Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Bows => Topic started by: Marc St Louis on November 15, 2015, 07:15:12 pm
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How many people here have or been asked to make a heavy draw weight bow? I've made many bows well over 100# but they were always long, ELB style bows. A couple months ago a guy from Ca e-mailed me wanting a 150# recurve. Well I don't really want to make heavy bows anymore, too bloody hard on the shoulders, so I declined. Out of curiosity I mailed him back a couple weeks later to see if he found someone to build this bow for him, he came back saying he was waiting for me. Well, I figured I would see how desperate he was to have such a bow. I told him that only the highest quality wood would be suitable for such a bow, which is true, and then told him what I wanted for it, not a word from him since
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I am interested in making a 100# + bow for awhile. Now that you mentioned this topic, what are some reccomendations and or opinions Marc? Inquiring minds want to know :)
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shoot man, most my bows are over 100 lbs....when ruffed out lmbo. i spend considerble time and effort getting em down to a reasonable 35-50 lbs. lol take it easy Marc, your not so young anymore. itll hurt if something gives Tony
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I have adapted the same tactic.If i dont want to shoe a horse for someone for any reason and just tell them im not really interested,they always try to talk you into it in some way.Quote em a high price and that conversation shuts down immediately.
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65#s' is the heaviest pulling bow I've made,but I'm always thinking of hunting weight type bows to be used in the field and woods.A 100# recurve.Yikes!!!!.I swear.Does not sound like an enjoyable afternoon of shooting to me at my age.Talk about taming a piece of wood down.That's about it.Each to their own I say.
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I have a recurve about 64" long intended as 150# or so started about a year ago, should be dry enough to finish now. My back isn't up to pulling it on the tree though. I don't think I would even dream of letting anyone shoot it besides me as a foot bow though.
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Back in the day a "little 225 pound Osage" footbow shot about half a mile. Bowmaking logic says it's all possible.
Where's Adam Beck? ;)
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about 80 or 90 is as heavy as I have made,,
150 sounds doable in a straight bow, but recurve sounds little scary
I agree that the heavier the bow, the wood has to be very sound,,"Perfect"
doesnt take a perfect piece of wood to make a 30# bow,, but get it up there and the tiniest flaw is the biggest explosion,,
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String tension on a 150# warbow is impressive, on a recurve it would be scary
The guy is in your state Steve. Would you like his e-mail address? :)
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Was there length/draw length criteria?
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Never been asked to make a heavy bow, Marc. I've been asked to make bows for sale but always said no thanks.
Jawge
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Had to make a 100# bow for a gentleman in Washington..... I did not enjoy the build or the shooting.
I don't think I'll do another for a long time.
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I'll still make warbows but the prob' is getting clean wood and I can't shoot 'em in.
I'd hate to try getting a heavy recurve up to first brace, it would be a nightmare.
Del
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String tension on a 150# warbow is impressive, on a recurve it would be scary
The guy is in your state Steve. Would you like his e-mail address? :) Mark, Nope!
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He was looking for a 30" draw. He said he already had a 135# fg recruve, I guess that will have to do.
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I know this one big hispanic guy that has been shooting over 100# recurves for 3d shoots and normal target shoots. He also has a 30" draw. I wonder if it is the same guy.
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Im with you Marc. Wouldn't even want to attempt a recurved flat bow that heavy. Not even a thought! If I was forced? It wouldn't be cheap.
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HOLY UNDERWEAR!
If I made a 150# bow out of White Oak, which I've been using a LOT of lately, then at a 28" draw length, and a 70" NTN length, that would make for a bow that is 0.57 inches thick, and 4.92 inches wide... Now THAT's a monster bow.
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I know this one big guy that has been shooting over 100# recurves for 3d shoots and normal target shoots. He also has a 30" draw. I wonder if it is the same guy.
Is there any kind of logic for this or is it just a macho thing?
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HOLY UNDERWEAR!
If I made a 150# bow out of White Oak, which I've been using a LOT of lately, then at a 28" draw length, and a 70" NTN length, that would make for a bow that is 0.57 inches thick, and 4.92 inches wide... Now THAT's a monster bow.
I made several white oak cross bows years ago that started off at close to 300# at 24". They were about 76" long and about 5" wide. They were built as recurves but I ended up leaving the curves on as dummies and nocking the bows toward the bottom of the curve. They ended up taking horrific set and loosing close to 100# once they were shot in.
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I know this one big guy that has been shooting over 100# recurves for 3d shoots and normal target shoots. He also has a 30" draw. I wonder if it is the same guy.
Is there any kind of logic for this or is it just a macho thing?
The natural strength range for people encompasses this sort of weight. If it's just as easy for this guy as it is for a normal person to shoot 50, why not?
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I have not made a bow heavier than 70# yet. I would like to make a warbow just for the learning experience. Might even be fun to try learning to shoot it. But I have a hard time understanding 150# recurve. I would do the same with such a request as you Marc, simply ask a price that reflects the level of cursing involved with the build. :)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPDj8fxwlZo
Yes, I know it's a glass bow but it gives you an idea.
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Good for ONE thing Pat. Shooting paper or dirt.
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Nah. It would shoot through a car door and nail a bad guy. Not a bad thing these days.
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I know this one big hispanic guy that has been shooting over 100# recurves for 3d shoots and normal target shoots. He also has a 30" draw. I wonder if it is the same guy.
Sounds like the guy Steve
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Nah. It would shoot through a car door and nail a bad guy. Not a bad thing these days.
Zombies maybe?
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so if the target was something like this, what would you use?
I have a young man in the neighbor hood that wants to try it primitive
http://peninsulaclarion.com/news/2014-05-15/sohi-senior-bags-brown-bear-with-a-bow
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I started another watbow out of elm I got from pearlie but opted for a lower weight so I would enjoy shooting it.
That guys shoulder isn't gonna like him later in life. I hope he does his stretches
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Pope and Young killed Grizzly with selfbows of around 75-85 pounds. Many would say that's more than necessary.
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If a guy wants to shoot a 200 lb bow,then i say have at it,as long as hes not sayin i hafta shoot it ;)
If hes buggin others to build it for him and they dont want to,then i say,pick up some tools and get to wittlin.
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Doesn't Big Jim build them that heavy often enough?
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Pope and Young killed Grizzly with selfbows of around 75-85 pounds. Many would say that's more than necessary.
good point Pat, did they use stone points?
(I forgot to mention that part)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPDj8fxwlZo
Yes, I know it's a glass bow but it gives you an idea.
I've seen a guy who has never shot a bow before, pick one up, draw it, and then let loose with the wrong hand. On a weak bow, it made his nose bleed... On a bow like that one, it would drive him into the ground like a tent peg.
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I'm new to primitive and bow making (really new) but I'm not a stranger to heavyweight bows. I regularly shoot 70-85. 75 being my favorite weight. I had a 102 FG longbow I recently sold. It was fun while I owned it, but couldn't justify keeping it around as I didn't shoot it often enough.
When I first started shooting traditional, I started with 40lb bows. This was at the recommended advice of many. I used to think there was no way I could shoot over 60lbs. Then one day a friend showed up with a 70lb longbow and I said what the hay. I tried it and was surprised that I was able to handle it. It was all down hill for me then. You never know till you try, right?
I'm planning on parting with almost all my FB bows, to start the making process. I still need some more equipment to get up and running and I intend to make bows in the 30-100 range for fun. I figure if I'm capable of shooting these weights, then why not make them. I'm sure there will come a time when I cant. Untill then, I'm going to lean forward in the saddle and enjoy it for all its worth. I don't plan to do this to sell bows or make money., but if I had a friend ask for a 150lb recurve, sure I'll attempt it. But thats me. I like to try new things and challenge myself. The gentleman that asked for that bow will find someone to make it for him eventually. It's pretty cool to think that he had the confidence in you to make a bow for him in that weight. Not many people will make one that can handle it. I'd try it, but that's just me. I'd just want to see if I was capable of doing it. If I tried and didn't succeed, at least I'd know what I was capable of.
It's all about enjoyment.
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Well Able, I've made a lot of heavy weight bows and 150# wouldn't be the heaviest I've made. I started turning them down when I was diagnosed with Osteo in my shoulders a couple years ago. I have no doubt I could make this bow, I'm just not interested....enough
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What would be your material choice? Sinew or not?
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I suggested Plum backed with Maple
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Marc, sorry to hear of the diagnosis. Gotta keep health first my friend. Sounds like you have had an amazing track record. Anything over 100 in my eyes is very impressive. Over 150 is astonishing. I hope to have a quarter of your experience. Be well.
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well maybe I could hit 150#, if I started with a 12 foot stave,, and then piked it a bit :)
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I can count fingers on one hand how many guys could actually pull this exact bow off that this guys wants. Aint many folks around that can build a 150# R/D Static recurve all wood bow thats gonna last.
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How many strands of B50 would you need for that string? >:D
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Sounds like it would be an interesting challenge to make a recurve like that.
Out of interest what dimensions would you use for a bow like that Marc? Length and width? I mean for initial 'rough out'.
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Sounds like it would be an interesting challenge to make a recurve like that.
Out of interest what dimensions would you use for a bow like that Marc? Length and width? I mean for initial 'rough out'.
Such a bow could probably be made as a selfbow with the right piece of wood but I would have made it as a composite. Plum heat bends well, is very strong, and is a very elastic wood and those are some of the reasons I would have used that. The bow would have been a DR (deflex recurve) and the length would be around 65" overall for a 30" draw. Limb width to start would be 2", backing of Maple 3/16" thick with the Plum core 3/4" thick. Probably a bit overkill in dimensions but I've never made a recurve this heavy so better to start that way.
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And you'll need a hydraulic press to get it braced >:D
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I've just sawn up some labernum logs that were in my stash and got some sweet straight grained lams. I don't have any plum but labernum is also highly elastic......
I might have a crack at make this - just for giggles.
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The reason I would have used Plum, or Osage, instead of Yew is because of the density of the wood. Top grade Yew would work well but it would have to be high density wood and I don't have any that is suitable. A bow made from lower density wood would have to be made physically bigger in size
This style of recurve would be my choice for such a bow
(http://i.imgur.com/OUlHA2W.jpg)
I may think about making such a bow when I have nothing better to do
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A bow of that style even approaching 100# would be a sight to behold. If you ever get the urge to build something in the 100# range or even slightly less I am sure Joseph the hungarian flight shooter would love to shoot it.
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I would just make it a self reflexed static, no deflex or splice.
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Steve
For regular flight or broadhead? Is 100# his limit?
In some ways Pat a straight handle recurve would be harder to make. First of all the bow would have to be made longer and second it would be harder to brace especially if it had a fair bit of relfex.
A tough build anyway you look at it
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The length would depend on the size and angle of the recurves. I don't think it would have to be longer than 64-65 inches if the width was right and the statics about four inches long.
I would smoothly crown by sanding ridges down and sinew back unless an unusually smooth back was available. Even natural ripples and waves on a clean back would be risky.
Not too many woods actually grow that way.
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I wouldn't make a 65" recurve for a 30" draw unless it was sinew backed and I wouldn't make a sinew backed bow for someone unless they specifically asked for it. Too much maintenance with sinew for most people
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Steve
For regular flight or broadhead? Is 100# his limit?
In some ways Pat a straight handle recurve would be harder to make. First of all the bow would have to be made longer and second it would be harder to brace especially if it had a fair bit of relfex.
A tough build anyway you look at it
Mark, I think a bow like that would perform equally as well for broadhead or flight.
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Steve
I think the major problem would be the string. Such a bow would have extremely high string tension and the need for a natural string in Primitive Flight would make it next to impossible to keep a string together
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What a bow!!!Just my observation here are there any flight bow shooters that use an Egyption style design bow?Angular so to speak.
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Steve
I think the major problem would be the string. Such a bow would have extremely high string tension and the need for a natural string in Primitive Flight would make it next to impossible to keep a string together
Would it have a higher tension than a 180lb longbow?
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Beadman, I have played with the angular bows quite a bit from all wood designs. I have a huge problem making weight with them and when I do make weight I have a problem with stability at brace, for some reason they really want to twist. Bows like Mark's in the above picture tend to be about the fastest from what I have tested but even at that the differences in well made wood bows is not huge. The amount of reflex seems to be the biggest single factor as long as mass is kept under control.
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Steve
I think the major problem would be the string. Such a bow would have extremely high string tension and the need for a natural string in Primitive Flight would make it next to impossible to keep a string together
Would it have a higher tension than a 180lb longbow?
A 60# recurve like the one above has higher string tension than a 100# longbow
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Steve
I think the major problem would be the string. Such a bow would have extremely high string tension and the need for a natural string in Primitive Flight would make it next to impossible to keep a string together
Would it have a higher tension than a 180lb longbow?
Have you heard any word on how Joe Gibbs is making out with that 156 pound(I think) composite Adam sent him?
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What a bow!!!Just my observation here are there any flight bow shooters that use an Egyption style design bow?Angular so to speak.
Jaap Koppedrayer had an Assyrian type bow at the salt flats a few years ago.
It seems that the best design for flight is still the reflex/recurved bow. Even if deflex strains the wood less a reflex still seems to hold the edge in the best shots a bow has in it
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Have you heard any word on how Joe Gibbs is making out with that 156 pound(I think) composite Adam sent him?
Not sure. He's playing around with recurves in the 190lb range at the moment, along with something similar by Hilary Greenland. What was the bow Adam made? F/G or natural materials?
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A 60# recurve like the one above has higher string tension than a 100# longbow
Didn't know that. Streuth!
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Have you heard any word on how Joe Gibbs is making out with that 156 pound(I think) composite Adam sent him?
Not sure. He's playing around with recurves in the 190lb range at the moment, along with something similar by Hilary Greenland. What was the bow Adam made? F/G or natural materials?
All natural.
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Sounds amazing. He's not had it at any shoots I've been on so far, but I'm probably shooting with him in December so I'll ask him.
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there are apperently many horn bows in turkish museums calculated to be over 200lbs draw!!! , I think they even got them up to 300lb...warriors developed such good armour in those days, bows had to be strong to stop them.....think about that!!!