Primitive Archer
Main Discussion Area => Flintknapping => Topic started by: Locogear on November 08, 2015, 02:53:04 pm
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Hello everyone, I've been trying to flintknap bottle bottoms but it's a LOT harder than I thought it was going to be (unless I'm just missing something). So I was thinking about breaking the rules and trying to cast an arrowhead either out of lead or aluminum or maybe copper? I've no idea. Obviously those metals will probably only be a one or 2 time use but that's ok. Has anyone experimented with this or does anyone have any suggestions?
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I prefer knapping old TV picture tubes to bottle bottoms. The glass is about an inch thick, which makes any curve easy to remove. I can never seem to get a flat point from a bottle.
As far as homemade metal points go, the best raw material I've found is old stainless steel spoons. Pound them flat and cold forge/work them into the desired shape and sharpen. I'm always running into people with silverware they don't want, but even if you had to buy a few they're cheap at the bargain stores. If you're dead set on casting, look into bronze alloy casting grain/chunk. They have a bunch of different ones to choose from at most jewelry supply companies. Aluminium might be okay, but I wouldn't bother with lead or copper as are pretty soft. Sterling silver would probably work as well, but you can't beat stainless for durability.
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for homemade arrowheads, there's nothing like old saw blades. you just heat them up and let them cool slowly to temper them, then cut out your arrowhead, them put it back in the fire and get it glowing red or orange and then take it out and quench it in water or oil. after that just put it in the oven at 400 degrees for a few hours and then sharpen em up and haft away!
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Those are great ideas! I love it when other people do the thinking for me 😆, do y'all have any pics of these pieces? Saw blade or spoon arrow heads?
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Another thing, if I do decide to cast bronze, would y'all happen to know anyone with a knapped arrowhead I could use for a master in making the mold? 😁
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Locogear - as for casting a point, I think the weight would be very important and since it is metal, the sharpness of the edge is a consideration. Stone points have naturally sharp edges because of the way they are made and a metal cast would be inferior. Your metal will weigh more than rock and if you are going to make the point from metal, why not just make contact era points from saw blades as suggested or do like the Comanche and other historic tribes and use barrel hoops or comparable metal. It just seems a little odd to use metal for rock. I am sure you can find many examples of iron points in the historic record, but just be aware that most probably didn't fit modern width requirements by your state's game laws.
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bottle bottoms are easy and the hard things about them teach you to knap and flake just about anything. the glass is alot easier to remove than a lot of flint ive worked. but it teaches you all the right angles, the pressure, how to deal with flat edges, convexes, how to run flakes a long long way, ect.dont give up. heck its a free resource. its like going to college on a scholorship. lol Tony
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Any more picture tube glass is just as free. The trash men won't take them. I see them laying every where. I picked up three small ones today in fact. The glass breaks as easily as bottle glass, but there's more to start with. When I first started my points always came out way smaller than I intended. The extra glass the picture tubes provide helps out with that.
There are vids on utube on how to break them safely. They are under a vacuum and will implode if you don't equalize pressure before hitting them heavy.
If I have time later, I'll post some of my spoon points. I finally managed to knap a hunt worthy point last week so hopefully I'll transition to stone points by next hunting season.
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If you are after cheap boradheads you may want to google for "trade points arrowheads"
there is also a youtube vid on spoon arrowheads
You may also consider bone arrowheads
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,36300.0.html
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All that sounds great, no I haven't given up on knapping but in the meantime I want to start hunting right away :p and yea I know to make the metal light enough I'll have to use a soft metal that won't hold a good edge, but y'all have given me some good ideas to think on, I appreciate all the help
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Have you thought of the bottoms of coffee cups (ceramic). Ceramic is pretty cheap. Thrift stores, and free samples of ceramic (tile) from home improvement centers. Different varities of cheap material available. Ceramic lids from toilets have a lot of material also.
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I've thought about ceramic toilet pieces, but never really thought about mugs. That's a good idea too. My trouble is controlling my fractures, I always end up taking off too much
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i was a handyman most my life. ive made bookoo toilet points lol
Tony
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for homemade arrowheads, there's nothing like old saw blades. you just heat them up and let them cool slowly to temper them, then cut out your arrowhead, them put it back in the fire and get it glowing red or orange and then take it out and quench it in water or oil. after that just put it in the oven at 400 degrees for a few hours and then sharpen em up and haft away!
You know I have done the same thing but I would never post it here in
FLINT knapping cause it ain't.
A bunch or metalurgy in ' Around the Campfire'
Great folks over there also.
Zuma
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for homemade arrowheads, there's nothing like old saw blades. you just heat them up and let them cool slowly to temper them, then cut out your arrowhead, them put it back in the fire and get it glowing red or orange and then take it out and quench it in water or oil. after that just put it in the oven at 400 degrees for a few hours and then sharpen em up and haft away!
You know I have done the same thing but I would never post it here in
FLINT knapping cause it ain't.
A bunch or metalurgy in ' Around the Campfire'
Great folks over there also.
Zuma
Yea that's my fault. I posted the topic
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I don't look at it as a fault/blame issue.
We all do it at one time or the other.
I think it's a cool topic.
Thanks for not taking offence.
Zuma
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Eurocents .... the 1 , 2 and 5 one are actually copper plated steel and it is quite easy
to make arrowheads out of them only using a vice , a file and a saw
usually bottle bottoms are bend in two ways and maybe it is easier to get the lentile
form out of some glas bent in only one direction ...
i want to restart my flint knapping and i think best material would be bottle glass bent
in only one direction and the arrow heads to be as broad as the little finger ...
(why longer than 1" or 3/4" ?)
try again and don't forget to sharpen your pressure flaker from time to time
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Maybe I'm just making it too hard on myself lol, I use antler for my pressure flaker and an oak billet with a copper cap, and a flat head screwdriver for my notches. Maybe I should invest in some PVC and copper nails and stuff?
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steel nails are alright and useful for that purpose ....
until know i never found out why copper should be used ... i doubt it
is a requirement ...
sharpening and the right technic is more important
there is this guy who calls himself "allergic hobbit" who but the ishi stick between his knees
fixed the position on the flake and then with the other hand he beat with a useful piece of wood
(he made videos and put that on youtube)
if you can make large and long flakes exactly where you want them with ease ....
that should be it ....
it is said , some people hardly need to pressure flake ...
some say and wrote that grinding out the shape before is almost like cheating , because
the flakes so easily want to come that way
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I see, I'll have to look him up and see how he does it, thanks
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Allergic hobbit is our own jackcrafty and has lots of helpful stuff at the top of the page, i think even some links to hi vids
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We have all been where you are. The next step is to NOT GIVE UP! Pursue flintknapping for the art form and challenge, not for the cheapness of producing arrowheads. This will inspire you more. Research and watch youtube videos. Then get some plate glass maybe coffee table or something. Cut glass to shape and work on pressure flaking. Dont expect to get hunting points just yet. Ive been knapping for 3 years and just now am satisfied with hunting quality points.
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Long, long ago, in an issue of Primitive Archer far, far away....
There was a guy that wrote an article about casting tool steel replicas from original knapped stone heads. They were heavy as boat anchors, but if you like high F.O.C. arrows, how wonderful is that? Still, the cast metal edges cannot replicate what the fractured stone edges do.
Keep knapping whatever you can get your hands on, even if it is only a stale soda cracker! Consider it homework, paying your dues, or earning your keep. When your points are good enough, the deer is not going to refuse to die because it was toilet tank ceramic and not aboriginally mined Glass Buttes obsidian!
And don't forget to post pics for those of us that can't read.
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If you have a way to grind hard material, there are lots of things that you can use that are historically accurate like slate, seashell, antler, and bone. You can also grind down flint flakes. And you don't have to knap the edges if you can get them thin. All these have been used in the ancient past. They might not be legal for hunting but they look cool.
On the modern side, floor tile might strike your fancy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byKXPn1BDzI
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25 Years ago when I started knapping no web. So getting rock was't so easy as now.
I was always out and about doing something. I hit every old dump I could find. That 100 year old glass lots big bottles and jugs lots colored. Older glass was made and tempered differently you get longer smouther flakes. Where todays glass flakes come off short and fat.
I made 100's of glass heads. Shot 2 does, 1 buck and a jake with glass heads. lots rabbits ground hogs all with glass heads.
TRY THIS
I've made trade points for 15 years. Cut out of old cirlur saw mill blades. Old 1095 steel is a good blade stell. You can aneal,cut,out harden (add carbon) and temper in your home over to about 53,54 RWH about as hard as wallmart knives. Soft enough that your adverage joe can sharpen easy'ly.
I like 16 th inch and use the HOWARD HILL 3 TO 1 1 wide 3 long. Through the years I ended up with 1 1/8 wide, 2 3/4's long. I've killed a dozzen bucks and as many doe's. Not sure what they weight. I hav'nt weighted a head,shalf,spined a arrow for my self in 15 years.
Were not shooting 300 fps at 70 yards.