shocked at how tough this stuff acts like it's going to be. Might end up being my new favorite shoot shaft material. I know where I should be able to cut quite a bit of it around a local reservoir.
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No idea where you're dwelling but if in the midwest or anywhere else for that matter you might contact Tim at Braveheart Archery for Surewood shafts. Prices are in line and shipping cost usually beats the others hands down.
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No idea where you're dwelling but if in the midwest or anywhere else for that matter you might contact Tim at Braveheart Archery for Surewood shafts. Prices are in line and shipping cost usually beats the others hands down.
Thanks Fred, I did find those guys once I settled on Douglas Fir. Got a dozen shafts on the way. I agree the price was good enough and shipping seemed in line for sure.
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I always shop around but if what I'm looking for is available from Mr. Harms he generally gets MY business. I prefer doing business close to home with like minded people. Tim doesn't get as much credit as he deserves. Sometimes I wish he was bigger and carried more product but when I think about it long enough, I'm glad he doesn't. We don't need another Cabelas. 3 Rivers, Kustom King, and a few others provide me in a pinch and I do support them. On the other hand Braveheart, Raptror Archery, Echo and a few unmentionables get my vote. tadeletalada
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Lowes sells poplar dowels. 5/16 will come in well under 500 grains.
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I bought two dozen Sitka spruce shafts directly from Hildebrand Arrow Shafts. They were $39 a dozen, plus $13.50 S&H. So far I have made six 30-35# medieval-style arrows. They fly very straight and they are definitely my favorites. I weighed one of my completed 5/16", 29" b.o.p., self-nocked arrows with a 100 gr field point, and it is 24 grams, or about 370 grains.
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For dowels, I have had much better luck at the smaller craft stores like Micheals, or A.C. Moore etc. rather than the big-box stores like Lowes or Home Depot. the smaller craft stores seem to have exponentially better quality dowels for making arrows. Stiffer for smaller diameters with a straighter grain. occasionally I will even look at the 3/8 dowels, and I'll sand/scrape them down to the spine I need. you can also get a really good taper on a 3/8 dowel. It's a lot more labor-intensive, but worth it sometimes.
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You should'nt be disappointed with surewood shafts.Very well matched weight and spine.He's my man for douglas fir shafts.Note....I've done osage orange shafts here before too.At 5/16's inch thickness spine on them was 35 to 40 pounds.Trouble was they weighed close to 650 grains I recall.That's on a 30" shaft too.
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I went with Surewood Shafts. So far I have not complaints at all. They are all very close in weight and are all bare shafting real close to the same too. Here's one I got finished during all the rainy weather we've been having here. The rain started on Thanksgiving day and there has been anywhere from drizzle to outright rain falling since then. I had 5 days off for thanksgiving and got to hunt one morning for an hour before it started raining again and and one evening with light mist the entire time I was out.
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Yea that's tough with that crappy weather for hunting.Unless you got a blind you'll get soaked.Old surewood shafts did you right then.....good.He'll pick them out individually.Not like these other places.I bought some sitka spruce from hildebrand once too. I footed them with purpleheart.Pretty but still a little too lightweight for me.What I like about those douglas firs and spruce is that will stay straight for ya too.
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If you're into making your own arrows, here's a "how-to" that I did some time ago for a VERY simple router jig.
One very important modification though, make the entry hole 9/16" diameter for 3/8" square stock as opposed to the 23/32" (18mm) entry hole for 1/2" square stock. The 1/2" version was forcing the router to remove too much wood at once and it had a tendency to tear out wood if the wood was brittle (like Douglas Fir).
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=44952.0
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Thanks there woodenspring,and your persistence.Like a few fellas before us here I've seen some other plans before too.Yours looks nice.Wonder if it would reduce the time making dogwood sapling shafts too.Don't see why it would'nt.
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Thanks there woodenspring,and your persistence.Like a few fellas before us here I've seen some other plans before too.Yours looks nice.Wonder if it would reduce the time making dogwood sapling shafts too.Don't see why it would'nt.
Persistence? Yeah, I'm like that little piece of corn that you get stuck in your teeth that no matter what you do or how hard you try, it just never seems to go away. ;)